Sarge,CD

I have had the seats washed three times and numerous times by the clothes I was wearing. Still came back and as a matter of fact the other day with a vengence. Called MB Canada,they kept saying to go to the dealership they will take care of it, went to the dealership and lost a gasket. They took my C300 and gave me a demo car in the meantime. Nice but not MY car. Asked when to expect my car to be ready........nothing , they do not know. They said I will keep the demo car till mine is done. A solution for now but still NOT MY CAR. I am very disappointed with MB corporate for leaving it to the dealership to take care of it. What happens when leases or when they want to flip your car for a new one,the salespeople will be hit by me and others wondering what will go wrong with this new one. I keep thnking I could have bought a less expensive car and guess what??? I would be able to drive it, there is something wrong with that ....

KLF

Update form me on 2/19/2015.

As of today, my new seats arrive tomorrow. They will be installed by the dealership and I will have my car back in about 4 days.

At that time, the temperatures here in Philly will still be pretty cold. Cold enough to see if the seats will bleed.

Alex.currie44

MB Tex being vinyl and having spent my career making cover stocks to sew in with leather my suspicion is MB bought a batch or series of batches of seats from their supplier who got material loaded with compounding errors or low grade plasticizers. Low grad plasticizers are small molecules vs, good ones and since they float around in the matrix they will bloom to the surface. When this happens they will lift the clear coat whic is what I see here. In addition too much stabilizer will bloom with it.
No fix is available. Replacement is the only way to go.

solarflare

Wow, thanks for the information. This makes me even more disappointed with MB USA. If this is the case, then there should be a notification sent to all affected customer and get it replaced. Instead, most will find out the hard way. There are way too few people on this forum compared to number sold!

coladin

My dealer has 8 MB-Tex orders that they are waiting for...they claim it was a defective spray, not the seat itself. Still, that is a lot of cars just from one dealership.

Alex.currie44

Not buying a defective "spray". This stuff gets coated after the cover sheet is made and spraying is too wasteful a technique. This is done by gravure processes.
Until they show evidence of something to the contrary I will stick with the compound used to make the vinyl.
It is just too ugly to be the top coat.

StanNH

Your dealer has a very active imagination. Even MB says it's the plasticizer in the MB-Tex material that is the cause of the problem.

Jazzdad

All,

Below is the email I sent to my rep at MB USA three weeks ago. No response so far, and I've now followed up twice. Others may consider doing the same. Plagiarism is allowed!


As I have asked, please provide all technical and chemicalinformation related to the ongoing situation with the seats in the 2015 C 300.As you know, my car has now been at the dealer for repairs longer than I’vebeen able to drive the vehicle. I will not accept the vehicle back until my questionshave been satisfactorily answered.



I’m aware that the seat surfacesupplier is Benecke-Kaliko (although some of the MB blog posts suggest JohnsonControls—my guess is JC supplies the “guts” of the seats, not the softsurfaces); and the involved product is called Acella. http://www.benecke-kaliko.com/pages/kfz-interieurmaterial/kfz-sitzbezug/kfz-sitzbezug-acella/kfz-sitzbezug-acella_en.html; See the press release for the C300 Acella Surface: http://www.benecke-kaliko.com/pages/news/140616_mercedes-c-klasse_en.html



One of the MB owner’s blogs indicatesthat independent lab testing was performed on the seating chemicals andmaterials at MB’s request. I request a copy of this lab testing andconclusions. As you stated during our first conversation that the leached oilis “not toxic,” I presume there is some science or testing to back up thatstatement. As my family has been exposed to the oil, the degrading seats, andpossibly other byproducts released by this process, I am entitled tosatisfactory proof of safety. The lab report, MSDS reports for all materials& byproducts, and all other documents regarding the seating surfacechemical stability (or lack thereof) are all relevant.



Further, most certainly MB hasinvestigated whether fumes or aerosols from these degrading materials andbyproducts have settled on or into other parts of the car. This would includebut not be limited to the carpet, mats, headliner, dash, doors, and mostimportantly the ventilation system. As the byproduct cannot be cleaned off theseating, I would question if it can be cleaned off the other parts of the carif it has infiltrated.



Besides the crucial health issuequestions, if any of this material is toxic and/or infiltrating then the valueof the car also comes into question. This is something that a purchaser of anew Mercedes Benz should not need be concerned about. I expect this to bedirectly addressed by MB USA.



As you know, yesterday I asked to beput in touch with the individual who is in charge of handling this issue for MBUSA. I’m of course aware that you are somewhere along the “food chain” but notat the top, and you can only provide information as authorized by yoursupervisors. I renew my request, and ask that this email be passed alongto your supervisors at the top of this issue.

coladin

That is what I said seems to be the case but the fact that he is sticking with is it could be leather cars as well who also have this protectant spray...don't know but that is what he is saying!

