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on sport+ i can attest that the ride is pretty stiff and if you hit a pothole or manhole cover, you definitely "feel it". I try to avoid them as much as possible but sometimes you just can't.
The question is how short the adjustable links?
We carefully measure all the levelling sensor travels before delivering cars to customers.
If it is not measured carefully when you hit a pothole or when you lift the car you can easily brake a sensor due to lack of sensor travel.
The question is how short the adjustable links?
We carefully measure all the levelling sensor travels before delivering cars to customers.
If it is not measured carefully when you hit a pothole or when you lift the car you can easily brake a sensor due to lack of sensor travel.
No you can´t, there are plenty of travel left in both directions.
I want to lower for about 2cm, how much should I set on links? They are different for front and rear suspension.. There is lack of good instructions :-(
Hi guys if you don't have airmatic, is there anyway i can lower the car? don't want to drop it too much. just wondering how much if i have airmatic installed?? nice to have one.
Thanks Vic!! Btw am planning to change rims. Am debating on 20s or stay with 19s.. I like 20s looks very nice for w205 but dont know if it would affeft the ride?? Don't want to trade performance vs looks.. Mybe you advice me thanks
If you dont have airmatic lowering springs or adjustable coilovers is the way to go.
Hi Vic! you are using 20s rims on your c400? whats your tire specs and the rims width? front and rear? was planning to upgrade to 20s but still want to maintain same or close over all diameter and lower the car a little bit.. maybe you can help me. what are my options Thanks.
Cool i just got here to see if this still worked on the new c-class. Pretty awesome and thank you!
Just to clarify! Is it still the normal adjustable linkage that u use or are these bent in any way?
I've driven an S Class on air in one form or another since 2007. I've dropped a 220 on links. On the S, not sure the C, there is no coil over spring on the struts, just the air bag.
Air serves three functions on an AirMatic car. It can compensate for load, keeping the ride height level as the load (even a full gas tank) changes.
It provides a gentler rebound than a steel spring, and allows the suspension to absorb more surface variations with very little getting transferred to the cabin.
It can firm up handling and improve aerodynamics at highway speeds by lowering the car. (Highways tend to be smooth, so the added firmness isn't especially noticeable.)
From a physics standpoint, the air in the bags is the steel in the springs on a non air car. Too much air would be a stiff spring. Too little air would be no spring at all.
The system uses a compressor, a reservoir and a controller to keep the right amount of air in the bags. It can be quickly vented and almost as quickly replaced. The controller relies on voltage readings from sensors at the wheels. Based on the voltage being returned by the sensor, the controller knows the ride height in real time.
It then compensates to maintain the desired ride height. Links trick the sensors by causing the sensors to return a voltage consistent with the ride height being too high. The car responds by lowering itself.
There can be a marked effect on ride quality. Evacuating air from the bag is no different than weakening or removing a steel coil from a conventional suspension. Eventually you have nothing holding the car up off the suspension.
Dropped cars look great, but they don't ride anywhere near as gently. It's physics. You've removed the resilient material that isolates the cabin from the suspension.
When an AirMatic car goes from a comfort to a sport setting, it simply puts less air in the bags. The car drops an inch, improving handling by making the struts firmer. It makes the ride more comfortable by adding air.
When you drop the car, you're simply pushing the Sport setting to a new extreme, which causes a somewhat firm ride to become an extremely firm ride.
There is no way to decouple a drop from a degradation in ride comfort. Think of it as two ends of a rope. If you pull it two inches from one end, it gets two inches shorter at the other end.
Do I recommend a drop? I've found that a modest drop has little affect on ride, but also little visual impact. I've also found that on a drop that pretty chrome blade on your front bumper will eventually become a bulldozer blade on a curb stop, or get torn off on a shallow grade.
If you like the look of a drop when parked or at slow speed, a LoPro Module rather than links will let you make infinite ride height adjustments using the steering wheel controls, and it can be programmed to restore the OEM ride height north of whatever trigger speed you set.
