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Ah crap. Just had a look around the interweb for some more images of the pan and discovered this:
I'm guessing these three boltholes hold the endcap of the crankcase (part #125);
I feel sick now. I don't think I'm capable of dropping the gearbox, which will be necessary to get to those 3 bolts inside the bellhousing. All this work for nothing, and it looks like I should have just accepted the WIS in that it clearly says: "drop gearbox".
Anyone have some ideas?
K.
PS: The oil pan imaged that shows those 3 boltholes also has the damage on the bearing retainer....
Last edited by Kailee71; Apr 25, 2021 at 07:25 PM.
so I'm going to make a square washer also. As a design engineer I have acces to CAD and a local shop is able to make this for me cheaply and quickly. However I have two options; I can either machine in a small step to use the original retaining clip/ring (option 1), or just make it flat and hold the bearing directly with the aluminium and not use the steel clip ring (option 2)
I will grind down what is left of the wall that held the ring before so the plate will sit flush on top the bearing, but with option1 of course the surface it sits on is that much narrower (ca. 2mm around the hole). However with the retaining ring in place this would again be as wide as the other option, only difference being that there's the steel ring in contact with the bearing, not the softer aluminium.
What do you guys think? I think I would tend to go for the simpler option 2...
Ok so I had a nice piece of 5mm aluminium machined. It looked very good and so I carried on preparing the oil pan in prep of mounting... First filed off the bit of the rim that used to hold the clip ring flush with the surface that the ring sat on, then held the plate on to mark the hole locations, and drilled the holes before tapping M6 threads into them;
At the 9 o'clock you can just about make out the depth where the original mating surface for the clip ring was - I marked it all the way around with a sharpie so I could get it as close as possible. Next tapped the threads and test-fit the bearing. Turns out the bearing slid right in :-(. I was expecting (and hoping) there would be an interference fit but no such luck.
In fact the bearing has a tiny bit of space so might, on final assembly, put it in with loctite 660 in the hope this will keep it stable (any opinions on this, including which loctite, more than welcome!!!). Test mounting the plate (will get some shiny new M6x20s eTorx from Merc so at least they look they're meant to be there):
The bearing is still slightly loose, wobbles probably about 0.1mm. My plan is to sand another layer off the oilpan until the plate sits snug on the bearing. But I'm not sure that's the right way of doing it, plus over time I think it will work itself loose again as the bearing's steel will win hands--down against the plate's aluminium. Please if anyone has any idea how to best fix that - I'm all ears.
In the mean time... I received the new axle and intermediate shaft. The cv axle (while not OE) looks alright, but the shaft I'm not impressed with.
original cleaned up on the right, new china part on left...
Drivers side ^. Even though the original doesn't look perfect, with some scoring after having been "carefully" removed from the CV cup, it looks more comforting than the new china part. Same on the other (front diff) side:
Clearly the old bearing will go (have a new one waiting to be pressed on) before I continue. So I seperated the old CV shaft cup from the original intermediate shaft. The cup suffered a little from a gas flame and Thors hammer during removal, but no issue, it is junk anyway...
Also, on trying to re-insert the original shaft into the cup, it slides in relatively easily, whereas the China part is so stiff I think it would take a rubber mallet to convince it to go in. So - question to you all: would you also bin the "new" China part in favour of the used (230k km) original? Or would you use the China part anyway? (btw, no new OE parts available).
Oops - I got it wrong. The Shaft was not China, but Febest - supposedly OE-Quality. Still, am in favour of dumping it in favour of the well used but in good shape original. What do you guys say?
In this picture where I have circled there is a hex head cover (14mm I believe) that is about 20mm in diameter. Also one one the other side. When removed you will have access straight up to additional bolt holding pan to engine block
However, after reading the rest of your posts I see the issue with the 3 bolts that will require gearbox removed and your work around.
As far as the intermediate shaft goes, as long as the splines are in good shape I would just reuse old one. I used a new one with bearing pre-installed and I had to put it in the freezer for a few hours to shrink the bearing just enough to slide in. It would not easily fit otherwise and I did not want to drive it in and risk damaging new pan....
Last edited by GunDriver; May 2, 2021 at 04:07 PM.
yes I found the plugged-up bolt also (used a torx60 on it, fit perfectly), but it was eventually the ones *inside* the bellhousing that stopped me in my tracks. Anyway. I'm just going to put it all back together, replace some parts while i'm there (not the intermediate anymore), I've got a bunch of new bolts ordered (propshaft to diff, diff to engine and oilpan/bracket - only one needed replacing according to wis, but guess who didn't mark the ones coming out...). A couple of other bits also on their way (oilpan lower, mine warped ever so slightly on removal), then just re-assembly.
