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The Lastschlagdaempfung mod also works with 2009-2011 C63 models.
With the amount of power the C63 makes, making that change isn't for everyone..
on new ECUs like med40 med177 and some more lastschlag isnt included in coding, maybe anybody knows another solution? Maybe lastschlag was renamed into another coding parameter?
Make it hard to control the power due to the instant throttle?
Slightly. I wouldn't say harder to control, but it is more "jumpy" while sitting in traffic. I end up putting the car back into C mode when traffic is heavy because sport mode makes the gas pedal very touchy.
I'm a big fan of the change!
Originally Posted by myztique
on new ECUs like med40 med177 and some more lastschlag isnt included in coding, maybe anybody knows another solution? Maybe lastschlag was renamed into another coding parameter?
I can't find a similar parameter in either ECU file. Perhaps changing the pedalkennlinie to something other value might help
Slightly. I wouldn't say harder to control, but it is more "jumpy" while sitting in traffic. I end up putting the car back into C mode when traffic is heavy because sport mode makes the gas pedal very touchy.
I'm a big fan of the change!
I can't find a similar parameter in either ECU file. Perhaps changing the pedalkennlinie to something other value might help
How do you like the C63 overall as an upgrade to your C250?
This thread is very interesting because these mercedes have horrible throttle response. I dont have enough knowledge yet to go changing softwares but I have tried to fix it with a Sprint Booster, it did fix it but sometimes when the car is trying to adapting to slow driving with the sprint booster on max, you can tell they are fighting each other.. Some times the car even starts to have engine ping if I give it too much throttle which is very annoying and stressful to the engine. I just try not to make it ping, it happens very rarely and I dont always put the sprint booster on the maximum setting but it has fixed my issue with throttle lag for now.
If you are getting a sprint booster, be aware of engine detonation, the ecu wont be able to keep up with the throttle being opened so fast at low rpms unlike stock, you are basicly cheating the throttle.
How do you like the C63 overall as an upgrade to your C250?
at risk of slightly derailing my own thread :
I'm absolute love! But like I've told everyone else, they're similar in appearance..and the similarities pretty much stop there. Completely different car in my eyes. It might be that the suspension is probably a bit tired on the C250 and needs a refresh but they handle MUCH differently, and getting back into the C250 is almost depressing because it's alarmingly slow in comparison to the C63. I've kept the 250 for a daily commute/winter car; I still love the car, and it's way better on fuel than the AMG is obviously
C250 Pros: Wet weather/bad weather performance, AWD, Fuel economy, Possibly a better high beam light setup, still prefer the look to the stock C63
C250 Cons: Lack of power/alarmingly slow, softer yet slightly less stable feeling ride (it's still excellent, though), lighter steering weight, doesn't sound great now that I'm used to a V8,
I'm glad I have both though. The c250 is a fantastic winter car and general daily driver, and it looks great. Here's the two side by side:
Originally Posted by ltwargssf
This thread is very interesting because these mercedes have horrible throttle response. I dont have enough knowledge yet to go changing softwares but I have tried to fix it with a Sprint Booster, it did fix it but sometimes when the car is trying to adapting to slow driving with the sprint booster on max, you can tell they are fighting each other.. Some times the car even starts to have engine ping if I give it too much throttle which is very annoying and stressful to the engine. I just try not to make it ping, it happens very rarely and I dont always put the sprint booster on the maximum setting but it has fixed my issue with throttle lag for now.
If you are getting a sprint booster, be aware of engine detonation, the ecu wont be able to keep up with the throttle being opened so fast at low rpms unlike stock, you are basicly cheating the throttle.
You might want to look into that a bit more, I don't think that should be causing ping/ignition timing/predetonation issues. If anything I feel like it could cause the engine to bog a bit worst case scenario. I've had no similar issues after doing it this way, and I don't think anyone else has either
I still need to get this done. Although I almost always instinctively put the car in D6 gear limit mode. When I forget I can feel the suckiness of the inconsistent throttle response. The drawback is I'll sometimes forget to use 7th gear on the highway.
I've got my laptop rebuilt and installed back the software etc.
Then done this coding last night and test drive for an hour.
It is really improved a lot in acceleration and throttle lag.