If I were to mess with a drop again, that's how I do it. Meanwhile, last month my 221 decided to be a tough guy and drop himself. I nursed it home. It was bouncing around so bad I thought my teeth were coming out.
I've driven an S Class on air in one form or another since 2007. I've dropped a 220 on links. On the S, not sure the C, there is no coil over spring on the struts, just the air bag.
Air serves three functions on an AirMatic car. It can compensate for load, keeping the ride height level as the load (even a full gas tank) changes.
It provides a gentler rebound than a steel spring, and allows the suspension to absorb more surface variations with very little getting transferred to the cabin.
It can firm up handling and improve aerodynamics at highway speeds by lowering the car. (Highways tend to be smooth, so the added firmness isn't especially noticeable.)
From a physics standpoint, the air in the bags is the steel in the springs on a non air car. Too much air would be a stiff spring. Too little air would be no spring at all.
The system uses a compressor, a reservoir and a controller to keep the right amount of air in the bags. It can be quickly vented and almost as quickly replaced. The controller relies on voltage readings from sensors at the wheels. Based on the voltage being returned by the sensor, the controller knows the ride height in real time.
It then compensates to maintain the desired ride height. Links trick the sensors by causing the sensors to return a voltage consistent with the ride height being too high. The car responds by lowering itself.
There can be a marked effect on ride quality. Evacuating air from the bag is no different than weakening or removing a steel coil from a conventional suspension. Eventually you have nothing holding the car up off the suspension.
Dropped cars look great, but they don't ride anywhere near as gently. It's physics. You've removed the resilient material that isolates the cabin from the suspension.
When an AirMatic car goes from a comfort to a sport setting, it simply puts less air in the bags. The car drops an inch, improving handling by making the struts firmer. It makes the ride more comfortable by adding air.
When you drop the car, you're simply pushing the Sport setting to a new extreme, which causes a somewhat firm ride to become an extremely firm ride.
There is no way to decouple a drop from a degradation in ride comfort. Think of it as two ends of a rope. If you pull it two inches from one end, it gets two inches shorter at the other end.
Do I recommend a drop? I've found that a modest drop has little affect on ride, but also little visual impact. I've also found that on a drop that pretty chrome blade on your front bumper will eventually become a bulldozer blade on a curb stop, or get torn off on a shallow grade.
If you like the look of a drop when parked or at slow speed, a LoPro Module rather than links will let you make infinite ride height adjustments using the steering wheel controls, and it can be programmed to restore the OEM ride height north of whatever trigger speed you set.
If I were to mess with a drop again, that's how I do it. Meanwhile, last month my 221 decided to be a tough guy and drop himself. I nursed it home. It was bouncing around so bad I thought my teeth were coming out.
You are correct in your observations but there is one thing you need to remember, the older airmatic systems relied heavily on reducing or redirecting air when wanting a stiffer ride, the W211 even used a separate air reservoir for this.
However the W205 also uses a modern active shock absorber in combination with airmatic, when selecting S or S+ the shock makes the ride firmer in combination with lower airbags.
Even though I have lowered my vehicle I still have the possibility to use Comfort mode hence the shocks operating in a normal fashion and the ride is not very much harder than a car with untouched airmatic in Comfort mode.
I have the ability to compare this as I drive stock airmatic cars every other day.
You are correct in your observations but there is one thing you need to remember, the older airmatic systems relied heavily on reducing or redirecting air when wanting a stiffer ride, the W211 even used a separate air reservoir for this.
However the W205 also uses a modern active shock absorber in combination with airmatic, when selecting S or S+ the shock makes the ride firmer in combination with lower airbags.
Even though I have lowered my vehicle I still have the possibility to use Comfort mode hence the shocks operating in a normal fashion and the ride is not very much harder than a car with untouched airmatic in Comfort mode.
I have the ability to compare this as I drive stock airmatic cars every other day.
