Kleeman ECU tune, 3.5L C300
 

I searched the forums (using the search and advanced search) for about a week and found that the informaion on the ECU tune for this car was all over the map with little real info and broken links....

I did find Kleeman and after a quick review found they are in Colorado Springs, I live in Denver so this is good news.
I emailed Kleeman USA and recieved an imediate response form Cory. He informed me that the motor was the same as the C350 and they could achieve results slightly above what a 350 produces and fix the dreaded throttle lag. I immediatly scheduled the tune and went to their facility last Friday. They offered to Dyno my car before and after the tune but my car is the 4 Matic and we were unable to test it. The fact that they wanted to do this gave me confidence that they could deliver what they promised, I was not dissapointed....
The tune start to finish took about 2.5 hours. The second I hit the throttle for the first time I knew this was money well spent. Throttle response was immediate and the car surged like never before off the line and pulled hard to redline. Shifts are crisp but not harsh. The car is completely different after the tune and 100% better.

Was it worth $1,295? Absolutely.
Does it void the warranty? I do not care
Is the milage better? Does not matter, not to me anyway
Should you do it? Only if you want a more enjoyable driving experience and a faster car.

Kleeman knows what they are doing and will take good care of you. The link below is to the Kleeman site, USA HQ
http://www.kleemann.dk/KleemannUSA

I do not have experience with other tunes for this car but can tell you without hesitation this one works.
I received information from one of the other tuners recently listed in a post here, 12-15 HP, $695. Laughable.

Thanks for your post, I was considering Kleemann and this gives me more reason to go with them. Just wish I wasnt required to send in my ECU...

EDIT: And I definitely can sympathize about the lack of REAL information issue. When I first registered here, it was nearly impossible for anyone to acknowledge the potential of the 2013 C300. Glad to hear a story about this engine, definitely the first I've heard and I hope to hear more.

Glad it helped, send me a note if you have questions. Sending in the ECU and few days without the car would be worth it to me. The difference is not subtle. From what Cory at Kleeman told me Mercedes limits the throttle opening, it does not open to 100% on the C300 like it does on the 350.

How difficult was it to locate and remove the ECU? I assume Kleemann must have some info packet they send you.

I might wait until Kleemann releases a K2 kit, looks like it will contains some exhaust upgrades (headers?).

How would you describe the tuned throttle response? The lag would be great to eliminate, but have you noticed anything else?

Not difficult at all, it is located on the passenger side of the engine compartment. Took maybe 2 minutes. I am sure they can send you instruction.
I inquired about the headers when I was there, nothing yet, no ETA. Net 10-15 HP
I will not do exhaust/headers myself. This is a commuter car for me and the ECU tune made it enjoyable to drive.
The best way to describe the throttle response is that it feels like a real gas pedal, one connected to the car mechanically and faithfully relays your input. The drive by wire, electronic nanny is no longer apparent. Response is immediate and linear.

If indeed it is the same engine as the C350 (and i believe it is) do you think you are in the 300 HP territory by doing this? :naughty: Wasn't the C350 motor rated at around 302 HP?

John

Cory is a good guy to work with at Kleemann. A few years ago, on my 2005 C230, I went there for a Kleemann Boost kit and an ECU tune (I installed Kleemann headers prior to this visit). He was done in about 4 hrs and the car retained gas mileage and performance was greatly increased from stock.

I look forward to installing headers and having the ECU tuned when they become available to the M276 for my 2013 C350 Coupe:y

The Kleemann Website says 330HP from a tuned M276.

But I wonder if this tune will give us 330HP.

John

I doubt even the C350 gets 330HP with the tune. But whatever potential the C350 has, the C300 has the same.

I agree with JaredP, same potential. I really wish I would have been able to dyno the car and have an accuarte number for you guys. I am certain it is over 300, my guess from research and seat of the pants and owning alot of performance cars over the years is 310-315 ish. I think 330 is a realy strong number, maybe but certainly not at 6800 feet! Would like to see a dyno pull for a rwd car.
My wife has an ML550 that used to smoke this car, it cannot catch it now. Neighbor has an S4, 333 hp, hmmmm. Will let you know if it happens.
The snap off the line that is sorely missing stock is really fun. I am no longer hesitant to jump into traffic wondering if the throttle will do anything near what I asked. I had the tune done with a few thousand miles on the car, my only regret is the few thousand i did not have it.

Wow, this really sounds like a night and day difference. I think Kleemann is going to have a lot of fun with this engine, with the number of vehicles it powers (C, CLS, E, SLK, GLK, ML), and it being based off the Chrystler Pentastar V6, there is going to be a big demand for aftermarket performance.

I was considering Kleemann and this gives me more reason to go with themhttp://tiny.cc/m7qg2w

does Kleeman have anything for the C250?

Thank you so much for the response. I will contact them for sure. :naughty:

John

You can get an exhaust header and a ECU tune from them:y

Turbo engines generally have a much higher potential for power gains. The plug and play JB+ tune is $280 with +20hp +40tq gains.

thread of the year right here

thanks for posting!

in reality, 1200 doesnt seem like a lot of money, its really not for a solid tune

Let me know if you guys get the tune and your thoughts

I spoke with Corey over there this week and i feel confident with these guys. They seem to know what they are talking about, i will be sending them my ECU next week. I will report back once i receive the ECU back.

John

Good to hear. I will consider it again in the spring, snow will be on the ground here soon, won't be able to take full advantage of the tune for long!

aaaaaaaaaaargh damn you!!! :smash::smash::smash: you got me wanting to do this so bad now. I know exactly what you mean when you're in traffic, especially off a light and some *****box is pulling ahead of you and it's a full 2-3s later before any power kicks in. Is there any way for the dealer to know you did this mod at all? I love that this engine has so much more tuning potential than the previous one, but then we lost the ability to use handheld flasher.

According to Corey the stealer won't know :naughty: unless they need to get into the ECU.

John

Yes, Corey told me you would have to tell the dealer that you had the modification installed for them to find out, otherwise they wouldn't even know what to look for.

man!!

I wanna get this tune for my 2013 C300 as well! but would the ECU tune be compatible for a canadian edition car??

Yup, only differences in the states are equiptment options. Mechanically, they are the same car.

sweet!!! can't wait to get the ECU tune done!!

I received my ECU back today and let me say WOW!!!!!!! I have had upgrades on other vehicles before but this one is really worth it. If you have a 2013 C300 this is a must do.

Timed the car 0-60 4 times:

1. 0-60 5.7
2. 0-60 5.9
3. 0-60 5.6
4. 0-60 5.7

And the response in the accelerator is immediate.

Well money spent. Call Cory @ Kleemans.......

John

That's great to hear, those are some pretty quick 0-60 times too. I'm hoping to hear many more good reviews like yours! I'm wondering... my car currently can't rev to redline in park, with the tune can you rev all the way up to 7k?

No, can not rev to redline in park. Can however redline in drive :D:naughty:

John

Hmm... I'm thinking about getting the K3 upgrade on my 350 O_O

Good to hear you are happy with the tune. It is not subtle.

Ecu location...
 

Where exactly the ecu located on 2013 c300 ???? And how to remove it ???

As per Cory "The ECU is located on the side of the engine- picture attached. The ECU is bolted to a plastic carrier which is held on the engine via studs in rubber grommets. Simply remove the black plastic cover that covers the top of the ECU, disconnect the 2 plugs and pull the ECU out and up with a mild amount of force"

P.S. End result is typically about 315-320 HP and about 300 lb/ft. of torque.

See here:
http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/E...250CGI_M271EVO

They claim the C250 tune on the M271 EVO results in 245 HP / 276 lb.-ft of torque.

Quite a bit more costly then the JB+ tune, but nets in more power/torque as well.

I just shipped mine out today, hopefully will have it back before the week ends. :zoom:

I am thinking about this tune also.

Now, does the tune alone really void the warranty?

Yup, but the MB tech would need to be a computer engineer to tell the difference. I'm willing to bet ECU software is written at a very low level, you would need to be an absolute expert to tell the difference between modified and non-modified ECU software.

Does Kleeman offer tunes for the 2010 c300/350 and what kind of gains would it produce? Also can 4matic versions be tuned or does that even matter?

Tons of companies have tunes for the M272, search around. They only seem to offer maybe a 5-10% increase in HP/TQ. 4matic generally doesn't matter.

Thanks Jared, i'll take a look. I was wondering if you'd get the same dramatic results you guys are getting with the 2013's, it would definitely be nice.

The reason the power increase is so dramatic is because the engine in the 2013 C300s are just detuned C350 engines. The M272 tunes (MY '11 and below) are typically much cheaper, and can be tuned and un-tuned via a handheld tuner.

Why local tuner says this amount of gain (50hp) is impossible. Anyone have dynos?

Because you drive a 2011, 3.0L C300.

Nah. I got a 2014 C300.
Got another answer?

Your profile says 2011, but as far as I know Kleemann is the only company that offers it. The OP said he contacted many company's that have 10-15 horsepower tunes for ~$600. But Kleemann is the only company with the full retune, for whatever reason.

For those of you who got it, how's the mileage been like? just wondering, is the c350 tune (if one exists) the exact same thing as this one? so C350 would get ~20 hp bump only...

C350 tune nets same result power. I would imagine mileage is the same if you drive the same on either tune.

Because your local tuner has no clue. Add the numbers yourself, it's simple:
2013 + models have the 3.5 motor, Mercedes detuned them to 248 HP. The C350 (which has the same motor as the 2013+ C300) has 302 HP. Kleeman is simply tuning the engine to its capabilities + 20 or so HP.

I have done this tune and speak from experience. Best tune i had ever experienced.

Again, no offense to your local tuner but i would not trust anyone touching my car except Kleeman.

Money well spent...

John

Someone needs to post a 0-60 video... So much hype.

AGREE! I just had mine done, definitely worth every penny, much more responsive, one more happy customer. Thanks Cory! :zoom:

Do you guys think it would be worth it on my 350? The hp and torque increase is nice, but the throttle response is what I am hoping would improve the most. I think its 700$

I'm pretty sure it's the same price, but a lot of people seem to like the improved throttle response.

I had my E350 Coupe tuned by Jerry @ Eurocharged. HP went from 302 to 327 Hp 330 torque at a cost of $699. Great tune for the money..highly recommend Eurocharged.

Eurocharged is one of the companies that offers one of the laughable retunes for the detuned M276. I've asked them about it via email and posting in threads and they have never responded. They claim 10-15 horsepower on a 2013 C300.. lol

This is great! I wish I had another ECU or another vehicle so I could send mine down without being without a vehicle for a week or so!
Is there any danger of there not being enough air as my C300 only has one air intake compared to a C350 having two.

They both actually have only one, the only one with two is the C63, but it looks like they all share the same part, with a blocker on the one side.

Looks like only pre-facelift C350s have dual air intakes.

48 hour turn around time on the ECU shipping and tuning. I like it thus far and it was worth an upgrade BUT am and finding it hard to believe the claim of 320hp. I would have to drive a C350 to truly compare.
You would think that 20% or more increase in power would be extremely noticeable.

I have a 2013 C300. Sent my ECU to Kleemann Wednesday night and they got it Thursday. I received it back on Friday at 10 am. I was without the car for one day.

Now, to give my review: First, I have never modded any car, ever. It kind of pissed me off that we had the same engine as the C350 except for electronic tuning. I came from an Infiniti G35 coupe. The difference between the Infiniti and the C300 could best be described as having a hair-trigger gas pedal(G35) and driving a dump truck (C300). Since I bought the C300, I had a hard time driving the G35 without slamming my head into the headrest at every start. Both cars were comparable in speed, the C300 just felt slower because of the pedal lag.

I was out of town until yesterday, Sunday, so I put the ECU back in and drove around town. The lag was very noticeably better. I did some heavy acceleration 0-70 runs and shifts were crisp and it pulled really well. This morning, I did the usual workday routine. The car is effortlessly accelerating with much more throttle response. That lag is gone. I don't know if it is just wishful thinking, but I could swear that I don't have to push the pedal as far to maintain speed. I'm just barely touching the pedal. When I need to accelerate, the response is instantaneous.

Finally, with only one morning of comparison with my daily commute, I would say the gas mileage is very similar before and after. If you accelerate the same as before the upgrade, you will have the same mileage. If you accelerate faster, because it is more fun or because you can, your mileage will suffer. The problem is that, because it takes a lot less effort to accelerate faster now, it will be harder to keep the same gas mileage. I am not complaining!

I recommend the upgrade.

Does anybody have any idea if the car gets taken in for a sw ECU upgrade will this Kleeman upgrade sw be overwritten by the new one?

John

Thanks for the heads up Cassman. Where abouts are you located that you got it there and back so quickly? Unfortunately, I'm across the northern boarder, so I'm not so sure that I would actually get it back quite that quickly.
What is it like to get to the ECU? Most I've ever done is a CAI and throttle body on a Grand Am...so I'm in new territory here...

Pull off the front of the engine cover - it pulls right up. You will see two connector covers on the right side of that cover before you pull it off. The ECU is under those. The ECU is aluminum and has a black plastic guard. I called Kleemann and they walked me through taking it off. It took about 2 minutes. Putting it back on was even easier since I knew how it came off.

I live in Illinois. I overnighted the ECU via FedEx. They overnighted it back. Simple.

I just received a response from Kleeman to your question. They stated that, if a dealer update caused me to feel that the power went away, they will reprogram it free of charge except for shipping costs.

Just saw this thread, what would be the benefits mainly in HP, GPH, reliabilty, ect, in installing the Kleeman ECU reflash on a 2009 C300 Sport ? Thanks for any suggestions.

Correct, so be aware that ANY time a dealer does an upgrade on your car, you will have to resend the unit back to them.

This is the only thing i do not like about this sw upgrade. There is a bulletin for all 2013 C Class 4Matic LI07.08-P-056245. Apparently there is a new sw update for the MU control unit.


The TSB mentioned above is for a fault code related to “Implausible data received from control unit “transmission”, stored in engine control unit.” The fault code is U040208. This fault basically says the ECU has received implausible data from the transmission control unit. It is a transmission signal being sent from the gearbox controller to the ECU.


John

I'm looking for this upgrade as well.. I found a Kleeman dealer in Houston, TX. One question is how does this affect warranty?

Technically it would void it, but it's unlikely that a dealership would have the expertise to examine firmware. Do you have a 2013?