W204 C200, BMW E30 M3, 1980Gt Mini, Toyota Corona, KTM 200 EXC.
I think I would instal the bearing with some grease not locktite just to stop any corrosion from moisture build up and allow any slight movement with thermal expansion or alignment issues.
I think I'm coming to the realization that my issue with getting the aftermarket CV axle over the aftermarket intermediate shaft is going to be nearly impossible. Your observation about it seems to sum up what I was thinking - the tolerances are just too tight.
Going to have to try to remove the OE CV axle cup from the OE intermediate shaft and see how the CV slides on the OE intermediate shaft; It's hours of frustration thus far.
Last edited by Imrandyru; May 11, 2021 at 02:09 PM.
be *very* careful. Don't try to remove the cv axle from the intermediate while in the car!!!! Take them both out together (it's just a simple clipring in the oil pan that needs removing), then heat, hammer, do whatever to get them apart. On a side note, I discarded my new non-OE intermediate as the used OE looked better even after 200k+ km.
Status update.
So the front diff went back on a few days ago. Then drained (didn't want to poor the oil out the side as would be v messy), refilled with 0,55l.
(Control arms etc will be replaced soon so I'm not worrying about them just hanging around)
Next was intermediate shaft. When the bearing was on the intermediate it suddenly decided to sit *real* nice and flush. No wobbling whatsoever. Yay.
New snap ring on end (do people really replace these *every* time?), then the retainer plate back on...
(couldn't get any OE M6x20 eTorx from local dealer so threw in the stainless torx ones I had for now). While it's out, fixing the slight surface rust on the subframe;
Looks real nice now after paint, especially the front bits that hold the radiator (sorry no pics).
be *very* careful. Don't try to remove the cv axle from the intermediate while in the car!!!! Take them both out together (it's just a simple clipring in the oil pan that needs removing), then heat, hammer, do whatever to get them apart. On a side note, I discarded my new non-OE intermediate as the used OE looked better even after 200k+ km.
After beating on it quite a bit, I came to that realization. I have the aftermarket shaft installed now without any pan damage, thankfully. Going to see about popping that spring clip and aftermarket shaft out and putting the OE back in after I get the old CV cup off of it. The CV axle will simply not go over the aftermarket shaft.
Cautionary message is much appreciated.
Last edited by Imrandyru; May 11, 2021 at 02:09 PM.
To get the CV cup off the intermediate I soaked it in WD40 for a couple of days, then held the cup over a gas cooker for about 5-10 mins (have no acetylene torch). After that, a few good hard blows downwards with the big hammer whilst holding the shaft almost vertical unsettled it and it then moved off slowly, but evenly, with further taps. It was hard work but certainly not impossible. The intermediate looked pretty good after some clean up (still had some rust), and I chose it above the aftermarket one on impression. Never even tried to fit my new aftermarket CV axle (which looked fine) on the aftermarket itermediate.
Moral of the story - if I can do it, anyone can. Never give up, keep at it!
CV cup came off the OEM shaft with a few gentle taps around the back of it. Finally received a CV axle that fits over the shaft so putting it back together today.
Just to let everyone know - I've been driving this hack for holding the CV shaft bearing in the oil pan around now for 2-3000kms. No bad side effects - yet. Keeping fingers firmly crossed.
So - 18 months later, some 50k extra on the clock, and the bearing worked itself loose and spat all the ***** out. Needless to say I was nearly stranded, just about made it to a garage nearby. Will have to ask them to take a look in more detail as I have no time at the moment to do it myself. Hopefully no damage to oilpan or axles, and if so, I'll replace the bearing, re-drill the holes, retap with M8 (the lower bolts got pushed out about 2-3mm), and hope for the best. May have some pictures when it's apart... However this is in Germany, and I did quite a few km's at high speed (which I will from now on avoid...). Let's see if it's salvageable, if the pan is still ok, or up for parts.
so I'm going to make a square washer also. As a design engineer I have acces to CAD and a local shop is able to make this for me cheaply and quickly. However I have two options; I can either machine in a small step to use the original retaining clip/ring (option 1), or just make it flat and hold the bearing directly with the aluminium and not use the steel clip ring (option 2)
I will grind down what is left of the wall that held the ring before so the plate will sit flush on top the bearing, but with option1 of course the surface it sits on is that much narrower (ca. 2mm around the hole). However with the retaining ring in place this would again be as wide as the other option, only difference being that there's the steel ring in contact with the bearing, not the softer aluminium.
What do you guys think? I think I would tend to go for the simpler option 2...
Thankls in advance,
Kai.
Kai! Brilliant solution! Would you bee interested to share the CAD file?
