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Yeah, I bought them on ebay for around 350. It's a little tricky to install the cross over box as there is virtually no room for it. But after it's installed, it sounds so much better. I compared it to Burmester and I couldn't tell the difference. Now if I have to go back to base speakers, I'd probably die.
Yeah, I bought them on ebay for around 350. It's a little tricky to install the cross over box as there is virtually no room for it. But after it's installed, it sounds so much better. I compared it to Burmester and I couldn't tell the difference. Now if I have to go back to base speakers, I'd probably die.
I think if you go to a Media screen and scroll down to the little musical note icon in the lower right corner it will bring up tone controls in the Audio 20. It's been awhile since I've been in one.
I just came back from my local audio shop. We opened the center console to measure the speaker wires coming out of the Audio 20 unit. The impedance was under 1 ohm so it means that the Audio 20 has an amp somewhere in the back, just as the Burmester does. Of course it's a crappy amp but it's there. The funny thing was that out of the ISO connector on the Audio 20 they have 5 pairs of wires coming out of 4 pairs of connectors. So 5 signal pairs are going into the amp. The next step is to find the amp in the back and see how easy it is to replace it. It seems to be under the fuse box.
Does anyone know what kind of amp they use for the Audio 20? Is it a 5 channel? Separate channel for the sub?
It's in the trunk, under the well cover, small silver box in a rack on the right hand side, top unit. The system is standard 4ohm. 4 door speakers and 1 8" sub for channels.
The place where you're showing the factory amp on your photo is empty on my car. It seems that the basic audio amp is below the fuse box. I'll have a look tomorrow morning.
That sucks. There's lots of room in the trunk for accessing the speaker out leads and adding aftermarket stuff. If you could post back maybe with some pics I'll add it to my 205 audio blog.
We're having the same conversation on two pages
But the mystery deepens for me. There's no amp in the back, but the wires coming from the HU don't seem to be connected directly to the speakers. There's something there...
That slim vertical mounted white box on the left is a likely culprit. It would be unusual for MB to use different locations for A20 vs Burmester. They tend to use common harnesses in stuff. Do the speaker wire color codes show up in that big clump coming from that white box?
Edit. Never mind. My Burmester has it as well. Dang.
I just came back from my local audio shop. We opened the center console to measure the speaker wires coming out of the Audio 20 unit. The impedance was under 1 ohm so it means that the Audio 20 has an amp somewhere in the back, just as the Burmester does. Of course it's a crappy amp but it's there. The funny thing was that out of the ISO connector on the Audio 20 they have 5 pairs of wires coming out of 4 pairs of connectors. So 5 signal pairs are going into the amp. The next step is to find the amp in the back and see how easy it is to replace it. It seems to be under the fuse box.
Does anyone know what kind of amp they use for the Audio 20? Is it a 5 channel? Separate channel for the sub?
5th pair of dark violet wires from the ISO
Just thinking that resistance (ohms) is a function of the speaker voice coil, so measuring it at the head unit might not tell you anything. It's possible the amp is part of the HU.
I went to the local MB dealer today, and yes, you're right. They confirmed that the amp is integrated into the HU. The strange thing for me is (as I wrote above) that the HU has a standard 4 channel ISO connector with 5 pairs of wires coming out. The 5th pair seems to be the woofer connected to the FL+ and FR-.
But back to what you said, shouldn't the resistance be 4ohm when you measure at the ISO connector (which should in theory be connected directly to the speakers)?
I went to the local MB dealer today, and yes, you're right. They confirmed that the amp is integrated into the HU. The strange thing for me is (as I wrote above) that the HU has a standard 4 channel ISO connector with 5 pairs of wires coming out. The 5th pair seems to be the woofer connected to the FL+ and FR-.
But back to what you said, shouldn't the resistance be 4ohm when you measure at the ISO connector (which should in theory be connected directly to the speakers)?
Yeah, I think it should be no different connecting to the ISO than directly to the posts on the speaker. It's possible they're using a really low resistance speaker. I had a car once that boasted a "400 Watt" system, but the speakers were all 2 ohm. Then again the guy that replaced the OEM 4" with the Focal KRS100 would have gotten almost nothing out of them if that were the case and he said he got good output.