Nope I have a '09 with an extended warranty

Most of the information in this thread is about the '13 with the direct injection 3.5L (M276) engine. The '09 has the 3.5L non-DI (M272) engine. So the power increase won't be 50+hp, but you'll still end up with >300hp.

Thanks for the info. That's what I'm looking for. It's a commuter car so it'll be a better drive and throttle response.

What's the price range on the k1?

Does anyone know of any tuner besides Kleemann that does this yet? It's getting pretty pathetic that there is no competition. I'd gladly pay the $1300, but geez, you'd think that Mercedes is paying off the smaller tuning companies to release 10-15HP tunes in hopes of keeping artificial class differentiation between the C300 and C350...

MPower in Houston, TX is giving me a pretty good deal on ECU with exhaust upgrades and smaller tunes. It'll give me close to 50 HP. Try and find a reputable tune shop and get better air intake filters and exhaust tunes. Not too much of an improvement but it will make the drive better lol.

I feel like this thread is full of misconceptions... I don't think you're talking about the same engine as I am.

I don't know if it's a misconception, or a lack of clarity between what can be done to each engine...whether the M272 or the M276. It took me a long time to sort through the crap just to get a clear idea of what can be done.
Judging by the other 'tuners', it seems that a max increase of 15-20HP is the most a '13 C350 will get from anyone as this is its performance max without doing other things like headers and down pipes and such.
Suffice it to say that the $1300 or so for the Kleeman K1 tune is really the only viable choice for the C300...you're just not going to get a big enough increase on the C350. But from what I've seen, they are the only ones that give a target hp for the engine, rather than just a vague increase and enhanced throttle response from all the other offerings...

Not trying to be rude, but there is a couple different kinds of posts that keep popping up... People with 3L M272s saying it's impossible for a C300 to be tuned to 300hp, with no idea what an M276 is, People with 3.5L M272s looking for information in the wrong place, and People who flat out refuse to believe a 70 horsepower tune is possible, ignoring the circumstances surrounding the 2013 C300 with the M276.

So for those still confused, we're discussing the 2013/2014 C300 with the 3.5L M276 DETUNED engine with 248hp and it's capability to be tuned to ~320hp. Not the 3.5L M272 in pre-facelift C350s, not the 3.0L M272 in the pre-facelift C300s.

Amen brother!

I own a 2012 c300.... 3.0L M272 right???
My question to you guys is, how much HP and torque would I gain with this tune? Also, is it just a matter of disconnecting the ECU, ship it to Kleemann, they send it back, put it back and that's it??? not extra parts or wiring needed??? And finally, what is the cost for this? I saw $1300 somewhere?? :nix:

I guess my main goal here is to get quicker response with the gas pedal lol

Thank you in advance!

You will gain no power, because the tune isn't for your engine. There is considerably cheaper tunes for the M272, and almost every tuning company has one.

ok thank you!!.. all I needed to know lol

some of the posts almost seem like plugs for kleeman...is there a general conclusion that you can get 330hp and 300lb/ft out of a 2013 c300 4matic?

No. There has been 4? people claiming to have tuned their M276 in this thread, but no dyno yet. The conclusion is that you can get greater than 2013 C350 power from a 2013 C300 with a tune.

There's something about this claim that doesn't make sense to me. Kleeman's hp claims are at the crank, not the wheels, right? Kleemann claims up to 330 hp on a m276 tune, at the crankshaft. MB stock c300 claims 248 hp at the wheels. If we assume a 15% loss due to the driveshaft (between the crank and the wheels), that 330 hp turns into 280 hp at the wheels, and that is 22 hp less than the 302 hp for a 350. Is 15% a fair assumption?

I'm a little nervous about warranty issues depending on how obvious the tune would be. If MB hooks up star diagnosis, will it tell them that the ECU has been altered? Or would they have to specifically pull the ECU to tell? Is there a flash counter on the ECU?

I did the tune. Pretty damn confident that I'm no where near 300hp. I had the chance to drive a stock 2013 and then mine. MAYBE a 20hp difference. Not super impressed, mostly because I was guaranteed by Kleeman 300-320. When I emailed my thoughts to Kleeman I received no response.

That's really disappointing, I had no idea yours was that bad. I think I'll have to reconsider my plans of getting this done, unless kleemann comes out with some sort of guarantee, because there is still no official info about it on their website, and this car/engine has been out for a long time.

@WhyAskWhy
The only claim kleemann has made is 330hp for a C350 tune. If you factored in drivetrain loss on that you would net less than MB claimed horsepower on a C350 (306). It doesn't make sense that kleemann would offer a tune that decreased power for $1400. The only thing that doesn't make sense here is that C300s are (apparently) not getting the same power, even though they are mechanically the same car.

Kleemann ECU Re-mapping - 2 thumbs up!!
 

After searching this forum, Renntech and Kleemann seemed to be the most common positively reviewed tunes. With the former at $1,295 and latter at $795, I went with Kleemann for my 2009 C350 Sport.

One Kleemann dealer quoted me $1,195 and another $795 plus $95 labor, both plus 10% tax. I called Cory and found you didn't have to go through a dealer.

I found easy instructions on this forum for removing the airbox and pulling the ECU (a 15 minute job for a first-timer). I overnighted it to Kleemann in Colorado Springs. They shipped it back the same day. I put it back in (now a 5 minute job).

The car fired right up and all I can say is it was totally the right thing to do and worth the time and cost. Throttle lag is gone, when you punch it it really takes off and responds well at low speed or freeway and climbs to 6,000 rpm effortlessly.

I'm not interested in a street racer, just a high-performing sedan and the Kleemann ECU re-mapping was just the ticket. I am a happy camper.

BTW, if Mercedes should have a SW upgrade for the ECU and the re-map is over-written, Cory said they would do a re-map for the upgrade for $150. And if you ever want to return it to stock (though I can't understand why anyone would), they save the original ECU file and can restore it.

Your engine is an M272. This thread is about the M276 engine. Having said that, I'm glad you felt the tune was worth it. Also, it's good to know that they can flash back to stock in case there is major warranty work that is needed.

From my perspective, it's hard to spend $1,295 on an ECU tune that can void the warranty unless it really makes a great improvement in performance. Maybe in the future if they run a special like they did with the M272, I'd consider it.

I'm going to have to wait Kleemann releases some official numbers and guarantees for the M276 in the C300. Probably that and a price cut will convince me to tune my M276.

I think Kleemann's is opening back up tomorrow (their website says they were closed for 2 weeks for the holidays). Hopefully Corey will chime in. I'll send him a PM.

^ that is correct. And I have already received a response from Cory (much appreciated).

I will keep posted on a resolution or if I was completed incorrect in my testimony.

Thanks.

I don't meant to hijack this thread and if it is not appropriate I apologize.

Since you are on the subject of tuning I was sent this by a friend.

http://oetuning.com/blog/?tag=c300

Looks like you can get the unit and flash your own stuff without sending it in.

I have no used it or have any knowledge of its results but figure I would post for those seeking options.

Might be nice to flash it back to stock for those warranty repairs. :)

The M276 is not tuneable via handheld OBDII tuners, bench flash only. The article doesn't make it very clear. However, that tune will work on the 3.0L M272 in your 2012 C300.

OETuning's ECU flash for the M276 is a bench flash and claims +12 hp/10 lb-ft of torque.

Yeah. Pretty weak. I hope Corey can post here and clear some things up.

Did you get any additional followup from Cory?

Hmmm...I think you may be looking at the more conservative GDI tune. There's 3 tunes for the M276 OE Tuning offers. Realistically you are looking at +23hp/+23 lb-ft torque increase with the OE tune.


Model C350 GDI 3.5
Series W204
ECU MED17.7.x
Year 2011-
Stock Peak HP 302
Tuned Peak HP 314
Stock Peak 273
Tuned Peak Torque 283

Model C350 GDI 3.5
Series W204
Year 2011+
Stock Peak HP 302
Tuned Peak HP 329
Stock Peak 273
Tuned Peak Torque 295

Model C350 3.5
Series W204
ECU MED17.7.x
Year 2012
Stock Peak HP 302
Tuned Peak HP 325
Stock Peak 273
Tuned Peak Torque 296

+23hp/+23tq over what? Our M276s are outputting 248hp. This thread is about C300s.

Edit: This is what we are talking about: http://oetuning.com/mercedes-benz-c300-3-5-gdi.html

Ah....then yes, I completely understand your frustration. On 1 hand, OE-Tune defines stock and tuned power and purposely have a separate tune for both models...whereas with Kleemann, you are pressed to believe 1 tune fits all (which by what I have read so far, I'm not convinced is true).

I've been following this for several months, and there has been very little advancement in what we know about the detuned M276. Kleemann and this thread initially made it sound very clear cut, they're the same engine, same power.
In addition, not one tuning company has explained the difference between the M276 in the C300 and the C350 (If there even is one). I've asked several, and have received no reply. Hopefully MrMeth got some information from Corey.

I've been following this thread as well. But if the above claim is true, why not go for the tune I originally listed above (albiet the description says C350) where tuned peak HP/TQ were clearly listed?

Also, if there were mechanically identical, why would more than 1 tuning company offer separate tunes for each? I'm honestly hoping the best for you, however a big a part of me feels it's similar to holding on to a dream.

I talked with Cory, and he confirmed that the engines are 100% mechanically the same, in displacement, compression ratios, etc. The only reason numbers aren't available is because Cory doesn't have access to a AWD dyno, and doesn't want to throw around arbitrary numbers.
I'm confident that the tune gets you beyond C350 power. Cory responded to me within an hour with a very detailed email, citing many happy customers, and only one so far who did not get the power he expected. OE hasn't replied at all regarding why there is a difference between tunes for 2013+ C300s and C350s. Something weird is going on there.
My money is with Kleemann this summer.

That's good to hear. If you end up getting the Kleemann tune, I look forward to hearing your thoughts. I'm going to hold off for now given the weather, and hopefully, there will be a sale at some point.

Not that I'm the only unhappy customer to ever get this tune but I am def a bit disappointed. If you live in Colorado (where Kleemann is) you can find an 4wheel dyno. I don't feel a 60hp+ gain. One of these days I will get it dynoed in NY.
It's your money do with it as you please. Still happier with the car then stock motor or my 2011 or 2008 models. So that's a plus.

PS Cory mentioned to get the latest SW ECU upgrade from MB, haven't check with them yet.

Maybe I'm missing something, but if you get the latest software ECU upgrade from MB, won't that wipe your tune?

Perhaps he means have the latest software version prior to kleeman tune ? :nix:

How can you check to see if you have the latest version and what is the latest version ?

Exactly. I'm just gonna call MB service and provide my vin

Would you be able to share these details? I too was in the very same boat, but in the end, the one with the local distributor won my business. I am still curious about the alternative however.

About Engine specs: More interesting:

Thanks JaredP.

In that case, why wait till summer? I'd do it ASAP!

I can't get traction with the power I have on ice. I'll get a set of good summer tires and tune it when the roads are dry.

I have same ecu tunning that kleeman offers for $900! With warranty if anything should go wrong or if I am not happy with tune. Throttle response is insane! I will be taking the car in to run some dyno testing to see how efficient the vehicle is. With ecu tune I am getting about 2 mpg better and no more throttle lag. I also recommend getting a sprint booster for the finishing touch.

How do you have the same tune that Kleemann uses if you aren't a Kleemann distributer? Also, are you talking about a tune for the M272 or M276? Did you apply this tune on your 2008 C350?

JaredP, if you end up getting the Kleemann tune when the weather improves, please share your impressions.

It is an alternative ecu tunning from a registered dealer of Kleemann for our beloved M272 engine. I got a chance to drive it yesterday. The engine increased in torque, very smooth crisp shifting with impressive redlining. I also was impressed by how I didn't need to have in the sport drive mode and still feel the boost. They are making the final tweaks today and I should have it by Monday. I have custom mandrel bend exhaust 2.5" pipe, high flow cats, resonator delete, x-pipe with stock mufflers. The mufflers I had on before were insanely loud. To much "rice". I am still getting the Kleemann headers or unless I find an alternative that reliable and performance. Will probably have to retune ecu again possibly but doubt it.

Enjoy your M272 tune. It sounds great.

This thread is more about the M276 3.5L engine tune.

sry. my bad. M276 engine is badass!

Today I took my car in for the 1st schedule service so they gave me a C350 coupe as a loaner. I have my Car ECU done by Kleemann. Amazingly the stock c350 is not even close in throttle response, it feels like a lazy ass doesn't want to move. I definitely would recommend Kleemann. Don't get c350, save $$$ get c300 then get Kleemann!

That's really interesting. I forget that the throttle response benefits from the tune are pretty significant as well. The lag in my C300 is starting to get on my nerves too... All the more reason to tune.

Yesterday I raced my friends E350 from a green light, the Kleemann tuned C300 pulled away from the E350 with ease...

You should do it soon, snow won't be around long, let her rips or should I say let Kleemann rips :zoom: Happy driving and Gold Canada!

What year was the E350? I think 2013+ have the M276 as well.

2014. Same engine, 302 (or so) hp.

there are k2 and k3 kits available for M272 V6 3.0 3.5 ALREADY
 

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JaredP (Post 5761174)

How difficult was it to locate and remove the ECU? I assume Kleemann must have some info packet they send you.

---

which engine u talking about, if it is M272, kleemann K3 kit is already available which includes. checks this links http://www.kleemann.dk/Performance/Engines/350V6_M272

2230 280 300/Tuning solutions available upon request
350 k1: A costum made ECU upgrade. Up to 305 HP and 375 Nm (278 lb-ft) of torque.
350 k2: K1 + a set of stainless steel tubular exhaust headers and downpipes. Up to 320 HP and 390 Nm (289 lb-ft) of torque.
350 k3: K1 + K2 + a set of super sport camhafts. Up to 340 HP and 400 Nm (296 lb-ft) of torque.

Thanks for the info, but this thread is about the M276. As far as I know there does not exist a C300 with a 3.5L M272, so I'm not understanding where all the confusion is coming from...

sorry my bad, anyway it also works on OLD c300 with m272 3.0

I just spoke with Brandon at Kleemann, and get this: they can program the ECU so that the car defaults to sport mode on startup.

could u plz give me his email address, I send email to kleemannusa, but no reply. thanks

I don't have his e-mail address. I spoke to him on the phone (719) 473-6441.