So - 18 months later, some 50k extra on the clock, and the bearing worked itself loose and spat all the ***** out. Needless to say I was nearly stranded, just about made it to a garage nearby. Will have to ask them to take a look in more detail as I have no time at the moment to do it myself. Hopefully no damage to oilpan or axles, and if so, I'll replace the bearing, re-drill the holes, retap with M8 (the lower bolts got pushed out about 2-3mm), and hope for the best. May have some pictures when it's apart... However this is in Germany, and I did quite a few km's at high speed (which I will from now on avoid...). Let's see if it's salvageable, if the pan is still ok, or up for parts.
Kai.
I just stumbled upon this epic thread. If you're still around on the forum, What ended up happening with this?
2008 c300 4 matic...Any suggestions on how to remove the intermediate shaft from the differential? I removed the retaining ring and attached a slide hammer and I can't get the shaft with the bearings to come out. Any one do this job that can offer any suggestions?
So - 18 months later, some 50k extra on the clock, and the bearing worked itself loose and spat all the ***** out. Needless to say I was nearly stranded, just about made it to a garage nearby. Will have to ask them to take a look in more detail as I have no time at the moment to do it myself. Hopefully no damage to oilpan or axles, and if so, I'll replace the bearing, re-drill the holes, retap with M8 (the lower bolts got pushed out about 2-3mm), and hope for the best. May have some pictures when it's apart... However this is in Germany, and I did quite a few km's at high speed (which I will from now on avoid...). Let's see if it's salvageable, if the pan is still ok, or up for parts.
Kai.
Great job. Im going to have to do this job on my 2013 cl550.
Problem is my bearing housing is worn from bearing seizing, thus shuddered in bearing housing until sliding out 4 inches. I thought the shuddering was my torque converter & the was transmission shot. After getting a closer look i was relieved to see it was the intermediate shaft that separated.
I Might need a bearing sleeve. They sell larger non standard bearings 30x56x13 instead of standard 30x55x13mm.
Even the inner diameter (id) 30mm & od (outer diameter)56mm is not fitting snuggly.
Not sure if they make a 30x57x13 mm bearing. I might not need a sleeve w snap ring groove. I might just mill housing & get a bigger OD outer diameter non standard bearing.
Need to make sure Bearing is really centered. So no vibrations or wobbling occurs & causes more damage.
What caused your modified bearing plate or bearing to break apart? Heat? Loose plate bolt caused bearing to spin off center? Any advice or tips greatly appreciated. What would u do seeing my intermediate shaft bearing housing wear?
I learned alot from your post & decided to also create a plate as bearing retainer. Any tips or advice? Loctite Retainer gel, Temperature issues, plate bolts loosening, or just replacing bearing as normal maintenance being a heavy wear part. Thank you
Avi
So - 18 months later, some 50k extra on the clock, and the bearing worked itself loose and spat all the ***** out. Needless to say I was nearly stranded, just about made it to a garage nearby. Will have to ask them to take a look in more detail as I have no time at the moment to do it myself. Hopefully no damage to oilpan or axles, and if so, I'll replace the bearing, re-drill the holes, retap with M8 (the lower bolts got pushed out about 2-3mm), and hope for the best. May have some pictures when it's apart... However this is in Germany, and I did quite a few km's at high speed (which I will from now on avoid...). Let's see if it's salvageable, if the pan is still ok, or up for parts.
Kai.
Great job. Im going to have to do this job on my 2013 cl550.
Problem is my bearing housing is worn from bearing seizing, thus shuddered in bearing housing until sliding out 4 inches. I thought the shuddering was my torque converter & the was transmission shot. After getting a closer look i was relieved to see it was the intermediate shaft that separated.
I Might need a bearing sleeve. They sell larger non standard bearings 30x56x13 instead of standard 30x55x13mm.
Even the larger od (outer diameter)56mm bearing is not fitting snuggly into bearing housing. Believe it or not i was able to save tow fee again w JB weld putty. I was able to press putty around outer bearing & over snap ring holding a while now. Must be really centered & stable. Temporarily its getting me around.
Not sure if they make a 30x57x13 mm bearing. I might not need a sleeve w snap ring groove. I might just mill housing & get a bigger OD outer diameter non standard bearing.
Need to make sure Bearing is really centered. So no vibrations or wobbling occurs & causes more damage.
What caused your modified bearing plate or bearing to break apart? Heat? Loose plate bolt caused bearing to spin off center? Any advice or tips greatly appreciated. What would u do seeing my intermediate shaft bearing housing wear?
I learned alot from your post & decided to also create a plate as bearing retainer. Any tips or advice? Loctite Retainer gel, Temperature issues, plate bolts loosening, or just replacing bearing as normal maintenance being a heavy wear part. Thank you
Avi
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