I guess pull a door panel and see what they have in there. My guess would be it's the same flimsy paper cone 4" in the "Burmester". Hard to imagine anything even less robust. Makes sense to pull sub signal from combining polarity from two channels like that.
I replaced the front 4'' with Focals as well. That's why it's even stranger to get sub 1ohm resistance. And you're right. Almost the same paper cone speaker as in the Burmester. Weighed 15g... Terrible...
I just bought these from Crutchfield for $450 (new). The Focal KRS100's are now discontinued so good time to buy while they last.
After reading several threads, I'm still a bit confused. Can these Focals work "as is" with our stock amp? I have the standard stereo, non-Burmeister.
Originally Posted by huyuci
Yeah, I bought them on ebay for around 350. It's a little tricky to install the cross over box as there is virtually no room for it. But after it's installed, it sounds so much better. I compared it to Burmester and I couldn't tell the difference. Now if I have to go back to base speakers, I'd probably die.
Yes they do work. But since they're 4ohm and the stock speakers are 2ohm, the Focals will pull a lot of the power so the back speakers become too quiet. That in itself isn't a problem. The main issue with the system is the built in setup. It's too bass heavy (with a poor stock subwoofer). You're left with a "hole" between 120 and 200Hz I would say, and a muddy, sloppy low end. The only cure is an amp with a DSP. That's my next step. I'll either go with a Prima 8.9, like Mike, or a Match 5DSP by Fischer.
Don't get me wrong, there's a big difference with the Focals, but it just makes you notice the terrible bass even more.
Well the kicker is those are the same speakers that are in the Burmester system. Exactly the same. So what distinguishes the Burmester is simply more speakers and an external amp. And nicer grilles. Remarkable!
So since the speakers...whether Burmester or A20...use a harman/kardon form factor, they can be replaced by a line of speakers developed by Focal as drop in replacements for BMW. They'll work in the 205 with some minor mod to the terminals.
There are sets on EBay for around 1k, which isn't bad since retail for each 8" woofer is $550.
Put the 2 ways in the front doors, coaxials in the rear, two subs up front. Done. Add a 6 channel amp pulling signal right from the HU. It would kill a stock Burmester.
These were built to run off the factory amp in an H/K system which aren't powerhouses by any stretch but they'll be 4 ohm. Their output will be halved vs the 2 ohm. Short version, they'll need an external amp.
In the C450 the Burmester amp is on the passenger side of the trunk just behind the wheel well. Looking at Mike's picture it is behind where his Prima is located, you can just make out purple release for the cable connector. You might want to check to see if there's anything there in non-Burmester cars. The box that is labeled factory amp in his picture is what I believe is the Sirius and maybe HD Radio tuner.
In the C450 the Burmester amp is on the passenger side of the trunk just behind the wheel well. Looking at Mike's picture it is behind where his Prima is located, you can just make out purple release for the cable connector. You might want to check to see if there's anything there in non-Burmester cars. The box that is labeled factory amp in his picture is what I believe is the Sirius and maybe HD Radio tuner.
I think you're absolutely right, my pic is labeled wrong. That big purple lever and connector is typically found on the output side of the factory amp. So in an A20 car someone needs to see if they have anything there. My guess is they do. I've never had a Benz without an amp in the trunk. Guess I better go edit that pic.
Thanks that is good news. So I read Mike's install .pdf about issues finding slim 4" speaker for rear doors. I would be happy with the Focals in front drawing more power accordingly.
So the amp is under the center console or is it that vertical white box near fuse box?
And has anyone else had any luck finding slim 4" co-axials for rear doors?
Originally Posted by vladarh
Yes they do work. But since they're 4ohm and the stock speakers are 2ohm, the Focals will pull a lot of the power so the back speakers become too quiet. That in itself isn't a problem. The main issue with the system is the built in setup. It's too bass heavy (with a poor stock subwoofer). You're left with a "hole" between 120 and 200Hz I would say, and a muddy, sloppy low end. The only cure is an amp with a DSP. That's my next step. I'll either go with a Prima 8.9, like Mike, or a Match 5DSP by Fischer.
Don't get me wrong, there's a big difference with the Focals, but it just makes you notice the terrible bass even more.
03-20-2016, 08:40 PM