I thought the whole point of this ECU mod was to unlock those hidden 50HP and increase throttle response so that the car performs just like S mode even while on E.

For those that have the mod, does S mode bump the performance up even further?

I don't know why you'd want to make this change if you have the mod done, it would make it blaringly obvious that the car has been modified. It would be hilarious if someone did this, brought the car in for service, tech notices it starts in S, wonders what's wrong, can't figure it out, so reflashes the ECU.

I could be wrong, especially since I haven't had my ECU tuned yet, but here's my understanding. The main differences between E and S have to do with starting in 2nd vs 1st gear, and transmission shift points. As far as I understand, E vs S is entirely the transmission. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, if I understood correctly, star could set the car to start in S by default (although I'm not sure if that would require developer mode).

If the ECU gets flashed back to stock, Brandon said he would reflash the ECU and just charge shipping. And if I prefer to have my car start in S, the possibility of a tech noticing is not going to dissuade me at all.

The ECU tune increases the throttle body opening maximum to fully open (like the C350), adjusts the ignition timing, and markedly decreases lag. The C300 has the same engine as the C350, but MB artificially limits the degree to which the throttle body can open. Reversing that limitation and adjusting the ignition timing is how they get the extra hp and torque.

Assuming the car DID NOT have the "Dynamic Handling Package" then YES.

Did a tune from MPower for my 2009 C350 w204.. BEST DECISION EVER!

Added high flow filters as well.. throttle response is hella better and you can feel it pull really nicely from 2-4 gear. OTD price $650. Tune was $400, filters should have done myself would have saved $80.

Just to clarify (again), this thread is about the M276 engine. Your engine is not the M276.

Sorry, got excited and posted in the wrong one! :zoom:

Just an update... I had the tune done last fall. I still love it! I usually only drive in Eco mode for my daily commute but every once in a while, when merging or pulling on to a road with heavy traffic, I'll put it in sport mode. It is a beast. I have not regretted doing the tune one time. If you are on the fence, I recommend it. Very noticeable difference. Even in Eco, much more responsive throttle.

Curious to know what the net gains are from doing this ECU tune aside from the throttle response. Given how sensitive our transmission is just wondering what, if any, long term impact would result from this change.

Not saying it's a bad idea just wanted to know a bit more.

cassman, what sort of difference would you say there is between eco and sport with the tune? With a stock ECU, the only difference is that eco will start in 2nd from a dead stop, and will shift at lower rpms. If you floor it in eco, it will still start in 1st and have all of the power a wide open throttle will give you. Is there more power in Sport with the tune?

I can't say there is more power in sport than Eco. I guess it is just that with the added power, starting in 1st makes the difference. I just never floor it in Eco. All I can really say is that the car is completely different with the tune. As I said in my earlier post after the tune, I came from an older infiniti g35 that really had a responsive throttle and gas pedal. Before the tune, I was really bothered by the unresponsive pedal and throttle. In my other car, I could press the pedal about a quarter inch and stay at cruising speed on the highway. In the pretuned c300, it took effort to push on the pedal to maintain speed. Another example is when I would be driving the untuned c300 and would switch back to the old car, I would snap my head back because the g35 pedal and throttle was so much more responsive. Since the tune, I don't have that problem. It really is just a completely different car. I really don't know what else to say.

There's eco (on vs off) and there economy vs sport mode. Eco shuts off the engine when possible to improve fuel economy. Economy mode starts the car in second gear and upshifts earlier compared to sport.

I just got this tune. When the car is in economy, it still starts off in second gear and there is still a little lag before the car gets moving. It's not really throttle lag. The best term I can think of to describe it is gear ratio lag.

When the car is in sport mode, there is minimal throttle lag (and the car starts in first gear). When the car is in economy mode, the lag is much improved and what still exists is likely just due to the gear ratio.

The power output when you floor it is much improved. Mercedes kind of neutered our engines in the stock C300.

My buttometer is not finally calibrated enough to say exactly how much the engine output is improved, but the difference is not subtle. 300+ hp is about right.

Yes I did mean economy by eco, which was pretty clear from my explanation of the second gear start. I wonder how much control Kleeman has over power in economy or sport, maybe they could leave economy detuned at 248hp, and sport at 300+hp, if you wanted that for whatever reason.

I would agree with your assessment of the difference.

Has anyone gotten this tune in the Toronto area? Wondering if there are any local places or at least Ontario-based that do the Kleemann tune to the M276 engine? Thanks in advance!

There is a "dealer" in Oakville Ontario, not sure if they have the equipment to do bench flashes. Sounds like most people were shipping their ECUs off to Colorado Springs.

http://www.kleemann.dk/Contact/Deale...0-c969c1116370

EDIT:
Looks like you're in luck.

http://www.oakridgeauto.com/kleemann/

Is it even worth considering it for a c350? Sounds like very minor gains + throttle response. At least at that price.

Minor? I guess it's all relative. Keep in mind however that an ECU tune is the ONLY mod (so far) that'll get you any gains (at least for a face lifted C350). Anything else will require major investment...so much so that it would be foolish to not just get a C63 at that point.

I think this quote from Cory is the most relevant, "We did a tune for a client in, I believe it was NY who told us has both a C350 (stock) and a C300 with our software- he raced them and his C300 wound up being faster- not by a large margin, but it pulled on his stock C350, which suggests our power estimates are accurate."

You're right, very minor gains + throttle response. Only you can decide whether that's worth $1300 to you.

+1

Right, but its not like they even have a dyno to prove the gains past a c350 yet. A C300 seems like its obvious. We may be talking 10-15hp here for a c350 and introducing issues with the dealer reflashing it and reliability concerns of course. If it were a couple hundred bucks I'd consider it just for the throttle response and more aggressive shift mapping. I never expected the c350 to be a big HP car though. If I wanted that I would have picked something else.

Well there are other ECU options as well, Kleeman is not the end all of ECU tunes. Part of the confusion with the Kleeman tune is users claim the peak HP/TQ to be the same for all M276 engines regardless if it's a C300, C350 or E350.

Compare this with other tuners who SPECIFICALLY have different peak values for all 3 (example OE Tuning).

Make MERCEDES BENZ
Model C300 3.5 GDI
Year 2012+
Stock Peak HP 248
Tuned Peak HP 271
Max HP Gain 23
Stock Peak Torque 251
Tuned Peak Torque 274
Max TQ Gain 23
Modification Description Bench Flash


Make MERCEDES BENZ
Model C350 3.5 GDI
Year 2012
Stock Peak HP 302
Tuned Peak HP 325
Max HP Gain 23
Stock Peak Torque 273
Tuned Peak Torque 296
Max TQ Gain 23
Modification Description Bench Flash


Make MERCEDES BENZ
Model E350 3.5 GDI
Year 2012
Stock Peak HP 302
Tuned Peak HP 314
Max HP Gain 12
Stock Peak Torque 273
Tuned Peak Torque 283
Max TQ Gain 10
Modification Description Bench Flash


As for the tune costing a couple hundred bucks...well my tune was just that. I never expected the c350 to be a big HP car either, however depending on the user, cost is relative.

These guys do the tune, but they still ship to Colorado Springs. Was quoted the same gains (up to 330HP and similar torque gains as others). 3 day turnaround and about $1,300 USD plus shipping fees.

damn, for $1300 you'd think they'd include shipping. If they're giving 3-day turnaround, you can expect to add another $100-200 just for the overnight shipping both ways. Is there some super exclusive tools required to do this flash? I wonder why even their resellers need to ship it in. I'm still surprised nobody has dyno'd this thing yet.

Thought someone might be interested in this.

I bought a Bluetooth OBDII scanner, $15 off Amazon.
I did some WOT pulls to see how much the throttle opens. Here's what I got:
Attachment 446860
Attachment 446861
Attachment 446862
Attachment 446863

So the widest I was able to get the throttle to open on a stock 2013 C300 was 86%. But only very briefly...
Tried this out on my '98 deville and was able to get 100% throttle opening, so I doubt it's just the device.
If one of you with the Kleemann tune has $15 bucks to spare, I'd recommend grabbing one of these. They plug in via OBDII by the hood latch, provide some pretty cool info.

This thread is full of new usernames plugging kleeman, especially when skepticism comes about. I think the m276 tune is scam on kleemans part. Niether Cory or any representative has come on here to set any claims, they're all through other users. Theres been at least one true review saying it was a 20hp gain max, which sounds reasonable considering a gain to 320hp would be very noticeable. I also think kleemans claim that they don't have access to an awd dyne is BS. Its soo easy for them to charge a boat load of cash for their copies of ecu software and claiming lofty gains on forums like this is a great catalyst for business. watch out for these guys. :popcorn:

I know I haven't posted much, mainly because I don't have a lot to contribute and haven't modded my car (other than the ECU and changing the door pins). I mainly benefit from other's experience (e.g., what to buy to perform a topside oil change, and that it's pretty much impossible to put a rear view camera in my 2014 with audio 20).

I'm a real customer and was skeptical before putting down a lot of money for Kleemann's ECU tune. I stand behind my prior comments on the tune. I think my car now puts out over 300 hp and the lag is markedly improved. Whether or not that's worth the high price tag is a personal decision. Before making a decision, I spoke with Brad on the phone and was impressed with his technical knowledge.

I'm kind of offended with the fake review accusation you put out.

It worked for me :-)
 

Following instruction in this forum, I pulled my ECU in about 15-20 minutes (if I had to do it again, it would be 5 min). Sent it off via FedEx to Cory who turned it around in a day. The cost was $699 or 799 (I can't remember and it wouldn't have mattered).

Transformed the performance of my 2009 C350 Sport from a Buick to a BMW. The transformation wasn't complete until I had the dealer re-flash the TCU back to stock, so I could re-pattern it to the way I drive (my car must've been previously owned by a little old lady).

If you want a rocket, get a C63 or M3. If you just want more pep in a C300 or C350, the Kleeman ECU re-map is well worth the modest cost IMO.

PS - don't consider the job complete without re-patterning the TCU. Have the dealer take it back to stock, go to a paved untravelled road, wind it out from 0-65 mph for 50+ shifts in each of "S" and "C" modes.

I tend to agree. You're charging $1300 for a tune that you can't even back up, meanwhile every other tuner hasn't given out numbers close to this. Really? they're in the tuning business, I assume they have many other contacts in the aftermarket car modification business, and none of them has access to a dyno? or is the excuse they can't find a C300 to test with? something fishy :nix:

These are some of the sketchy users I was talking about, both joined in Dec 2013 with low post counts and nothing but good to say about about Kleeman. I love how the first one gives directions on the whole procedure, he did the same thing a couple pages back in this thread. He shows his face when skepticism comes about.

Whyaskwhy have you ever owned a car with over 300hp before? How would you know for sure your car is making over 300hp? "I think my car now puts out over 300 hp" doesn't sound very reassuring. 248hp to over 300hp would be very very noticeable. Keep in mind 300hp is Audi S4 territory.

And whyaskwhy, why would you be offended by my accusations? You have nothing to lose if Kleeman's reputation is questioned? Or do you?

And wasn't the original claim over 330hp for a c300 4matic? thats almost exactly Audi S4 numbers, no way:rolf:

My opinion on HP numbers is put up or shut up. If you don't have dyno numbers you shouldn't be going around making claims. Butt dyno is notoriously unreliable and people who have just plunked down a grand for a tune have good motivation to convince them selves that they got their money's worth. I'm especially skeptical when you claim large gains off a tune on a non-turbo car.

Edit: If nothing else some time slips pre and post tune would give some data points to estimate HP gain and that's something anyone can do.

I've sat in a tuned c300 with kleeman tune and I don't think the Kleeman tune made the c300 faster than a stock c350, or at least my c350 with intake and exhaust. Also, even with a de-tuned m276 engine in the c300, I seriously doubt that just because your using the same tune for a c350, that with tune a c300 is going to gain 60hp+ from stock 258hp+ to 320hp+ (which is c350 with same tune). :crazy: There has to be other limitations that MB did to the m276 besides wide open throttle adjustment and retarding the timing to the c300.

I doubt that the tune is even giving the c300 + 42hp to even out with the stock c350 at 306hp. I am about to buy the OE tune for my c350 which they advertise at 24hp+ and 25tq+ which should net 326hp and 298tq. I will ask my friend with kleemann tune to do a friendly comparison with me. I seriously doubt his kleeman tuned c300 will compare with my OE tuned c350. If the m276 tuned c300 is really putting down c350 power or better than c350 stock numbers; then everyone should buy a c300 and order a c350 tune. :nix:

It's hard to take you serious when you can't construct a post that doesn't make you sound like a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist. I am starting to doubt you are even reading these posts, because the post you quoted from ikkyu2 isn't even regarding a tune for the M276 engine, he is discussing a tune for his 3.5L M272.

You don't need a high post count or an old account to be credible. The vast majority of users (99%) use forums as an information resource, and do not post regularly. It does not mean they are not credible when they decide to share their experience with others.

As far as Kleeman's reputation goes, I'm pretty certain they are not very concerned about it being tarnished. They have been tuning Mercedes exclusively for 25+ years. No other tuner has that kind of experience or expertise with Mercedes.

I would like to see Dyno results as well, and find it odd that no company has released official numbers. Until they are released, all we have is customer testimonials, which Kleeman has no reason to fabricate.

I'd be very interested in this. If you friend is driving a 2013+ C300 with the Kleeman tune, it could really dispel a lot of the rumors. Please try this out before and after you OE tune your C350, take videos if possible. What intake are you using? I wasn't aware of a commercially available intake for the M276.

I will... It's my sales guy from MB. He bought the C300 for his wife and has done a few modifications to it. Next time I am out his way or if he drives his wife's car to the dealership, we will find an open stretch of road that we can safely test out our cars.

Kleeman hasn't made any public claims. Everything has been through their customers testimonials

The circumstances surrounding this engine are obviously different. Same model engine, same displacement, same exhaust, same intake, yet 58hp difference between the C300 and C350? I would be skeptical if someone told me he tuned his N/A 4banger prius from 200 to 258hp, but this is very different.

I don't care how I sound, I'd like to know the truth and there is nothing in this thread that actually proves it. If I could get 330hp out of a 2013 C300 4matic, I will buy one tomorrow.