Yes, but after some cars i mentioned, that it is not the same on every car. You have to test it on each car! Not all functions are "good" for car. For example:
"Momentenerhöhung in Getriebe" set to "MSG option" is not working after the year 2012 in GLK --> the ECU saves fault-codes!
Yes, but after some cars i mentioned, that it is not the same on every car. You have to test it on each car! Not all functions are "good" for car. For example:
"Momentenerhöhung in Getriebe" set to "MSG option" is not working after the year 2012 in GLK --> the ECU saves fault-codes!
After test drive I did code scanning, no fault codes at all.
I'm safe to go.
In case anything goes south, just revert back to its default.
Then tried on my friend's 2013 C200, with using SIM271DE20
coding are "...Refused" ~~
Other than Seed/Key things, is there any way to do coding to such ECUs ?
Or where and how to get seed/key or where to buy ?
After test drive I did code scanning, no fault codes at all.
I'm safe to go.
In case anything goes south, just revert back to its default.
Then tried on my friend's 2013 C200, with using SIM271DE20
coding are "...Refused" ~~
Other than Seed/Key things, is there any way to do coding to such ECUs ?
Or where and how to get seed/key or where to buy ?
Yes, with the right CBF/VSB Files, you can "Unlock" the ECU and do coding.
With the normal CBF Files out of Xentry, you need to buy SeedKeys. For Example from many users on ******* Forum.
Yes, with the right CBF/VSB Files, you can "Unlock" the ECU and do coding.
With the normal CBF Files out of Xentry, you need to buy SeedKeys. For Example from many users on ******* Forum.
Do you have the right CBF for SIM271DE20 ?
Would you mind to share ?
Tks a lot.
This post assumes you have some knowledge of the software used. I'm not entirely comfortable making a full walk-through for beginners, as this is potentially risky.
After spending quite some time tinkering with and learning about DAS/Xentry/Vediamo, I believe I've almost completely solved my issues with throttle lag on my car. Since owning the car I've noticed that depending on how the car is driven, like through heavy traffic or on country roads, the throttle response to the gas pedal does not seem to stay consistent. For example, if I start off driving the car in stop and go traffic, the pedal seems to become "lazy"; next time I mash on the gas, there's a very noticeable delay in throttle input and sometimes the car doesn't shift down when it should, either in C or S mode. It was quite annoying, and on a few occasions, kind of risky. Aside from that there'd be a very noticeable difference in the way the car performed on a day to day basis, sometimes it felt sluggish, and other times it felt pretty quick. I really didn't like how it was unpredictable.
This is discussed in a threads like this, and it appears that ECU adaptations are the cause for this. I'm sure the adaptations would be effective in some cases, but where I live and how I drive, the adaptation process seems to have a difficult time calibrating the throttle response, and the result has been pretty undesirable to me. It seems others have the same issue, and have tried solving it doing the simple TCU reset. This reset does work, very temporarily. Every time I tried it, it'd help for a few drives but then it'd revert to sluggishness. I went over 10,000km after pulling the car battery and doing the TCU reset to see if the car needed a long time to "learn", and it did improve, but the inconsistency/unpredictability of the throttle input, and delay, still remained an issue.
I'm very glad to have spent the money getting a diagnostic multiplexer, as it's allowed me to learn quite a lot about how these cars operate. On top of that, I've done a bunch of tweaking to get things to how I'd like. If you have access to one, or know someone who does, the following tweaks have solved these problems for me. This could likely be accomplished in Xentry rather than Vediamo, but I was unable to get access to the necessary settings through Xentry myself. I Please note, I have no idea the effect this will have on warranty, as my car is completely out of any warranty..
MrScott52, a very helpful member of Benzworld and also possibly MBworld, posted a youtube guide on how to enable a few parameters to increase responsiveness of a diesel variant; these tweaks seem to make a difference with my 2.5L M272 w204 as well. (I'll link the video in a following reply.)
Attached below are the necessary parameter changes for the ME 9.7 ECU in Vediamo, which solved my issues with throttle delay (many listed in MrScott52's video), and here are the descriptions of each:
#1 (Lastschlagdaempfung) This is the most important one. This parameter seems to be the main culprit for the inconsistent feeling throttle response and sluggishness, and I believe it causes the wonky throttle body adaptations which I find so awful. Disabling it has removed most, if not all delay in throttle input. It is referred to as "load-reversal damping" in Vediamo (german), but it is the "Throttle Change Damping" parameter in Xentry. I changed this parameter about a month after the others, and it definitely had the most significant impact on throttle response, and now the throttle is very consistent in performance. I believe this parameter is more directly related to the actual throttle body than the gas pedal, unlike the next parameter.