Alex.currie44

The issue in the cold weather is the stuff that bloomed receeded.
Think about it this way.
PVC absent plasticizers is a matrix of long chains of molecules tightly bonded together but will shatter like glass at any temperature.
To make them pliable, plasticizers are introduced into this matrix, many in the form of phthalates which are big bulky molecules. They get in between the chains of molecules and force them apart and then like a stiff steel hauser when reduced to its single wire stage the individual strands are pliable.
Now Butyl Benzyl Phthalate is a plastizer but a relatively small molecule and blooms out easily. It is typically used to make slush molded items because it is cheap.
Larger more complex molecules will lock into the matrix and keep it pliable and stay put. These are longer chain usually with a backbone of 10 or more carbon atoms. They also function well to keep seats soft at low temperatures and won't allow cold cracking.
There are secondary plasticizers used with the primaries to reduce cost that don't stay in the matrix as well also.
Finally, we add processing aids such as lubricants i.e. Stearic Acid which blooms in a heart beat if too high and stabilizers for heat and light which can also bloom.
From what I am reading here MBUSA knows it has an issue and their supplier to JCI or Magna probably knows exactly what caused the problem.
If it was a product we made we would know in an hour of receiving a sample.
This is top coat delamination from the PVC due to migration of components of the PVC migrating to the surface.
We also add heat and light stabilizers.

Jazzdad

You obviously have pretty extensive knowledge of this field! So--safe or unsafe? Migrated into other parts of the car?

AAN

Who is your dealer? I have an order with the Star Motors in Ottawa, but they told me my car build date will be the 10th of January, so hopefully no MBTex issue. But still I am worried...

Alex.currie44

No issue of migration into the car from the seats.
Not something I would want a baby to lick or kids to touch and then put food into their mouths. Too many unknowns.

Jazzdad

Bleeding seat repairs??? Not!

The car has been home from Plaza Motors in St. Louis for several hours, it's cold out--the car has been in the dealer's heated garage for over 2 months--they replaced the entire interior. IT'S BLEEDING AGAIN, WITH THE LEPROSY LOOK!!!

Who else on this blog has had their seats "repaired" by the dealer? And who still has the issue?

bazan

Just want to chime in , I am from Canada too... me too was experiencing the bleeding seat issue... approx a month ago... took some pics and send to my dealer, they asked me to take the car in so that they can take some pictures and order the replacement seat. However, since then even in the cold sub -10C temp outside these days, I have yet to see any more bleeding. (that is I have not even tried cleaning or wiping the "stuff" with anything) like yourself, I am not sure if I should still bring it in ... certainly don't want someone to reassemble the seats etc... if not necessary.. The only difference I found was that the car was when I first observed the bleeding it was when the car was sitting in the garage for approx 2 days in the cold temperature ... recently I have been driving the car quite often and I dont see anymore bleeding(however the car is still seating overnight in the cold)

StanNH

I had that experience too, but it's not what I first thought it was.

I had my seat covers and headrests replaced under the TSB and, a few days later, parts of my rear seats were again bleeding. I sent pictures to my dealer and they got back to me immediately.

Apparently, for reasons that defy all logic, MB-USA did not always send out the complete repair kits. In my case, they told my dealer that the side bolsters and piece under the rear armrest did not have to be replaced ... so they did not send those parts. My dealer has since ordered the missing parts and will finish the repair when I decide to bring the car back yet again.

The replacement MB-Tex will not bleed, and there have been zero reports of any issues with the new material. Without pictures it's impossible to tell which parts of your seats are now affected, but I'm sure that your dealer did not do the complete seat cover and headrest replacement that is called for under the TSB. If all surfaces are again bleeding, it's a safe bet to assume that nothing was replaced.

whippet007

Hi Bazan


I am just going to leave well enough alone for now.
I have not seen any evidence of any type of bleeding in past two months after my last partial clean.
We have had very cold temperatures and very warm temps here in Calgary and as I have mentioned in past posts it has completely stopped.
I have MB's full backing that should I decide to have the seat covers replaced they will do so at the drop of hat.
Mercedes has been fantastic to deal with over the years!

I also have a brother in Burlington Ontario and he too had some bleeding on his new C class ( Beige Interior ). He cleaned it in the same fashion as I and his bleeding has stopped as well.
Hopefully it is over but I guess time will tell.
Third clean seems to be the charm.

miketc

Would you share your cleaning method with us? Thanks.

whippet007

Hi miketc

Well...... its a pretty easy procedure.

I took a very hot bucket of water poured in about a half cup of a cleaning product purchased at Safeway called "All-Purpose Cleaner Ammonia" (Lemon Scented Sudsy).
I wiped down all the surfaces with a microfiber towel soaked with the solution (slightly wrung).
I let the product soak on the MB Tex for about 30 seconds and then I took a dry microfiber towel and dried the surface.
It took me about twenty minutes to do the entire car.

Thats it !

Its been 8 weeks and absolutely nothing so far.

Here's hoping !

cidtek

I would be very wary of using any ammonia product on the seats if you care what they may look like in 5 years.

miketc

Thanks for the info. Is that a Safeway brand? Not everybody has Safeway around them.

whippet007

I've never had an issue using this method (30+ years).
It is an all purpose general cleaner.
I definitely would not use it full strength.

miketc

Don't know in 5 years but it look like crap now.

bosoxlvr1

Hi Stan, MY c300 still at the dealer, all parts arrived except the piece under your legs on the drivers side. Still waiting for the part. Car has been at the dealer since 1/31/15. it has 240 miles on it, which actually includes 3 20 mile trips to the dealer. They say they will work out something with me once its fixed. they will claim they told me the parts would not be in till 2/21, in fact we are still waiting for completion. Dealer has been great.
NJ lemon law is 20 cumulitive days. I'll see if they get back to me by the end of the week.

cidtek

Wow - my dealer had my car for only 2 days and did a fantastic job of replacing all the seat covers.