I was aware that he was discussing the m272 3.5, I never said anything on the contrary so I don't see how your point even matters. All it means is he wasn't here to discuss the 3.5 276, but just to endorse Kleeman, which he's already done in the same thread 5 pages back right after some skeptical posts

compare this to the post above:
It seems like the prices and selling points are coming right from Kleeman themselves. 2 out of his 7 total posts are in this particular thread plugging Kleeman

Yes, I agree, Kleeman is a credible german tuning company thats been around for 25+ years. However, I am wary of the USA intermediaries who've made lofty, hard-to-believe claims not directly, but through emails posted by random users. Its been a year since these claims were made and we still have absolutely no reliable evidence that Kleeman can make a 13+ c300 4matic more powerful than a C350. There are also no other tuning companies that make an even comparable claim.

A tune that actually gets 330+ out of a c300 4matic would be a hot item, and Kleeman USA would see that potential. If they actually saw that potential not only would they post here themselves, but probably easily seek out an AWD dyno, test it out and have evidence to back it up.

Nice catch. I am thinking I still had my c250 with bms intake. I have a BMC air filter in my c350. No intake.

He doesn't remember very well at all...

And look how much cheaper Kleeman is than Renntech!!

I'd be interested in this as well. A few key notes however....
Even *IF* the C300 produces the same HP as the C350 you still have to account for the weight and drive train loss of the 4Matic.

From a dig, the AWD-300 will have an advantage, but the faster your rolling start becomes (example freeway), the RWD-350 should get farther and farther away.

On a side note...
I would be too since a Prius makes well under 200 HP (I should know...I have one...well a Lexus version of it anyways).

Here is Renntech's tune for the 2013 C300:

C 300 BlueEFFICIENCY (W204) Stock Performance:
248 HP; 251 LB-FT

Modified Performance:
254 HP; 263 LB-FT

Gains:
+6 HP & +12 TQ

Price: $995

http://www.renntechmercedes.com/www/node/1148

Why can't they get 330hp???

$1k for 6hp!??!?!?!! damn.....

This isn't getting you anywhere.

If we're in the business of making baseless, tinfoil hat claims, I've got an equally valid one: Mercedes is paying off tuning companies to produce low gain tunes, in order to maintain an artificial difference between the engine in their C300 and C350 trim. Equally valid, equally baseless, equally BS.

Why doesn't Eurocharged have an M276 tune?
Why is this tune 4x as potent as the Renntech tune?

Who knows. Maybe because these companies have different knowledge of the engine, and different tuning capabilities as a result.

I'm waiting for facts. So far there have been very few, I have none of these engine tunes for that reason.

That is much more far-fetched than a tuning intermediary pumping up their numbers to make more sales.

Otherwise we shall wait and see...

There should be a statute of limitations for how long they have to post credible evidence or come clean...

This is hilarious since you seem to be the #1 cheerleader for kleenman in the absence of any proof of gains.

Very true, he's been here in this thread since the beginning promoting it. Probably one of the 6 puppet usernames used by Kleeman..

This is getting ridiculous.

I've been interested in the tuning capabilities of the M276 LONG before this thread, and long before anyone knew that kleeman was claiming they tune C300s to C350 power.

I made this topic 4 months before this Kleeman thread was posted:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ml#post5888792

Which you, WhyAskWhy, and OE tuning all responded to.

I also made posts in this topic 2 months before this thread:
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...4-matic-2.html

Of course, I will admit to being excited by the notion that I can get C350 power from my C300, but I have remained skeptical, waiting for confirmation and facts.

Wonder if there's been any updates at all from kleeman

any updates?

Can Mods just close this thread already? There will never be updates to this, ever. Just bickering and misinformation.

Stfu :wwf:

Lol sorry it's just I've read through this thread, every single post, and there is nothing but a circle jerk questioning not only the validity of posters claiming HP gains, but also calling out specific tuners who also say they don't wish to comment further while providing NO FACTS. This has in turn led to speculation, name calling, and other kiddy petty behavior that would be better suited for a Volkswagen forum. :beatdeadh:shakehead

Seriously read all the posts and see if you come out with any real information, there is none.

Kleemann updated their website. Kleemann headquarters is straight up claiming that the M276 engines in the C300 and C350 are identical, and listing the tunes as having identical gains.

Before, we only had speculation and a couple of emails. There was a lot of controversy because OE tuning claimed that the engines were mechanically different. They sent me a cease and desist via PM when I called them out to prove it. I'm really hoping that with these new claims that they have dynos to back it up.

I guess this is either another baseless claim, or OE tuning was false in their claim that the engines were mechanically different.

http://catalog.kleemann.dk/catalog/e...0-350-v6-m276/

question is, kleeman claims you get 330 HP and somebody pays for the ecu tune and somebody DYNO their car afterwards and its not 330 HP. Do you get your money back? They should also pay for the dyno fee as well :P

Not likely. Almost every tuner claims "up to xx horsepower" instead of "at least xx horsepower". In the best case scenario, with one of their technicians on the dyno, with correct fuel, air density, engine health, etc. you might get 330HP.

Can anyone translate this Chinese forum post? lol

http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thre...6643133-1.html

AWD dynos are not hard to find... Is there any other reason why someone with this tune and 4matic hasn't spent sub $100 to do a couple pulls at a speed shop somewhere?

Hell, could we start a fund and all chip in $5 to pay for said person to dyno their car for proof?

Stop talking sense... the tuning company themselves don't even want to dyno it...:crazy:

AWD dynos are not hard to find here in Florida. But I don't have a 4matic

I guess I am wondering, if I pony up a before and after dyno (there's a mustang dyno 15 minutes from my house) and the results aren't even half of what's claimed is a refund in order? Or half price on the tune?

Because having my brand new car down a week better account for something...

Argh.. Guess not for 2011. Only for 2012+?

I'll talk to them about a K1+ and see what they can offer. I have a '10 C350 though

Shoot me the money to DYNO and I'll do it.

Let us know about it. :)

Word, let's start a fund. I'll throw in $10.

i'll throw in $10 for dyno

I got email from Cory:

Hello Roger-

Thanks for writing!

We do offer an ECU tune for the M272 V6 engine found in your C300. The price is $795.00 and gains are typically +20-25 HP/TQ, improved throttle response and we remove the top speed limiter.

If you have any other questions, don’t hesitate to let me know.

Thanks again!

Cory Umemoto
Technical Manager

Sound great!

Hey man, No offense, but this thread is regarding the 3.5L C300 engine Kleeman tune (as in 2013+ models), not C300 tunes in general. I'm sure there are people interested, but this is not the thread to post it in. There are many many threads regarding various tunes for the M272 C300, but this is not one of them.

Fixed it for ya :)

OK it has been done. I took my stock 2013 c300 to the AWD DYNO and ran a baseline. Cory will be getting my ECU next week and i will post before and after test results for the tune. This should put an end to all the back and forth. Im hoping the test shows it blows the horse power up.
ps. baseline showed 253.7hp at engine 220.6 at the wheels

Oh thank god someone is finally doing this. I would have settled for timeslips at this point.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...0c53fef449.jpg


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...db2c5fb208.jpg

It may be important to note, i also did the magna flow x-pipe and resonator deletes. it sounds better, but i don't believe it actually helped any as the stock exhaust is pretty dialed in.

Excellent!

Plus we are twins, except the original owner of ours opted for black seat belts with the Sport+ package. What a butthole :P

I'm interested to see the results. I have a 2014 C300 4MATIC, and these numbers sound too good to pass up

Eurocharged is giving a similiar tune with the same HP result (up to 330 Hp) at $600!

From Eurocharged
"James,

The 2012+ C300/C350 share the same engine, and hence would get the same end power post tune. You would have to go to our Houston or Toronto location, or ship the ecu to get the tune performed.



Hope that helps.




Jake Pedersen

Eurocharged Performance
http://www.eurocharged.com/
(713) 462-1600 - Office
jake@eurocharged.com"

No offense, but prove it. Its all just words until someone has a dyno sheet or at least timeslips.

Supposedly it'll be provided in the future by the guy getting a kleemann tune. So if its proven, if kleeman can do it, eurocharged can do it.

Precisely. One guinea pig and if the results are positive I think tunes for the 3.5L C300's are going to be flying off the shelves.

where was the euro tune last week. I'm shipping mine to Kleeman this weekend, but it will cost almost double. that sucks. ps i need a front lip, any recommendations

I don't think there's many options for lips and I'm not a huge fan of the roundish styled one everyone has.

Either way better make a thread. Probably not the best spot haha.

On topic however I just saw Eurotunes post today however had heard of them prior.

I guess at this point, what I really want to know are the mechanical differences between the C300 and C350. Are there different valves? Pistons? Driveshafts? Stronger transmission? I am very concerned that Mercedes used the same engine, but lower-strength parts on the C300 to save money overall. If this is the case, tuning the engine for nearly 80 more horsepower could put too much stress on the components

My guess would be that they wouldn't do that. The money savings, would be in that they don't have to manufacture different parts. There wouldn't be any cost savings by making the same engine with weaker internals in one than the other.

The optimal solution is to have a plant producing an engine for multiple platforms that can be altered with simple software. Which appears to be the case pending results :y

I agree. I don't want to sound like an ass, but I would like some hard evidence indicating so before I put nearly 80 HP through the components. My buddy is a mechanical engineer and designs formula cars. He was pretty concerned when I mentioned this to him

nobody is forcing you to get a tune. if you don't feel comfortable, it's not mandatory. it already took years for someone to get a simple dyno for the tune, it's going to be difficult for someone to compare all the components of the c350 and c300. Unless somebody from MB or a mechanic that specializes in MBs shines in. :nix:

I mean i don't really push my car alot (rarely go over 3k Rpm), so i can really hold off on the tune until we get the proof. not really a big deal.

Meh, I may be biased but used to turbocharge Hondas putting out 400% power gains on stock engines with years of track abuse.

Would hope a modern MB engine can handle a 25% power increase. Besides the fact if the C350 engines are identical then really you are only taxing the engine a small % passed it's factory rating.

I can try and get a local customer in and do a dyno for ya

lol, I didn't realize you guys were craving power that bad!

Hum, maybe a group buy is in the works

we have been around the forums for probably 6 years now

I think of it the same way as the C63/E63 Same engine/ecu but for some reason the C63 is rated much lower, go figure. But, once tuned they have the same output

You should venture out of the W204 forum more! We are probably one of the biggest tuners on the board here and tune for some of the biggest names in the industry (underground racing for one) We have over 8000 cars tuned to date.

We don't spend a lot of time in the W204 non amg section, we probably should a bit more! Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

Give us a dyno sheet! and a group buy will be easy to set up. :bow: i'm already planning on getting a tune from you guys. putting the cash in order and the days without a daily driver in order.

sure no sweat. What exact car do you want to see? We can easily get one in at one of our locations and do before/after. Might take a day or two (or 4 for houston as we are having the new dyno installed now)

A 2013+ c300 4matic sport 3.5L v6
Plz and thanks :)

this help?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/11/2...tuned-3-5l-v6/

This is the one you should test. I'll just assume the c350 has similar results and there are a lot less of us.

That article says nothing about the internal components.

OK, so i am probably the least computer literate guy on here. If i send my pre ecu tune results to someone, can they figure out how to post them here? I will also have post ecu tune done weds next week.

There should be an attachment option in which you can post a pic of your dyno results :)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...dd824e585f.jpg


243 and 253 hp with about 12% lost before it hits the tires on the 4matic

Is your name steve? Can i call u scuba steve?:rolf:

What an odd power curve with the bump just before redline. This is the before dyno, right?

I got my ECU back today. It took about a 36Hr turn around time from when i dropped it off for FedEx. That alone is awesome. I got home found the box on my porch. and plugged it in. That takes all of about 2 mins. Seriously easy to do. I started the car and started it. Took it easy around the neighborhood and then went ahead, and as gladiator so eloquently put it. "release Hell". MAN. If any one was wondering if this tune is worth it stop. go to the wife and get permission. or do it and get forgiveness. This will be the best thing you ever buy for your car. It makes it a different vehicle. I liked the way it drove in Sport mode before. I love the way it drives now. Ive heard people say they can feel the difference a K&N filter makes. Wait till you run this tune. NO LAG! no wondering if the car will make the gap I'm shooting in traffic. I will go get it tuned this week. but i don't care what the numbers say, my butt dyno is HAPPY. shout out to CORY who took care of me, answered ALL my questions and made sure i didn't go with out my car when i needed it. AWESOME COMPANY.

Alright alright alright. Excited to see some dyno figures! But I'll take your word since you sound so ecstatic about the increase haha.

Nice.....maybe this will finally get Jared happy.

Positive news, I like that. Butt dynos are great but still, I'm in to see some numbers *eats popcorn*

I have never shipped anything before, how did you set up the overnight shipping? And how did u take out the ecu :) thx!

xjaymzzx, after removal i took the ecu and wrapped it in bubble wrap. put it in a box and went to fedex. I gave them the address to send it to and paid to have it overnighted. I also payed for an overnight label from that address back to my home and put that label in my box with the ecu.
as for removal. I am not a mechanic, i can change my oil, but thats about it. I got on youtube and saw what an ecu looked like. Silver square with ribbed sides. it has two big plugs stuck in the top. on the 204's it is on the drivers side of the motor. you must first pull off plastic engine cover. It has no screws or big tabs. just pull up. You will see the ecu. the two big cables plugged in to the top are held in place by clips that pull out one towards the front of car. one towards the rear. after pulling those clips, the plugs just wiggle loose. the ecu is hooked to a black metal plate. that plate sits on a few tabs that are just pushed in. no screws again this time either. you just pull it out. I did have to cut a zip tie that was holding another cable in place. but that was just for convenience.
I had never seen an ecu and removed it in about 5 mins. after it came back, i knew where it went and simply set it back in place plugged it in and off i went.
again i never used any tools to do any of this.
* should have the dyno done today if all works out time wise.

Awesome @ scuba357!

Cory and crew are top notch, glad they could get you sorted!

It really is amazing how much a simple tune transforms the car

Euro, will there ever been a handheld tuner option or is it a design issue from the factory that you guys are unable to flash via the DLC port?

Thx so much scuba. :) and hurry up on that Dyno! I'm too excited

we are working on it, just need a protocol to do it. It will be quite some time.