#2 (Pedalkennlinie) This is the pedal curve parameter. My car had KLD4 as default. You can play with this, and possibly leave it at KLD4. However, I changed it to KLD2. From what I understand, KLD2 is meant for cars with a manual transmission, and as such, I'd expect the pedal curve to be the most "natural" feeling to the driver. In contrast, I believe KLD4 is more responsive, but "jumpier" (more erratic in terms of throttle input). Combining KLD4 with disabling the throttle change damping parameter may be undesirable in terms of comfort/consistency.
#3 (Momentenbegrenzung) This is the torque limit parameter. The main effect I've observed from disabling this is that the car doesn't reduce throttle/torque as much while cornering anymore, and the car seems to accelerate slightly faster from a standstill than before. May not be necessary to fix throttle delay, but I find it favourable.
#4 (Momentenerhoehung Getriebe) *This may already be set to the MSG option* This parameter is supplementary to #3. Like MrScott describes in his video, it allows the engine ECU to monitor torque output and send it to the transmission, but keeps it within safe/comfortable limits. I find this parameter to improve gear shifts very slightly; torque input and acceleration remains very steady throughout gear shifts. I believe it very slightly improves acceleration, even compared to only having the torque limiter disabled. Do not change this to the GSG setting. Doing so resulted in some very uncomfortable shifting. I'm not sure if there'd be a long term effect on the gearbox here, so just don't as a precaution. The option highlighted in black is the default setting - the ECU is not allowed to increase torque to the gearbox depending on measurement.
So got these 4 mods done yesterday at a place that has DAS/XENTRY/VEDIAMO, but when I showed him the screenshots, he said he can do them in DAS/XENTRY because he has a live/online subscription as well so we ended up changing them in DAS/XENTRY. We used Vediamo to change other settings such as changing the Information Cluster Temperature from F to C.
However, after driving the car for a while. I am not feeling the difference people saw here. Am I missing something? Did the changes maybe not save because it wasn't done in Vediamo? I saw with my bare eyes all the settings changed as per the OP then the settings changed via F3.
So got these 4 mods done yesterday at a place that has DAS/XENTRY/VEDIAMO, but when I showed him the screenshots, he said he can do them in DAS/XENTRY because he has a live/online subscription as well so we ended up changing them in DAS/XENTRY. We used Vediamo to change other settings such as changing the Information Cluster Temperature from F to C.
However, after driving the car for a while. I am not feeling the difference people saw here. Am I missing something? Did the changes maybe not save because it wasn't done in Vediamo? I saw with my bare eyes all the settings changed as per the OP then the settings changed via F3.
What do you guys think?
His procedure for making the changes is different from Vediamo but it should accomplish the same thing.. perhaps try the TCU reset after? I know now that 2013 and up already have these changes in place. But your 2012 should still benefit from them
His procedure for making the changes is different from Vediamo but it should accomplish the same thing.. perhaps try the TCU reset after? I know now that 2013 and up already have these changes in place. But your 2012 should still benefit from them
I'll do the TCU reset soon and revert back with updates. Thanks.
[QUOTE=Funkwagen;6680996]EDIT: Important, but for diesel w204s, M276 engines and models in general 2013+ , the lastschlagdaempfung parameter may already be disabled.
#1 (Lastschlagdaempfung) This is the most important one. This parameter seems to be the main culprit for the inconsistent feeling throttle response and sluggishness, and I believe it causes the wonky throttle body adaptations which I find so awful. Disabling it has removed most, if not all delay in throttle input. It is referred to as "load-reversal damping" in Vediamo (german), but it is the "Throttle Change Damping" parameter in Xentry. I changed this parameter about a month after the others, and it definitely had the most significant impact on throttle response, and now the throttle is very consistent in performance. I believe this parameter is more directly related to the actual throttle body than the gas pedal, unlike the next parameter.