Electronic shocks with variable selectable damping are standard on the C450 and C63. I'm pretty sure a C300 on AirMatic or on a steel suspension does not get adjustable shocks. The dynamic suspension settings in Agility are simply raising or lowering the car. Sport and Sport + are just the determining the extent of the drop. You have struts with an air bag instead of a coil over spring.
Less air=firmer ride. A firm ride isn't bad, because it sharpens handling, but that's what the Sport and Sport + settings are doing.
BMW e89 Z4 sDrive 35i & MB S205 C200 AMG Premium Plus
Originally Posted by Mike5215
Electronic shocks with variable selectable damping are standard on the C450 and C63. I'm pretty sure a C300 on AirMatic or on a steel suspension does not get adjustable shocks. The dynamic suspension settings in Agility are simply raising or lowering the car. Sport and Sport + are just the determining the extent of the drop. You have struts with an air bag instead of a coil over spring.
Less air=firmer ride. A firm ride isn't bad, because it sharpens handling, but that's what the Sport and Sport + settings are doing.
Well I did qualify it with "I believe..." If the C300 with AirMatic also got magnetic shocks I'd be happy to look at whatever material you've got.
This is the description of the AirMatic option on the W205. The image depicts the typical air strut design MB has used for the past 15 years. The black cylinders on the top are the air chambers. Conventional strut below. Nothing indicates variable dampening shocks.
Well I did qualify it with "I believe..." If the C300 with AirMatic also got magnetic shocks I'd be happy to look at whatever material you've got.
This is the description of the AirMatic option on the W205. The image depicts the typical air strut design MB has used for the past 15 years. The black cylinders on the top are the air chambers. Conventional strut below. Nothing indicates variable dampening shocks.
I really do not understand what you are aiming at here, but as ManiacGT mentioned, please leave assumptions out of discussins regarding this issue.
I have never said that steel sprung W205.s had active damping, but Airmatic vehicles do, here is a section from the W205 Airmatic function description in WIS:
"Variable damping, function
The electronically regulated, continuous damping system operates fully automatically. In comparison to the conventional suspension, it provides improved driving comfort and driving safety. Damping is set harder or softer by the electronics of the AIRmatic control unit depending on the driving situation. If the sensor system records a sporty driving style for example, the comfortable basic damping becomes harder automatically. This automatic program can be set by the driver via the AGILITY SELECT switch (up to model year 2016) or with the DYNAMIC SELECT switch (as of model year 2016) in the left lower control panel (with automatic transmission) or in the right lower control panel (with manual transmission). The signals from the AGILITY SELECT switch (up to model year 2016) or DYNAMIC SELECT switch (as of model year 2016) are read in by the left lower control panel (with automatic transmission) or right lower control panel (with manual transmission). The left lower control panel (with automatic transmission) or the right lower control panel (with manual transmission) sends the signal via the LCP LIN, the Audio/ COMAND control panel, the telematics CAN, the head unit, the user interface CAN, the electronic ignition lock control unit and the chassis FlexRay to the AIRMATIC control unit. The LEDs are actuated in the opposite direction. The electronics works continuously within a broadly spread damping performance map. The damping force is adapted individually and automatically at each wheel to the current requirements, the road condition and the driving conditions. As a result, the vehicle rolls smoothly even on poor road surfaces, without impairing driving stability. The AIRmatic control unit uses the left front level sensor, right front level sensor, left rear level sensor and right rear level sensor to determine the current vehicle level and shock absorber speeds. The AIRMATIC control unit uses the signals from the left front body acceleration sensor, the right front body acceleration sensor and the rear left body acceleration sensor to calculate the body acceleration and the body speed of the vehicle. Based on the input signals, the AIRmatic control unit determines the optimum damping stage for each shock absorber and directly actuates the left front axle damping valve unit, right front axle damping valve unit, left rear axle damping valve unit and right rear axle damping valve unit accordingly. These can be adjusted for each wheel, i.e the damping can be adjusted continuously at each individual wheel"
However the W205 also uses a modern active shock absorber in combination with airmatic, when selecting S or S+ the shock makes the ride firmer in combination with lower airbags.