I have an e350 bluetec with a kleeman tune. Im taking it out to get service done and will retest 0-60. right now its 7.5

That eurocharged rep whos working a groupbuy together after dyno results come out , thats a good vendor =D remind me to look up your site.

however, ive SEEN kleeman dynos for the e320cdi. THe truth is, when you punch all our gear ratios and hp/tq curve at ALLL RPM RANGES you are not achieving the reported hp/tq EVER. Often, you for a fraction of a second operate at max output. Your car is rated at 3400/5000 rpms or whatever, but given 5 shifts at the same rpm (3000 or something) you will reach out of (in my case 210max hp/400max tq) at best, an average ardoun 175hp/380 through the whole rev range.

Im excited to see scubas dynos results.

I have a 2010 and with the camshafts and headers with the ecu tune you can hit 330hp; WHich is actually the output of the e400 biturbo. That sounds realistic.

I highly doubt the 2013 will reach 330 BUT i bet you, like all other kleeman tunes, they will get 25% across the rev range. So for 250/240, around 35 each. TO be honest, you should be kissing their asses to get that.

any update? been quiet for awhile

Sorry, I was called on a business trip to Cali. I will be back in Vegas on Friday and will run over to get the DYNo done. I did manage to put a new set of wheels on before I left.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...1521b82c91.jpg

scuba357, wheels are looking sweet.

Quick off-topic question if you dont mind: what percent tint do you have on your windows?
Looks really good.

Thanks!

i have a kleeman box for my 2012 bluetec; e350. really a e300. 2977~ ccs. Anyway; Originally you can find numbers posted for the 11-13 models that range from high 6s to high 8s. I dont believe 6 is possible, MAYBE with non run flats, unlike mine which has them.

So, every test ive done with my 12 with the KD Box ON.
(E mode 7.5)(7.8 for S mode) Best of 10 runs on the same street, no hills, 1000 ft elev.

The first runs I did with the kleeman box off, as it is now, had a fastest run in E mode of 8.1s;

Using a stopwatch. Not some automatic phone gyrometer app. Pedal Application Immediately pressing start, stopping after the digital mph says 60. Im pretty conservative with sprint times; I time most videos on youtube myself and if they say 5.7 im often at 6.5 or 6. For example; i think they start timing too early, and i hate those "rolling starts". All mine are strict

It sucked up about 5% more gas with the box on, and was a bit touchier to drive after months of it being in;

After removing it, it feels smoother and more controllable. They claim 25% gains across the rev line, id say likely not. But I do believe that the true function of these boxes is simply to unlock the full absolute pressure limit of the garrett turbocharger. For the record I called brabus many times and they said it doesnt work with the USA versions; Was very adamant to brush me off.

Its max abspsi is 30; mbz has it set to max at 22.7; Through the sensors this theoritcally allows for etc etc insert speculation here; They say it works better with a ecu chip tune as well; Bottom line, not a bad 700 bucks, but essentially not a physical power increase; All virtual. Not going to put it back in until my warranty is up and I can get the ecu chip modded too

Sounds like you're talking about an entirely different engine. This is the M276. NA v6, 3.5l. No turbos or anything. Turbos make a huge difference in what you can expect out of a tune.

right but its the same concept Turbo/Direct INjection = air fuel ratio changing. Same concept. same company, similar claims of power gains. Just giving you something to compare with

That is a staggering oversimplification. Changing boost on a turbo is more analogous to adding cams/headers/stroking a NA engine. IE you are actually changing the amount of air that the engine ingests. Both will have AFR and timing adjustments, but that's about where the similarity ends. In general you can expect way way more change out of a turbo tune than a NA tune. I wouldn't blink at a 25% claim on a turbo tune, but that sort of gain would be unheard of on a NA tune. The *only* reason why we are looking at pretty serious gains on a NA tune for the m276 is that its throttle mapping is restricted on the C300 m276. Just making the throttle plate open 100% is the vast majority of the tune we're talking about here. So, yah. Comparing a turbo tune to a NA is just ridiculous.

alright, well thanks for the lesson; but at least i had some data bout a purchased and tested kleeman tuning product.

I apologize fotr my ignorance.

Maybe you should buy one and try it for us genius

Butthurt much? Someone has purchased it, and we are waiting for their dyno results.

If I had a C300 I probably would have already. However I have a C350 and stand to gain 6-7% power if their claims are accurate. With that narrow of a margin a dyno is the difference between proving its worthwhile and a placebo. Just a throttle remap and more aggressive shift pattern can easily mask that sort of gain. Hopefully that's something that's going to be fixed soon. However I'm very much in the camp of not buying performance parts on "butt dyno" reports.

Go on guys :popcorn:

Its been almost a month, any updates?

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...babefb213b.jpg

Scuba Scuba Dude, where are you?
We have 248HP now.
Is Kleeman fooling me, and Land and Sea?
You got to run that dyno right now.

I've just pulled my ECU tonight. Shipping out of Calgary, AB tomorrow.
If anyone knows a dyno in my vicinity that can take a 4matic, please let me know and I'll put it up next weekend.

I seriously laughed out loud at this!!

I'm totally tingling now. Just posted my ECU priority post! I will probably checking the tracking every other hour...lol

In all honesty, I'm having a bugger of a time finding anyone in the Calgary area that can do an AWD dyno run...but I will keep on searching so we can have some difinitive proof. :D

I have been keeping my eye on this thread for a long time now. I am also patiently awaiting these dyno results.

I know the power the C350 M276 version makes. I have a 2014 C300, considering the results of the Kleemans tuned dyno graph I may be in the market to jump at this tuning. However if the results are bleek at best then I will pass and purchase a more powerful turbo'd C450 which should respond allot better to tuning when my lease is up in 2 more years. $1200 could go towards my down payment! but if Kleemans is not stretching the truth and they really can free up 330 hp then I may have to jump at the tune. Then we will just keep my car for my wife and I will get the C450 when she trades hers in next year.

You'll not have to wait long. Shipped the ECU today. Kleemann tends to ship back the same day the get it, but I'm up in Canada and Wednesday is a stat holiday. So I'll have to wait for Thursday sadly.
I'm booked in on Tuesday next week for a dyno run. Stay tuned...I hope to be able to lay to rest any misgivings. One way or another.
Thoughts and impressions Thursday evening...hard proof next week.

Awesome! Thanks for doing this.

DONT MESS WITH MY HEART GENESISKNIGHT. this ecu tune thread is like a bad breakup, keeps returning to break my heart!

Jaymzz...I'll not let you our my other fellow enthusiasts down.
I'm skeptically optimistic, but willing to give it a go. I can understand Kleemann not posting up anything as their posts would be questioned for authenticity regardless of their numbers good or bad...lol...but I can't leave my car well enough alone any longer.
When I post results next Tuesday, anyone can come check my car. There has been nothing done to it at all. Just regular maintenance and nothing less than 91 octane.

I've got a road trip from Calgary, AB to San Diego and Vegas next month...you know I've got to enjoy that west coast road any way I can! I wanted to go through Colorado as well and get it done at the source...but sadly, the time just wasn't available..and I would have to wait until I got there...lol

I wonder if they get it completed tomorrow, could I convince them to put it on a commercial flight instead of FedEx or something...hmmmmm...
Yes...I'm exceedingly impatient when I know something awesome is coming...hehe

If the results turn out to be as claimed then I think quite a few of us would jump on board. Could definitely use a nice power bump for the summer :)

My error is not finding a dyno soon enough, and my spontaneous nature just deciding to yank the ECU and send it off before having a baseline done to compare against.
I've found another AWD dyno in my city, so I will actually be running two different sets on two different dyno's...should give us a better indicator. We'll have to just compare it against the posted stock stats of 248hp and 251 lb-ft.

I have to give it up to Cory at Kleemann already. He's been super informative and has already given me some tips to get ready and how to run the dyno when the time comes. Looking forward to getting this thing going!

I have heard that with German vehicles the driveline has less parsitic loss than the age old "15%"

Even if we use 10% to be conservative that would be about 30hp lost.

We in all reality should see close to 295 - 300hp at the wheels with this tune. 93 octane air filter.. I would not see why those numbers should not be achievable based on the 330hp claim of kleemans.

based on the 2013 C300 dyno on page 10, that owner was seeing a 12% parasitic loss.

With that in mind and the numbers that Kleemans is claiming 330 - 12% = 290.4 whp

If the numbers are 260 - 270 then something is not right. IMO

So this is just becoming a comedy of errors...but I'm hoping my timeline will still stand regardless thanks to tomorrow being a Canadian stat holiday...
Turns out that Priority Post / Overnight delivery still heads over to the Memphis, TN distribution center before heading to Colorado. And just my luck, not only was I woken up last night by a thunderstorm...apparently Memphis got slammed last night as well which has delayed all of FedEx ops for North America.
...so instead of my delivery estimate of 10:30am June 30th...It's now listed as "NA"...

I'm a grown man...but I'm not afraid to cry...

Nice ! Lol

Just don't be "One of those guys" who goes to the dyno with an Air Filter that has 40k on it and never been changed or cleaned. :D

I personally use a K&N mainly for the convenience of washing it out in my laundry tub in the basement. I have read that some people have had issues with oiled filters messing with the MAF. Most likely those people were idiots and removed the POST FILTER. We all know there are 2 filters in a M276's air box.. the one should not be removed. If any oil droplets would ever actually come off of the K&N filter the post filter would take care of it before reaching the MAF.

I am not sure what Octane of gas they have in Canada these days.. I always use 93 octane here in Pennsylvania.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for as close to 300 whp as possible.. Would love to mess with some of those S4 guys.. My mothers Neighbor owns one. He went and purchased a honda to drive everyday and keeps his red S4 in the garage.. Wouldnt mind showing him my tail lights! Either way I do believe I will be in the Market for a C450.. If they actually made a 4 Matic C63 I would go that route instead but they dont. The other problem is a CLA 45 I am not sure 19" wheels would do very well in the PA winters here. If I got a C450 I would opt for the 18" wheels and put A/S 3's on it because it would have to be my everyday driver.. oh.. I dont believe i could get all of the options I want with out getting the 19" wheels on the 45.. they are in the studio package and the AMG drivers package with the AMG suspension.. which I would want.. minus the wheels. I would rather not have to purchase a 2nd set of wheels just for the winter time.

The gods are conspiring against us my friends!
...due to a storm around Memphis two days ago...apparently my ECU won't get to Colorado Spring until tomorrow morning...fully two days late!
So much for FedEx International Priority! Their Customer Service is less than spectacular...

The good news however, is that Cory is living up to his reputation (from what I've read) and he's been actively engaged in this. Actually sent me a message yesterday when they hadn't received the unit yet...and then again this morning making sure things were actually moving...lol...

Maybe they're just that good...
...or maybe they're just anxious to charge my credit card?
...I'm going to believe option 1...lol...

So...the story continues...please stay tuned!

Results come back positive I may do this tune while muh wife and I are in Maui end of this month so there's no down time with the vehicle.

Turnaround is so quick, you'd only be without for a couple/few days.
I'd have had mine back today if FedEx was capable of not screwing up so terribly.

Guys...we need to start a thread for ranting against delivery services. Or maybe just FedEx in general.
I have just found out that apparently, because of the storm around Memphis Monday night...my ECU is now on a truck (left yesterday) from Memphis to our friends at Kleemann in Colorado Springs.
Wanna know the fun part??? Because of Independence Day celebrations...Kleemann's is closed tomorrow, which is when the ECU is now supposed to arrive.

So even with the best of luck now...I don't get my car for my road trip in the mountains. I am now going to be doing it in my gf's Mitsubishi 4-banger SUV.
I can also only pray that Kleemann actually gets the damned thing on Monday...and is able to turn it around fast enough so that I get it in time to hit the dyno on Tuesday evening.

If I was a praying man...I'd be doing it right now...
...instead...I'm going home to drink.

My new black series hood was suppose to arrive this tuesday and be done by now. Now it wont be delivered till wednesday because the delivery company is backed up.

Was it FedEx?
Where abouts from and to?

...and do you have a link to the site you got the hood from?

Its from a shipping company called estes shipping. Its from cali to new york. I got it from ebay

Damn. My freedom is ****ing up the program :bsflag:

Sorry to hear man, hopefully it arrives by some miracle.

Ever spend the weekend in the mountains driving an SUV with a 4-banger.
...yeah...but the view was awesome!!

Good news is that the package will be delivered to Kleemann this morning.
Hopefully by 7pm tomorrow night (mst), you will all have incontravertable proof of what the retuned ECU can do for your M276 engine :)

I don't have an M276 but am anxiously awaiting thread updates :-)

LoL
...me too:word:

Confirmed my dyno time for tomorrow afternoon. All fedex has to do is not screw up royally again...lol

The time has come my friends!!!
Currently sitting on an old couch at Vex Performance waiting for them to clear a car off the dyno right now and then up goes Sadie!!
Yes...I named my car... Don't judge!!

Stay tuned all... It felt great on the way, but we'll let the numbers do the talking soon enough...

Cue "Also Sprach Zarathustra" for the mood...

Okay guys...I did get the dyno done last night.
I don't want to post the charts up here right now as I can't say that it is actually a true representation. In all honesty, I have no experience with dynos, but I do know that weather and altitude can affect performance. Having said that, from the weather last night and my altitude in Calgary, Alberta (3,500ft), I could expect a 12% loss in power even before you factor another 12-15% in the mechanicals.

What I can tell you is that it does 'feel' like it has more oomf...it's pick up is definitely more noticeable and it sucked my gf back in her seat quite effectively even while in "E". I didn't get a chance to drive much tonight unfortunately...so I'll have to really give it a work out, but it does feel quicker within the limited confines of afternoon traffic on MacLeod Trail...

My biggest mistake is that I didn't do a baseline pull prior to the tune so I would have a real basis of comparison.

What I plan to do to make myself feel better prior to talking with Kleemann are as follows:
1) I will try to find a stock '13 C300 that is willing to go up on the same dyno and pay for their run
2) I will get a hold of the other AWD dyno and do a set of runs on their setup and post those results
3) When I get to San Diego on July 29th, I will have set up a morning run to test performance at sea level as well.