#2 (Pedalkennlinie) This is the pedal curve parameter. My car had KLD4 as default. You can play with this, and possibly leave it at KLD4. However, I changed it to KLD2. From what I understand, KLD2 is meant for cars with a manual transmission, and as such, I'd expect the pedal curve to be the most "natural" feeling to the driver. In contrast, I believe KLD4 is more responsive, but "jumpier" (more erratic in terms of throttle input). Combining KLD4 with disabling the throttle change damping parameter may be undesirable in terms of comfort/consistency.
#3 (Momentenbegrenzung) This is the torque limit parameter. The main effect I've observed from disabling this is that the car doesn't reduce throttle/torque as much while cornering anymore, and the car seems to accelerate slightly faster from a standstill than before. May not be necessary to fix throttle delay, but I find it favourable.
#4 (Momentenerhoehung Getriebe) *This may already be set to the MSG option* This parameter is supplementary to #3. Like MrScott describes in his video, it allows the engine ECU to monitor torque output and send it to the transmission, but keeps it within safe/comfortable limits. I find this parameter to improve gear shifts very slightly; torque input and acceleration remains very steady throughout gear shifts. I believe it very slightly improves acceleration, even compared to only having the torque limiter disabled. Do not change this to the GSG setting. Doing so resulted in some very uncomfortable shifting. I'm not sure if there'd be a long term effect on the gearbox here, so just don't as a precaution. The option highlighted in black is the default setting - the ECU is not allowed to increase torque to the gearbox depending on measurement.
With all these parameters changed, I have my car performing the way I'd like it to. It's performance remains far more consistent, there's significantly less throttle lag, and it does actually accelerate faster (I've measured), but only very slightly. Starting off in C mode on an incline also no longer feels like as much of a strain. Now, all of this being said, if you have the tools and such to do this yourself, or know someone who can, you do so at your own risk. I've driven over 10,000km already without any negative effects of this, but I just don't want to be responsible if anything goes wrong. I can't imagine anything would, though. If you are willing to do this yourself, please be aware that there are many ecu parameters that are difficult to understand, and modifying them at all could potentially cause irreversible damage. I do not recommend making adjustments to any other unknown parameters without thoroughly researching their function and/or purpose. [quote end}
I stumbled over this thread after changing those setting my self. I was looking for something else, but this thread confirms my findings as well.
I can confirm that the above setting do work on my SL as well, and that the advantages are the same. In my car I had to disable # 1+3, #4 was already enabled. Did not touch #2
Drove with the above changes for 3 day's, and established a baseline. ( subjective ).
Further I found a setting called " Fahrdynamikpaket" translates into " Driving Dynamic Package" I have not been able to find any description on what it does, So I enable in order to find out what happen. My subjective opinion is as follows.
It works only in sport mode.
It stiffens the suspension.
The car seems to leans more into corners.
Throttle seems even more responsive, and so do up and downshifts.
Steering changes ratio, and becomes more direct, and tougher at higher speeds, is my feeling.
The fun factor has increased.
Based on the above, it might be a predecessor to "Dynamic", without any manual settings possible.
This is taken in simulation mode, did not think of doing it life.
I am not sure if this works with other ME97, but in theory it should, both on V6 and V8 engines. ( M272/273 ). Of cause everything that has to do with suspension requires either Airmatic or ABC I believe. Transmission wise, it has to be an automatic.
I know for MHH Auto or www.car-auto-repair.com , but i m having hard time finding new version of seed key calculator and lib data , do you know where to find them ?
2017 GLA 250, 2011 C63 P31 (p30 w/ lsd) (in repair), 2005 C230 Sport Eurocharged, 2003 C320~sold
Originally Posted by Crni01
I know for MHH Auto or www.car-auto-repair.com , but i m having hard time finding new version of seed key calculator and lib data , do you know where to find them ?
Just tried these tweaks on a W204 SIM271DE20 (M271 CGI). A seed generator is needed to gain access to variant coding.
The first 2 throttle response tweaks actually worsen throttle response and makes the car feel very heavy. I suspect the factory throttle mapping opens the throttle wider than expected around the 1500-2k RPM mark to get the turbo spooling.
The 2 tweaks relating to torque limits and gearbox are an improvement however. It holds power better during shifts.
09-25-2017, 11:59 AM
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