I don't think that's correct. There is a conventional "dumb" shock absorber with a fixed level of resistance that is entirely unaffected by the "Dynamic Select" settings. Any discussion of variable dampening in the MB literature refers to adjustments made by the AirMatic controller to the amount of air in the system.
Selecting "Sport" reduces the air in the chamber atop the shock, lowering the car and firming up the ride relative to the normal "Comfort" setting. Selecting "Sport +" further reduces the air in the chamber, further lowering the car and further firming up the ride relative to "Comfort" or "Sport."
As far as I can tell, any user-selectable range of adjustment in the system exists only in the air springs' like it has in AirMatic systems since MB started using them. As a result, I don't thing the shock absorbers can independently compensate for lowering the car.
As in any AirMatic system, lowering the car by forcing the sensors to report erroneously that the car is higher than it actually is causes the controller to respond by lowering the car past its designed threshold by reducing the amount of nominal air in the chamber. Less air = firmer ride. Physics.
It's possible to evacuate so much air from the chamber that the car is essentially riding directly on the shock absorbers, at which point a Mercedes ceases to ride anything like a Mercedes.
Yes, on a dropped car you will still get same the three levels of adjustment to relative firmness you had previously, they're just now relative to a much firmer starting point.
Personally, I love the way a dropped car looks, including yours, but it's very easy for an owner to look at a picture of a dropped car and not realize how badly degraded the ride comfort on that car is. You may find it tolerable or even preferable, but it should be made clear to anyone contemplating a drop that their car is going to ride proportionally stiffer. The bigger the drop, the worse it gets.
Are you kidding me right now?, did you even read the quote I posted?
The W205 Airmatic system uses active shock absorbers, each shock valve (Y51,Y52,Y53 and Y54) are connected to the Airmatic Control Unit N51/3 via Flexray channel E.
Each Airmatic bellows has two individual solenoids (y1 and y2) also connected via Flexray
But hey, who am I to know this?, I just work at Mercedes with acces to all their systems, and own a car with Airmatic.
Just as Eilers, self appointed expert come to tell me how a lowered W205 with Airmatic works, runs and behaves. incredible!
On W205 with ADS II, The sensors adjusts the air springs, not the dampers.
From Mercedes: "The semi-active air suspension AIRMATIC offers improved operating safety and tire noise/vibration compared with a conventional steel-spring system.
Whether you prefer a sporty or comfortable ride, the electronically controlled semi-active AIRMATIC air suspension with ADS II adaptive dampening system operates fully automatically. The electronics system adjusts the air springs, making them harder or softer to suit the situation. If, for example, the sensors register a sporty driving style, the comfortable base suspension is automatically stiffened. The suspension and damping system can also be manually adjusted to sporty/comfortable at the flip of a switch.
The electronics system uses four different damping levels (ADS II) to automatically align the damping force at each wheel with the current load and road conditions. An integrated all-round level control system ensures virtually consistent ground clearance – and greater stability – even if the vehicle is carrying a full load."
EDIT: found a photo of what is presented as an actual W205 airmatic strut, which shows it has a seperate damper reservoir with plugs top and bottom. If this indeed is the W205 part, I would definitely assume the dampers can be controlled electronically, which means vic viper is correct.
Still it does not correlate with the explanation offerd by Mercedes, which only mentions that air springs are adjusted.
If you have Airmatic, then the Agility switch determines ride height anyway. If you don't have Airmatic, you can't affect ride height through the various modes. These links just offset the level sensors so the car goes lower than standard in each of the modes.
It's been posted before, but here's a video of the height change in each agility mode
Here is a similar video, but from different angles. The tyres are 225/45x18. Skip to the relevant part.
07-16-2015, 11:00 AM