Towards Item 1...if anyone is near the Calgary, AB area and has a stock 2013 MB C300, and if you can setup a time to do a run at Vex Performance (near Chinook Mall) I will pay for the run...just PM me the time. (Road trip from Lethbridge Jared??)
Towards Item 2...I will try to get another run set up at a different location later this week
Towards Item 3...You'll just have to wait until I get down to San Diego...

I want to give Kleemann the benefit of the doubt as I did not do a baseline run prior to the tune for comparison...so no bashing until I get that stock baseline and another comparison run completed to review. We'll call the results 'inconclusive' for the time being...

I'll PM anyone that wants to see the charts...including one with a comparison against a stock 2012 Subaru WRX STI...I just don't want post it up quite yet until I collect more data.

Blah, just post the charts. The guy who fell off the radar after getting his tuned posted his baseline run. I'll post it below, but this is all looking fishy. The first guy falls off the map, nobody from the Euro Charged group buy posted any quantitative results (and the original post was deleted), and now you seem to be unhappy with the results.

Here is the baseline from scuba357:

Okay...for better or for worse...here's the charts...
The first is just my car on 91octane, at 3,500ft altitude, and 24c (75f) running pretty cool. I'm only a little ways from the shop and the car sat for about an hour prior to going up on the dyno.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...45ea1872db.png
2013 MB C300 w/ Kleemann tuned ECU

While the numbers look stupid low to my un-dyno-educated mind...
Here is a comparison to a stock 2012 Subaru WRX STI...


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...011a801f88.png
Tuned ECU vs stock 2012 Subaru WRX STI

My understanding...and I'm still learning here...is that I'm naturally aspirated...aka...not breathing assisted. The Subaru is forced air...they get air shoved in. NA cars are at a disadvantage...and fall off the power faster than a turbo charged car when at altitude.
Also, research shows that Dyno Dynamics habitually rate lower (avg 15% or so) than other dynos...

So the fact that I'm only 8.7whp at the wheels off from a turbocharged 305bhp car...I'm actually pretty damned happy.

When I get a chance tonight, I'll go out and find a lonely road and record some 0-100kph times...

...and maybe show my tail lights to a couple S4's...hehe...

Let me know what you guys think...

Nice, thanks for the charts.

I did some quick googling for a dyno correction calculator and found one (http://www.bigdynodatabase.com/DynoCF.php). I put in your numbers and the correction for 3500ft altitude (26.3 inHg as opposed to 29.92 for sea level) and the corrected value came out to about 246 HP.

If you then multiply by 1.12 to account for drive line loss you get 275 HP.

If it is true that Dyno Dynamics habitually rate 15% lower than other dynos; multiply again by 1.15 and you get about 317 HP.

Needless to say, I am very interested in seeing your further dyno results on July 29th. :)


BTW, I have been stalking this thread for almost two years so it is nice to finally see some numbers coming in.

Thanks for the confirmation Laredo! Much appreciated!!
I have had almost no time at all since I left the shop last night to actually dig in get it all sorted. I only had the comparison to the STI to make me feel better...lol

I've been humming and hawing on this one for the past year and a bit. Kept meaning to get it done and then getting distracted with something else. Finally saw that Scuba didn't post his numbers and was inspired by Hellbent's song...LoL...

I have to say that all the things stated about Kleemann USA are true to nth degree. Cory was awesome with his patience for a relative newbie and provided great explanations for my questions.
When he didn't receive the ECU last Tuesday, he contacted me to make sure all was on the up and up. It obviously wasn't thanks to FedEx, but he kept in contact throughout the week to make sure they were ready for when it would finally show.
When they opened this past Monday, they received it around 09:45...and notified FedEx that it was ready to go by 11:45...Super fast turn around!

I got the ECU back yesterday with no issue. Got home and made my gf chuckle by not even changing out of my suit to go plug it in and try it out. Plugged in, replaced a couple ties to secure the cable that runs by the unit and cranked it up without even a little hitch.

Totally can't wait to get out and play!!!

How much was the tune

$1295/usd + $70 for return shipping.

Even being up in Canada, it would have only taken 3 days total from ship to return if not for issues with a certain delivery company...lol...

..

I am truly baffled how no one has gotten even close to the hp claims. Even putting dyno types, drivetrain loss, no vehicle is created equal, etc there's been tons of examples in the E46M world to know what stock power is give or take and then tuning. No way our vehicles vary that much from rated hp no matter the dyno.

Now if what this gentleman is saying is true that the Dyno is off by 15% then this all makes sense. But, where would a salesman be at the end of every month if he/she was 23% off from meeting their quota's??? Without a job!!

How in the blue heck can a company produce a "Precision Measurement device" that is "well known" for being off by 15%? And they are still in business?

2014c300...take a look at the figures below by Laredo...they accurately explain what we're seeing and why the 213.6 on the dyno. Losses due to elevation, mechanical, and shear fact that DD's post lower scores.
Just from what I've felt, I would imagine that if you hook the engine itself up to a dyno and tested it at sea level, you would see around 330bhp.

I'm still trying to find another AWD dyno in/around Calgary for an objective comparison. But I think you can take the numbers above seriously.
I am also trying to set up a time for when I'm in San Diego to get it up and do a run while I'm there as well, but time is exceedingly tight for that trip.

There has been so much back and forth and speculation on this thread...I want to make sure that these numbers aren't just blowing smoke in the wind.

agreed!

now all of this makes sense... hard reading everything in detail from my phone. I should have waited until i got home! but was too excited!

If these numbers are right then 317 whp then my god yes it is worth the money but way to many variables here..

none the less I really appreciate your information and you taking the time out to do all of this for the community. And you are right slightly off from a known BHP car @ 305hp I guess my initial reactions were off. I personally do not know much about subaru's.

question.. i am not sure if you posted somewhere else...

What Octane fuel were you running? Were you running a stock Air filter?

reason im asking is if you were on 91 octane and a stock paper filter... you may have closed the gap or even beat the Subaru with 93 octane and a high flow performance filter.

So your butt dyno feels a noticeable gain, right?

A healthy '12 STI should put down around 245-260awhp on a Dynojet. DynoDynamics dynos supposedly read about 10-15% less than Dynojets. Using this 'ricer' math, let's assume your car makes around 240-250awhp after the tune, on a Dynojet. Stock it probably put down around 230. With the parasitic loss from the AWD system and the automatic, it sounds about right.

For reference, stock B8 (S/C) S4's usually dyno between 280 and 320awhp depending on the dyno. They also seem to trap between 105 and 109 out of the box, so our cars have a little ways to go...

My SO was with me when we got the numbers and I seriously wanted to go home and rail against Kleemann. Thankfully...rationality kicked in and I had to see what variables were at play. Laredo got the point across very well for what the 'real world' numbers should look like.

This was with straight 91 octane and stock air filter that had been installed last year during its B service. Maybe 7,500km ago...I don't have to drive much...lol

My butt dyno would have been grinning ear to ear...if it had a mouth.
...or ears.

I only got to do one launch off the line. Put it in sport and got the revs up while holding the brake. My SO got pushed against the seat pretty darned effectively and admitted that she experienced a little it of feminine excitement while I climbed up to 100kph in roughly half a block.
I'm out with a buddy tomorrow morning when he drops his truck off for service. Will post a vid of the speedo doing its thing and you all can watch the zoom in real time.

Satisfaction level is pretty damned high right now.

If a stock sti puts down more who on this dyno than a tuned c300, no matter which dyno you go, it will still put down less power than the sti lol. That being said, the calculation above showing the c300 with over 300hp to the crank is a little hard to believe. Beside, it is normally hard to squeeze too much power from a NA car just from a tune. You would normally need bigger headers, high flow cats, cams, etc for little bit more power.

I would say around 280hp to the crank is more accurate. The drivetrain loss from an awd is normally around 60-70hp from seeing multiple dynos of subaru.

By the way, sti is a lot faster than c300 lol. I have both so I can confirm that

Terrence,
The engine in the C300 is the M276...stock 248hp
The engine in the C350 is the M276...stock 302hp

They're the same engine. The C300 is just de-tuned. They don't have to do anything physically to the engine to bring it up to the 300hp mark...
...they just tune the ECU to allow the the engine to open up to its full potential.

I understand that the C300 and C350 have the same engine. Although, I thought I read it somewhere that the internal is slightly different but I could be wrong.

The dyno above already shows it makes less power than sti which was listed at 300hp hence I don't think it is making over 300 with just the tune.

I guess the only way to find out is a drag race between stock c350 vs a tuned c300

A tuned M276 should put down more power than a stock STI.

As a poster already said, "tuning" the ECU in a 2013-14 c300 essentially removes the C300 badge and replaced it with a C350 badge + some.

kleemans is claiming 330 crank hp a stock STI is 305 crank hp.

That STI could have had a few mods and that the guy did not disclose? He could added octane booster to 91 octane, he could have had a high flow air filter. We are only talking about 8 whp?

Put a high flow air filter in the C300 and 93 Octane I bet that is good for at least 8 whp. When I spoke to tuners out west US their tunes are all rated at 91 octane because that is all that is available. They told me I should see a little more with 93 octane and high flow filter About 5-10

3373 curb weight WRX STI
3400-3800 Curb weight C300

WRX is lighter depending on the 300's options. Stock STI vs stock C350 2014/13 would be a good race. To settle the dispute. Technically the WRX should have the weight advantage


Food for thought

It's showing less power because the STI is forced air induction so it doesn't lose as much power at altitude as a natural aspirated engine.

If anyone has a recommendation for an awd dyno in San Diego, I'd greatly appreciate it...

Starting to believe that the M276 may in fact be different between the two models, because this shouldn't be that complicated otherwise.

Real question would be, if you go to a dealer and require a replacement engine for your C300, is it the same part number as the 350... That tells me whether the changes are internal or external to achieve the 50hp difference.

Edit: Well that was easy. All part numbers for the engine components that would be responsible for a power increase are the same between both models. Block, rods, pistons, cams, heads, valves, etc. So guess I will start comparing exhaust manifolds, intake, and maybe a few timing controls otherwise it's in the tuning...
C350:http://mbonlineparts.com/parts/2014/...iagram=F35J060
C300:http://mbonlineparts.com/parts/2014/...iagram=F35J060

Converting crank HP is going to be a guess at best without a baseline run of the same car at the same dyno. Even then the car don't always make the advertised HP so your correction factor may be wrong. The important part is the gain. Unfortunately we can't really see that. Based on the comparison vs the STi I'd be willing to say you gained some power, but wouldn't care to say if its more or less than a stock c350.

The one thing you can do it take it to a drag strip. Post of the time slips. We can get a lot of info out of those as well.

The one interesting thing I saw out of this is how flat that torque curve is. Compare that to the one scuba357 posted.

Well, you guys have to look at the powerband and the gearing. That chart does look every bit what a stock STI should make on that type of dyno, and they're not particularly fast in stock form.

While the C300 almost matches the STI's peak power it's left for dead under the curve. Check out the STI's massive mid-range torque. At one point, the STI is making almost 50awtq more than the 'Benz. Combine that with a lighter curb weight, aggressive gearing, and the C has a tough opponent. There has to be SOMETHING else that can be done to the M276 that'll net decent gains. That said, there is this Motor Trend test of a '13 C350 rwd coupe:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

This one ran a 14.0@100.6 through the quarter mile at a 3642lb curb weight. I'm not sure how much slower the 4matic would be, but a 100.6mph trap speed is quite similar to a stock '12 STI, so maybe the fat mid-range advantage doesn't come into play when one is always above 4k rpm.

The best way to figure this out is for a before and after plot. I would absolutely take my car, but I have an M272. I will likely still do a before/after dyno (I have the convenience of a flash loader too), but it's not applicable to this scenario. Who wants to find a local dynojet and test this out?

I have access to my friend's dyno for a decent price but I don't think I want to drop $1300usd on the tune. Although, it would be great if there is a transmission tune as well since I found the response is quite slow.

Yeah, that much for an N/A tune on a non-AMG is absurd. That's why I went with OE Tuning on mine. The cost was a lot more... palatable, lol.

I don't think there are tranny tunes, but the regular tune did make my transmission more responsive.

I would like to see a stock dyno run on a C350 and then a C300 with 'any' tune. If it is a matter of just allowing the throttle plate to open all the way (separating the difference) then they should be quite close. That would be an improvement in of itself. If tuners can extract any additional power on a C350, then those should apply to the C300.

If these gains could be shown with dyno runs then I would definitely do this for my wife's C300 4matic.

^^^Agreed, been saying that for awhile now. It's baffling to me that such a simple concept is so difficult. Obviously the ECU has been cracked so tuners are able to make tweaks. So how can they not see a side by side to understand the differences and match the 350.

I have a feeling the 350 probably doesn't even put more than 275 to the wheels.

But even if that were the case, a bump to 275 at the wheels for a C300 would be worth it (less so for the 4matic)

Agreed, thus why if someone could just show a dyno chart anywhere near 275 I would be sold haha.

I think we'd all appreciate it even if you just posted the stock numbers Terrence...
I want someone in my city to do it just so we can show a comparison, but even a base run wherever your are might be helpful.

I agree. I was always under the impression that the C350 was in direct competition with the Audi S4 and BMW 335i

Based on Dyno numbers that shows me that the C350 and Mercedes Benz completely missed their mark with their target market.

Im scratching my head with this one. What I honestly want is a high 12 second everyday driver that looks good. With tuning I was hoping that would be achievable with a C300 but apparently not. A C350... 50k car with over 300 hp runs 14's stock? thats pitiful and a waste of money.

I agree with others in this thread. We need to see what a C350 puts down stock with and without 4matic and I know I am concerned with their tuned 1/4 mile time. One of the selling points for me when I made this purchase was the cars sportiness and the ability to simply "turn it into a c350" based on tons of research with what information was available at the time.

I love the C63 however I live in PA therefor a C63 is not practical. I refuse to purchase a 80k car just to have it sit in the garage 6 months out of the year.. whats the point of that. I wanted a great handling and sporty sedan that is notably quick yet can be driven all year round with confidence. The C300 M276 completes all of these for me but with these numbers coming up on here I am now skeptical that It will complete the last requirement.. I am just not sure..

I watched a dyno video of a E63 and it was way way under rated... i was hoping that was the case with the M276 as well. Apparently it is over rated which is a huge disappointment.

Only more quality graphs and maybe some time slips coming may or may not prove the big question of actual performance. If this does not work out I may have to hop on the Audi S4 or 335i band wagon depending on peoples opinions of the C450 in a year or so.

The F30 335 is so much quicker than our cars they don't even compare haha. We did a side by side comparison when we bought this car. The ONLY reason we opted for the MB was due to it being a much more comfy car.

I already DD a pretty rigid rough vehicle. We didn't want another one. The 335 is a sports sedan, this is a "luxury" sedan with some sport haha.

I have never driven a 335i. Maybe I should. I am a very performance/ handling oriented guy.

When the time comes I will test drive s 335i and the C450. With tuning I would certainly hope the C450 would be a 12 second car (considering the 2015 4cyl C300 tuned is a 13.7 second car) The 335i I know nothing about.

Measuring Versus Guessing
 

With all due respect it appears to me Kleemann is a reputable company experienced with tuning, for example, various AMG models as can be easily evidenced on their web page, and available via email, with reliable repeatable data. With reference to the C300 Models available with the M276 Engine (3.5 Litre) there is a lack of data to support the claims of "up to 330 HP". I have researched this and found that their claim, at this point is nothing more than hearsay evidence. Surprisingly, there is a lack of dyno data to support the up to 330 HP. Which leads to inquire herein: "How without a dyno or any published standard of measuring did the company come up with this number initially? Does anyone here know definitively how this HP math was determined without measuring?

They figured that the C350 makes around 300 hp. They figured there tuning was worth 'something' so decided on 10%.

300 + 30 = 330.

That is my guess. Until you see unbiased dyno tests before and after than that is all I suspect that Kleeman / EC etc did.

I would jump all over a tune if it was proven to be what it is.

I agree with the above posts. This is nothing against Kleenans, however I do agree that advertising "numbers" without backing those numbers up seems like a poor business decision.

Nobody on this forum would believe me if I claimed to tune my own vehicle and run an 11 flat quarter without proof.
Therefore I agree with many other forum members that proof is needed.

There is a video on the main page of this website right now about a 2015 C300 before and after tuning 1/4 mile runs providing proof of what the tune in that car yielded.

$1300 plus tax and shipping is pretty steep without charts / documented 1/4 runs etc. if the tune was $400 then I could understand not being so skeptical however for most people we are talking a months mortgage payment that we would essentially be taking a gamble on. In fact we do not even know what we are getting there is still lack of proof. We have 1 dyno run that leaves us scratching our heads and guessing. No disrespect to the man who posted it. We appreciate his effort. However I agree with the other members. I need to see a 1/4 mile run in the low 13's / high 12's or a dyno run showing north of 275 hp.

Just my 2 cents

Unfortunately where I live there is no drag strip or dyno close. I would have to rent a car to send my ECU out unless I do it when I take a vacation some time in the future or when my wife takes vacation. So getting this tune done for me is a huge deal. I need to be 100% sure that I am getting every bit of what I am paying for in order to validate taking vacation to have this done or renting a car etc. so for me the tune is going to cost me well over just the cost of the tune

It would actually be pretty darn simple for Kleemans in my opinion. Offer to tune a guys car for free in return that guy authorizes the use of his vehicle as a test platform. Kleenans tunes it showing before and after dyno charts. They disclose what octane fuel is used as well as what air filter for each run. Then they take the car to the track and do stock vs tuned. Video everything and show charts and time slips in the video. If the results are what they claim we already know thousands of finally convinced people would have no trouble handing over the cash. They simply need to invest more into their own work for the public to feel confident with their tuning in this particular vehicle.

This is not a cheap used Honda we are talking about here we are talking about a 45-50k car. They want people to trust them with their expensive vehicle they need to earn that trust.

Measuring Versus Guessing Part 2
 

Power to Weight Ratio: 10.91
60 Foot E.T. : 1.80
1/8 Mile E.T. : 8.15
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 83.39
1/4 Mile E.T. : 12.92
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 104 MPH

Above is the expected results given below:
330 HP in a 3600 Lb C300 17 Inch Tire
Kleemann's claim available for C300 owners

Power to Weight Ratio: 14.52
60 Foot E.T. : 1.97
1/8 Mile E.T. : 8.97
1/8 Mile Trap Speed : 75.82
1/4 Mile E.T. : 14.21
1/4 Mile Trap Speed : 94


Above is the expected results given below:
248 STOCK HP in a 3600 LB C300 17 Inch Tire
Mercedes Benz HP Ratings for C300 Sport Sedans / Coupes
Are listed as 248. I would imagine they measured.......

If you run in the high 12s you will know it.
Also, you know when you are not. :zoom:

C300s should weigh in with an average 175-180 LB driver near 4000 Lbs curb weight. That is with the M276 Engine (3.5 Litre) to be clear.


This is what I mean by measuring. Whenever Kleemann comes up with data they should let everyone know if the intake system was modified in any way, along with whether there were headers installed or a higher flowing exhaust system.


I am a newbie herein, but the lack of data is stunning.


I have written this as to state to get 330 HP is NOT impossible. But for paying out money and expect to go from 248 HP to 330 is + 72 HP gain. I am not skeptical just merely asking for more definitive information. I can see the number for a 302 HP unit in the C350. That is a 9% gain, not unheard of given all the detuning the EPA requires here in the USA.


Maybe their claim that the firmware, albeit is different in the C300s versus the C350 can be made the sane in the end remains to be seen.


Hopefully, Kleemannn will get wind of this and start coming up with a dyno effort.


I have been working in the auto and trucking industry for 28 years and this doesn't seem unreasonable to request.

Even if you end up at 300 hp versus 248 hp that is a bonus.

All very valid points being made here. And I really do regret not running a baseline before shipping out the ECU for my ride.
As mentioned in my posts for the dyno, I am wanting to do another set of runs when I get to San Diego...just to see the difference between dyno's and altitude effects.
I'd also like someone in the Calgary area to run a stock '13 C300 on the same dyno.

I want valid proof as well that will state real numbers. I received no deals from Kleemann for actually posting my numbers when nobody else would/could....but I would really like to get some complete validation of the work.

I pity them if my numbers in San Diego come back with something more significant or if a stock run shows the same numbers in town.

FWIW it really runs 14.8 @ 97mph stock.

A C350 4matic stock runs 14.0 @ 101mph

Either that calculator is off quite a bit or the HP numbers MB is putting up are off a lot.
Car and Driver for both numbers

One of the best, most reasoned responses to the whole tuning issue I have seen on this site. The technical analysis of what any tuning vendor, regardless of vehicle model, should be able to readily supply to prospective customers in order to back up their claims of not only of power gained, but also of safety of operation, that would prove their workmanship, is excellent. Great post! :bow:

That is what I was attempting to say earlier.

What makes matters worse is that 2015 4 CYLINDER with a tune runs 13.7 sec in the quarter.. What a kick in the pants! However all that was published were track numbers we do not know what the 2015 c300 4 matic puts down at the wheels with a chart.

There must be a ton of hidden potential in that new 2015 4 cylinder in the c300 to surpass C350 times and power with just a tune. Single turbo correct?

I find it hard to believe that a tuned 2013-14 C300/C350 can't do better than a tuned 2015 4 cylinder... if this is true it will definitely keep my money in my pocket and I will be upgrading vehicles as soon as my lease is up rather than keeping mine and tuning it.. That C450 is becoming more and more tempting. I can't imagine what numbers it could post up at the track if the 4 cylinder is already running 13.7's . I bet the C450 would be capable of 400 plus flywheel hp with a tune.... can't wait to see videos popping up on youtube. If it runs what I hope it will that will be my next purchase. There are allot of C450 flame wars going on right now but what these people fail to understand is the C63 is missing one very important must have feature for allot of people... 4 matic. I HAVE TO HAVE AWD where i live. The C450 solves this problem for me... I get a sports sedan that has good power and I can drive it year round with some all season radials. sign me up. The CLA 45 I am personally not fond of. I do not like the look at all and I really enjoy the comfort of the C class much better.

The trick is forced induction. It's superior in every way that naturally aspirated can't accomplish. On top of it, simple matter of a tune to alter the boost increases the power substantially.

Sorry but V6 doesn't even compare to most I4 turbos these days.

I'll have to check the forums. But the 335 with a pure stage II turbo and tune which maybe costs 3k is yielding in the high 400's hp and toque lol.

I bought this car for comfort believe me, because we test drove the F30 and its superior in performance in almost every way.

Thanks for the reply. I am new to turbos and still a fairly new MB owner. I love the style, comfort of my 2014 AMG sport C300 however I have gasoline in my veins and I always simply put find myself wanting more. The handling is not terrible but I feel the steering is way to light to do any type of hard corner and hold the corner steady. I even just dropped $1100 on Michiline Pilot Sport A/S 3's. The tires are phenomenally better than the Pirelli P Zero Neros that were on it but the tires did not change steering feel. I like steering that is tight and solid. To light of steering canyon carving is not fun, i find my car oversteers like crazy trying to hold corners because the steering is not tight enough. I have driven other vehicles where the steering feel was superb. It feels like you are pushing against something in the steering which prevents that oversteer when cornering. That is not present in my 2014 C300 and I hate it.

The power is definitely lacking. I like the sound of the engine but I find myself wanting way more out of what I paid for the car. My C300 was in the showroom at my local MB dealer and stickers at 46k i will never purchase a vehicle again with standard headlights.. My c300 has the standard headlights as I could not see spending $3000 just for Bi xenons... what were they thinking? My previous car was a lexus IS250 it had HID's from the factory and I did not realize how much I loved them until I purchased the Benz without them.

Anyway I got off topic there. I really just find myself wanting more with my car. It is the most comfortable car I have ever owned... the stereo Harmon Kardon does not seem like it is upgraded at all. It lacks allot of bass imo.

I am learning allot from these forums.. I now know that If i want to upgrade a car that i need to start with a good baseline and that is an engine that has forced induction, it will yield the most bang for the buck in performance gains.

I just want a good quality sports sedan that is all wheel drive.. that can run in the 12's (safely without harming the engine over time - daily driver), and handle really well with quality tight steering feel that has a real top of the line sound system with good bass. I guess 50k does not buy that? lol


I think i found a way to sum up my opinion pretty well here....

I feel like my C300 looks way more sporty than it really is... It looks great! however when you get in the experience does not live up to what you were looking at as you were walking up to and strapping yourself in to the cockpit. You are somehow let down... You find yourself thinking... man I was expecting more... and I think that is because of the way the car looks...

I have formulated this opinion over time.. there is no way I could have come to these conclusions during a 15 minute test drive.. It has taken me several years of driving to put my finger on exactly what I do not like.. Its not as simple as oo i want a fast car.. so i go buy one of those... no... I want something much more complex... my next car has to do allot of things perfectly not one thing.

Of course I have to stay in budget.. If budget were not an option then I would choose an E63 S ... because it meets all of my criteria.. 4 matic. but I can not afford right now a car that costs half has much as my house. $1500 a month payment... I don't think so. There has to be another solution and I think with continuing to talk with all of you it will in the end help me make up my mind on exactly what I need to purchase next when my lease is up...

any updates on this how many people are getting this done? seems intriguing does it void warranty?

I wonder how many people are actually getting this done. Doesn't seem like too many people are actually willing to put up that kind of money. Understandably so considering neither Kleemann or Eurocharged will actually post comparison numbers.
I took the chance as it really is the only performance enhancing thing we can do with our M276 engines right now. It worked out quite well, though some of their claims are a little off as I am still experiencing some throttle lag when I'm in motion and really push the pedal down.

I'm still anxious to get down to the south coast and get on a dyno down there to see what I hit for numbers at sea level. Theoretically, I'm losing about 12% due to altitude...

whats the cost of this by the way pm me if you don't want to post it :) this might be in my near future depending if they post more results or members decide to post more about it

If your talking about the 3.5 liter C300/350 2013-14 tune it's about $1300.

That is what this discussion is all about is it worth it. A stock C350 runs a 14 second quarter mile. The tune gives a C350 / C300up to a "claimed" 330 flywheel hp. So maybe 13.8? Quarter mile?

Also there is zero documentation provided by Kleemans the tuning company backing up their claims of 330 flywheel hp for both C350 / C300 2013-14.

My point in skipping this tune for my 14 C300 is a tuned 2015 C300 turbo 4 cylinder runs 13.7 in the quarter. Personally to me that's pathetic that the W204 is such a slow turd. I am holding on to my money and adding that to a down payment on a C450 or C400 or maybe even a 335i.

The only thing that will make me change my mind is if a person submits proof that with this Kleemans tune they are running faster than expected, IE very low 13's high 12's. My personal opinion a 12 second everyday driver in a luxury sports sedan is respectable anything less than that I will pass. Stock 335i runs 13.1? With a tune low 12's? High 11's with an aggressive tune and some bolt on's from what I have read.

Everyone has their own opinion of course. That is mine.

Best of luck with whatever you choose.

guess your right hahaha. well GOD knows if I'll ever buy a benz again they can't even do the service right at the dealership..... its actually pretty sad and disheartening.

I used to be a gear head about 10 years ago had a 550 rwhp Z28.

Now that I am older my tastes have changed. I prefer luxury, comfort, engineering and quality over buying some cheap used Camaro or mustang and dumping paychecks in it. Anyone teenager / gear head can buy a cheap used sports car and sink pay check after pay check into it and make it fast. Now that I am older I realize I wanted to do something not everyone can do and that's walk into a MB dealership and walk out with a 50k car. (Especially where I live where 12 bucks an hour seems to be "good money")

I am new to MB and I am learning more everyday and I wish the C350 had been available in a sedan which it was not so I had little choice C300. Had I known better at the time I would have at least test drove an S4 and a 335i but caught up in the allure of owning a MB. Next time I will not make that mistake.

I agree 110% with what your saying.

I'm in agreement with 2014C300.
While I do want to have a little fun with my ride, I would prefer something that is already well set in terms of comfort and performance...though I wish I could have gotten my hands on a coupe...

Personally, unless you go with an M series, there is nothing special about a BMW, whereas I always get comments on how nice my car is. And Audi cannot touch either MB or BMW for reliability.

Around here all you see are those huge jacked up turbo diesel trucks. I think most are ignorant to the fact that Audi, BMW, Mercedes are not as expensive as they think. I find it humorous to be honest when people I work with make snide comments yet they leave at the end of the day in a large jacked up truck. All u can do is laugh I guess.

Don't get me wrong I love my car. My wife loves her 2014 C300 as well.

I am more performance oriented than she is of course lol. I was just hopefull the tune would yield better results than what we are seeing. I wanted to keep my car and it full fill all my personal requirements. but if I'm only going to get 13.8 or so at best then not only am I not wasting my money I am disappointed because that is why I chose this car with this engine. Yes there was and is very little info out there about the results of a tune with the M276 other than with butt Dino's or Dyno's that yield questionable results, and still no before and after 1/4 mile results.

Not gonna lie I purchased a 2013 with the intent of more power promised by these tuners. Would have opted for a 350 at this rate. Feel kind of ripped off by false advertising.

I don't think it is "false advertising". In my opinion it is just the w204. Our cars are 400 lbs? Heavier? Than w205. The transmission leaves much to be desired and the M276 is low on torque where the 335i's torque comes in low "300 lb/ft" and stays throughout the power band.

I think I know where my money is going. C400. I was reading in another thread a tune yielded 417 hp. This is approaching Base C63 power. We are still earlier in the release of this car. People were saying with piping upgrades, inter cooler upgrades etc the car could yield even more if the bottom end could handle it. I need to research more about the internals. No idea if the TT V6 3.0 has forged internals. I would hope so. Also I read that stock boost on the C400 is only 9 psi for 327 hp! So that leaves allot of room. I could not find what boost levels were at @ 417 hp. I know I'm drooling at this point. The C400 smells like an easy 12 second daily driver. Time will tell. I can't wait to try and get one but I have 2 years on my lease and a little over 1 on my wife's.

I hear you on not wanting to dump a ton of money into upgrades anymore. I had about 10k in one of my cars before I wised up and realized I could just buy the performance I wanted from the factory and it would actually have resale value and a warranty.

As for the c350 not being available in a sedan- say what?

The interiors on BMWs aren't as nice as MB or Audi and they've been getting softer. In recent years they've been losing handling shootouts. If you're not at least getting the M sport package I'm not sure why I'd bother.

LOL, right? Even normal SUVs cost a ton of money. Not to mention how cheap a used MB is. Weird is that my wife still makes those sorts of comments and she know I paid about the same for mine as she did for new CRV when new.

FWIW the S4 and 335 go for quite a bit more on the used market, and the S4 is just more expensive new. That's a good part of the reason I ended up with one. If you're looking for a super powerful sports sedan MB really isn't the best choice until you get to the AMG line. Also the C400 is going away. Its being replaced by the c450 //amg. Probably perfect for what you're looking for though. It has the fun magnetic suspension and transmission settings from the AMG line with a pretty powerful engine. Just not crazy.

The C350 is only sold as a 2 door coupe in the US. At least that was the case when I was looking around and similarly settled for the C300 as a result.

I have seen the C350 in sedan form while in Canada so this may just be a US market limitation.

Ouch, sorry to burst your bubble but the 350 is offered in a sedan. There's even a **** ton of them for sale on Carmax right now.

I opted away from it because forum vendors were claiming 350 power with a tune. Looks like I got sold some snake oil. 350 wouldn't have been much more, may have just taken awhile longer to find one with all the options we wanted. Oh well.

Interesting. I didn't see any 2014 C350s in Sedan when I was searching nor any information from MB showing it as anything other than a Coupe. Maybe I missed out...

The C350 in the Us was NOT offered in Sedan with 4 matic. Coupe only had 4 matic. I checked MBUSA.com many many times and the 4 matic option was missing. If I did not need 4 matic we would not be having this discussion as I would already be driving a C63

Even so I stopped in at my local dealer and even checked on 2 door C350's and the dealer told me they could not even get coupes in 4 matic for the longest time.

Yes the C400 is rumored to be going away. I do not know if the C450 will work for me. PA winters can be rough and I would rather stay at a max of 18" rims, the C450 seems to come standard with 19" wheels. I do not know if 18's are an option or not as the car is still not available. Also I believe it only comes with summer tires? Hate to spend 65k on a car and have no choice but to turn right around and dump another grand in tires for all seasons.

(In the past year I have bent 3 rims and replaced 7 tires because of PA roads. It would only be worse with 19's I'm sure. An extreme case of bad luck, poorly marked bump in construction zone got my 3 rims. And I caught a pot hole on the interstate and blew a p zero Nero , I then couldn't stand the noise from the pirellis any longer and the poor handling so I yanked them all off for Pilot sport A/S 3's

I recently read somewhere that the 19's will be optional.. 18's standard on the C450... take this with a grain of salt, the info was not from MBUSA

This is good news at least for me.

What does this have anything to do with the topic of the thread

:eek: who the **** are you thread police... :crazy:

Maybe this thread is for a kleemann ecu tune, maybe a thread about wheels; should have information about wheels.

Well considering this thread contains many more conversations than just a Kleemans ECU tune, I apologize you were not part of those conversation.

So ****ing what? If you don't like the conversation then don't take part in it.

Well you can always make your own thread. Im subscribed to this thread for kleeman ecu posts, not your useless information.

Then don't read it jack a$$.

wow... i tell ya some people.. well you just made my mind up for me *****... I sent out my ECU yesterday. I will be keeping my opinions and results to myself..

I'd appreciate your thoughts once you have a chance to 'play' with it a bit.

To bring this thread back around to topic...

I have now driven from Calgary, AB to San Diego, CA with this tune...a total of 2200 miles or so. I wasn't able to get to a dyno unfortunately, but I can tell you that there is a definite power increase like you wouldn't believe!!
We've been following the coast all the way down and I now know why people love the Pacific coast highway! Those twists and turns are insanely fun!!!
...I need stiffer suspension, gripper tires, and my gf to take some gravol...lol

The amazing part is, even at 'highway' speeds...65 to 75mph, I've been seeing an average of 28mpg on 91 octane which is 2mpg above stated specs.

All in all, this tune is definitely worth it. So much fun and instantly powerful even when already 'at speed' to get around on the interstate.

Atleast we're back on topic

Coming from The VW world (ECU tunes for days!) I’m very interested in getting a tune for the 300. Also Being a VR6 guy (N/A) I have never seen a N/A tune to claim this much of a power increase. So yeah, any Proof, I would be super stoked to see before purchasing.

Seriously? Did you even read the thread? Any and all "proof" exists in this thread.

you are correct, I did not see this chart. It has been awhile since I have checked back on this.

2014c300. Calm down please. Your peers do not take kindly to your attitude!

Kurt, the key here is what the stock dyno looks like. I think there was certainly some gain, but idk about $1400 worth of gain.

What were the before and after numbers?

That's the problem. There were no before numbers.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...b4ae40628f.jpg

Salt Lake City, UT to Old Faithful National Park WY.


...now that I'm back from my trip, I will be again looking for someone to do the stock dyno run on the same stand that I did mine...just so we can show for sure.

However, I do have the attached picture to show some incontravertable proof of performance. The stated mileage for the 2013 MB C300 4matic is 26mpg.
This picture is after driving from my overnight stay in Salt Lake City to the parking lot of Old Faithful in Wyoming. 29.4mpg.
...it actually went up to 30.2mpg when my gf was driving afterwards, though she slowed the average speed to 59mph.

My wife and I averaged 29mpg though just doing a trip down to the Tacoma area and even hit some traffic. Ours is stock.

Yup, I can also easily get 29 to 30 on my stock 2013 C300. My daily commute one way is 1 mile of city >> 12 miles at 60 mph >> 27 miles at 75 mph >> 3 miles of city (mostly on a 55 mph road).

I've had days where I get over 31 mpg on that trip. I have over 64,000 miles on my C300 and routinely get 29 mpg in the summer and about 25-26 mpg in the winter. Last winter we got 144" of snow and the winter before that we had 165 inches. Ya gotta love West Michigan winters and lake effect snow. ;)

I was getting great mileage as well...
The purpose behind my post is in keeping with the topic of the thread. I recently got Kleemann to tune the ECU for my C300 to unlock the power. I posted the pic and note to show that even with the tune, the fuel economy does not suffer.
There was some questions around that much earlier in the thread. As I'm the only one that has gotten the tune done for this engine and is actually posting anything afterwards...I thought it would be my responsibility to provide the answers I can based on the experience I've had.

It's always been a great car...now it's just a little bit more fun...hehe

Not Kleemann Tuned
 

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...668a7eef83.jpg

628 mile range


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...6600f5253d.jpg

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...29a7c5db67.jpg

Non Kleemann tuned 2013 C300 3.5 Litre


While I am waiting for data about Kleemann Tunes for the 3.5 Litre in the C300........ there is a reason we haven't heard from Kleemann.


Has anyone herein figured it out yet? :zoom:


Meanwhile I found a simple way to get 35 MPGs + in this engine transmission set-up without modifying the engine ecu or the transmission tcm.


If you are interested send me $1295 and I will send you the data required to achieve this.

Genesis drove 13 times longer than you and averaged 4 mph faster. Anyone could get 35mpg on a mountain road or with good wind by resetting the trip at an advantageous time. If you increased your sample, an drove for another 5 hours, you would likely encounter some not so favourable conditions that would lower your mpg.

:rolf: you want $1295?? :rolf: :eek: :slap: :crazy: :rolf::bs:

Just throwing this out there, don't kill the messenger. Here is a picture of the Dyno graph of the ECU tuned c300 and a ecu tuned c350 (a 2006 but same engine model m262). They seem very close.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...971efbacc0.png

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...5e1e780fb2.jpg

What year was the C300?

Disregard my post lol didnt notice the year

I just got the Kleeman tune a few days ago. Luckily I live in Denver so it was just an hour drive. Anyway I was getting so sick of the throttle lag that I mainly got it done for that. It's like a bullet off the line and when I see that space in traffic where I have to make an instant move I can do it now. The $1300 for that alone for me was worth it but now I've got a lot more power. I don't know how much gain I got but it's considerable. Cory told me he's judging 315 hp by some side by side comparison done by someone back east. Honestly I got lost in his explanation and didn't really care. I'd say if it's not over 300hp it's close. If you can afford it, it's worth it. I'm just waiting for a G37 or an S4 to punch it and then wonder why he's not leaving me in the dust. He'll pull away, but not like he'd expect. I may even stay with the G37.

Please run against a stock C350 and / or take it to the track and let us know what you trap in the 1/4. :zoom:

(As for throttle tip in I hate when programmers ramp up the throttle position rather than keep it linear to make the car 'seem' faster. On my C63 the throttle is so sensitive it is much more difficult to modulate the throttle. A nice linear curve is much easier to drive at the limit.)



Definitely interested in seeing the results :) as my wife thinks her car would benefit from a bit more power :)

This in particular is why I'm so skeptical of anything without before and after numbers. Its easy to fool people with throttle map changes. Harder to fool a dyno or timing lights.

I agree. I just know that it's way more fun to drive. $1300 more fun? That's a close call.

All that is needed would be a before and after dyno of the same car (a few examples of customers perhaps) and this would be a done deal for MANY people.

Not sure why this hasn't been done by Kleeman or EC or anybody else.

The $$$ on 'tuning' has been spent, and these companies would benefit from spending some dyno time on a dyno they own (which costs-> wear and tear and salaries already being paid). Having this proof would reap rewards for these companies.

I would prefer the same purported tunes that yield the power gains but maintaining a linear throttle. If I want to go faster I can push on the go fast pedal.

Creating the illusion of a faster car that is more difficult to drive (where the throttle is no linear) is not a benefit.

With the tune, the throttle response is very linear. In other words I don't feel like it hits a power band at a certain rpm. It pulls evenly to red line. As far as finding an awd dyno I'm just not that concerned about numbers, but you are totally correct that Kleeman should have or have access to an awd dyno. Upon thinking back I remember that before I had the tune it was less linear. It would "come on the pipe" (from my moto-x days) at around 5K rpm it seemed like. Anyway it pulls very evenly now. Hope this helps.

The World is drowning in Big data, But Kleemann has none.
 

I believe this image is for a M272 Engine. This thread is about the M276 Engine 3.5 Litre.
Again, no definitive data, for 1300.00 is really amazing. https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...5e1e780fb2.jpg
High end cars are among the most sophisticated and complex on the planet today, some of which contain over 100,000,000 lines of code. if you consider that Facebook has half of that at about 50,000,000 lines of code you can draw the simple dots to connect to the reality that the ECU governs performance, fuel efficiency and of course emissions.


Cars are reaching the complexity levels of biological systems in terms of detail and control. This brings everyone reading this benefits they are well aware of, and also allows for well....think about what VW has been found doing recently...yes opportunities for malevolence for your pocketbook and mine.


Soon you may very well be reading about what perhaps Mercedes has been doing to pass here in the United Stated the EPA's series of emission tests to gain acceptance and approval for marketing to the masses.


VW would not have been caught 20 years ago doing this....but today it is another new and different world.
So stay tuned avid readers of the W204 forums.


The same amazing revelations about this threads ECU tuning offering and any substance to its "claims" could very well soon be exposed for its validity.


Soon perhaps we may all discover the data Kleeman doesn't seem to have or is unwilling to produce.


Now isn't that going to be interesting.






https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mbw...29a7c5db67.jpg

As you guys know, i've been on Mbworld for awhile; so i'm not one of those fake people. I am getting a Eurocharged ECU tune. i already did a BEFORE dyno (which was 210whp) and i do have picture evidence as well. I will be shipping out the ECU on May 3rd and Dyno again on May 11.

Dyno'd at 210 hp (at 5th gear)which is around 20% drivetrain loss (awd and automatic) so sounds about right. 250-ish hp.

Edit: i got 205 whp on 4th to compare to my after dyno results (which was at 4th and not 5th)

so weird, i dyno'd at 210 stock.

Be careful, this topic is jinxed. Bad things have befallen everyone that has attempted to do a before and after dyno on the C300.

Regardless I am really anxious to see you succeed and break the curse once and for all!

I just installed it and it didnt blow up so 👍. It feels alot faster. Gonna do a after dyno on tuesday 8:30 am

Perfect! The delta from the before and after dyno is all that matters. Not the peak power. I know it disappoints people when they don't see huge numbers but what people really wanna know is, if the tune adds power or not.

I just bought an ISF for myself, so might get the tune if it pans out for the wife's car since now she knows what 400hp feels like :)

In 4th gear i went from 205 hp to 262 hp. So its actually 317 hp to the crank if u calculate the same % loss to the crank