Sport tuned suspension vs comfort
04-30-2016, 07:52 AM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
I think any discussion about suspension firmness & height/ride quality & handling always reveals the inherent problem with a "fixed" steel suspension. It's "fixed". Meaning it's either one or the other. It handles well on shorter springs but can be too harsh on poor road surfaces. Or it's insulated from poor road conditions by taller springs but suffers excessive body roll in cornering.
Mercedes has been fighting this battle for years in the S Class and CL Class, cars so expensive its buyers want both...smooth ride and good handling. They came up two active suspensions: AirMatic and Automatic Body Control.
AirMatic replaces coil-over steel springs with air springs, adds wheel sensors to continuously measure ride height, a controller, and an air compressor and reservoir that can deliver air to the springs on demand. AirMatic in the S/CL offers three ride levels: Normal (Comfort), lowered (Sport) and lifted (Raised). It also automatically drops the car at highway speeds to reduce drag and improve handling.
In addition to setting (and maintaining) ride height, AirMatic also provides continuous load leveling based on occupant weight and even the weight of fuel in the gas tank.
Lastly, if lowering or slamming is your thing, AirMatic cars can be dropped simply by tricking the wheel sensors to report to the controller that the car is sitting higher than it really is, and AirMatic responds by lowering the car.
AirMatic's downside is that it can't move air around quickly enough to apply instant counterforce to totally flatten out body lean in hard cornering. Neither can a steel spring. It will try though, and in most driving conditions it's a very good balance between comfort and handling.
ABC, standard on the AMG variants of the S and CL class, uses hydraulics rather than pneumatics to apply instant counterforce to any corner of the car on demand, resulting in no body lean or pitching and flat cornering despite the car's weight. ABC's downside is that it's complex, prone to failure and very expensive to repair.
ABC obviously isn't an option on the C, but AirMatic is. I think C Class shoppers presume it offers a floaty, overly insulated ride best suited to the elderly, so why in the world would they pay extra for it? It's also a fairly rare option, so chances are you won't find an AirMatic car to test drive.
The truth is, it gives you flexibility by allowing you to choose the ride height and firmness. Sport or Sport + lowers the car and stiffens up the handling in the same way shorter steel coil-over springs do on a fixed "Sport" suspension. Comfort does the opposite, the same as the taller springs do in a steel Comfort set up.
It's mated to Agility Control so depending on your mood, or road conditions, you can have either a Comfort or Sport suspension at the flick of a switch.
Want something even lower and stiffer than Sport +? A tech thru STAR can recalibrate the suspension to drop an additional inch for you. Want to do a Plus One wheel fitment without sacrificing ride? Go an inch the other way.
In short, when you see AirMatic don't think "soft". Think "variable", and don't dismiss it if ride quality vs handling is an issue for you, or if you share the car with a spouse who won't love a sporty ride but you really want a car you can toss around sometimes.
Mercedes has been fighting this battle for years in the S Class and CL Class, cars so expensive its buyers want both...smooth ride and good handling. They came up two active suspensions: AirMatic and Automatic Body Control.
AirMatic replaces coil-over steel springs with air springs, adds wheel sensors to continuously measure ride height, a controller, and an air compressor and reservoir that can deliver air to the springs on demand. AirMatic in the S/CL offers three ride levels: Normal (Comfort), lowered (Sport) and lifted (Raised). It also automatically drops the car at highway speeds to reduce drag and improve handling.
In addition to setting (and maintaining) ride height, AirMatic also provides continuous load leveling based on occupant weight and even the weight of fuel in the gas tank.
Lastly, if lowering or slamming is your thing, AirMatic cars can be dropped simply by tricking the wheel sensors to report to the controller that the car is sitting higher than it really is, and AirMatic responds by lowering the car.
AirMatic's downside is that it can't move air around quickly enough to apply instant counterforce to totally flatten out body lean in hard cornering. Neither can a steel spring. It will try though, and in most driving conditions it's a very good balance between comfort and handling.
ABC, standard on the AMG variants of the S and CL class, uses hydraulics rather than pneumatics to apply instant counterforce to any corner of the car on demand, resulting in no body lean or pitching and flat cornering despite the car's weight. ABC's downside is that it's complex, prone to failure and very expensive to repair.
ABC obviously isn't an option on the C, but AirMatic is. I think C Class shoppers presume it offers a floaty, overly insulated ride best suited to the elderly, so why in the world would they pay extra for it? It's also a fairly rare option, so chances are you won't find an AirMatic car to test drive.
The truth is, it gives you flexibility by allowing you to choose the ride height and firmness. Sport or Sport + lowers the car and stiffens up the handling in the same way shorter steel coil-over springs do on a fixed "Sport" suspension. Comfort does the opposite, the same as the taller springs do in a steel Comfort set up.
It's mated to Agility Control so depending on your mood, or road conditions, you can have either a Comfort or Sport suspension at the flick of a switch.
Want something even lower and stiffer than Sport +? A tech thru STAR can recalibrate the suspension to drop an additional inch for you. Want to do a Plus One wheel fitment without sacrificing ride? Go an inch the other way.
In short, when you see AirMatic don't think "soft". Think "variable", and don't dismiss it if ride quality vs handling is an issue for you, or if you share the car with a spouse who won't love a sporty ride but you really want a car you can toss around sometimes.
Last edited by Mike5215; 04-30-2016 at 07:57 AM.
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04-30-2016, 10:00 AM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
Airmatic has received mixed reviews from many of the car magazines ... some like it and some don't. Here's one from Car and Driver written when the new C300 was first introduced:
"The $1190 air suspension’s exclusive Sport+ setting tries to beat bumps into submission, while Comfort is too squishy, allowing for some head toss on heaving pavement and uncomfortable rear-end squirming under hard braking. The Sport mode delivers the same delicate balance of suppleness and capable handling as the steel setup, and it’s the setting in which we’d leave the suspension. Given that, we’d skip Airmatic and save some loot. Even without the air springs, you still can adjust the steering, transmission, and throttle through Eco, Comfort, and Sport settings using the standard Agility Select switch."
Most people here like their choice of Airmatic, but professional testers have been far less universal in their praise of it. In the end, it all comes down to what one expects from their car. Some value smoothness over handling, others prefer a taut suspension at the expense of some suspension compliance. I've owned a 2009 Corvette with their F55 magnetic suspension, and currently have a 2013 Porsche Boxster S with PASM, their version of an adjustable suspension. In the C300, I was happy with the feel of the steel Sport suspension, so that's what I went with. Each system has its own unique pros and cons, so the best choice is simply what you want.
"The $1190 air suspension’s exclusive Sport+ setting tries to beat bumps into submission, while Comfort is too squishy, allowing for some head toss on heaving pavement and uncomfortable rear-end squirming under hard braking. The Sport mode delivers the same delicate balance of suppleness and capable handling as the steel setup, and it’s the setting in which we’d leave the suspension. Given that, we’d skip Airmatic and save some loot. Even without the air springs, you still can adjust the steering, transmission, and throttle through Eco, Comfort, and Sport settings using the standard Agility Select switch."
Most people here like their choice of Airmatic, but professional testers have been far less universal in their praise of it. In the end, it all comes down to what one expects from their car. Some value smoothness over handling, others prefer a taut suspension at the expense of some suspension compliance. I've owned a 2009 Corvette with their F55 magnetic suspension, and currently have a 2013 Porsche Boxster S with PASM, their version of an adjustable suspension. In the C300, I was happy with the feel of the steel Sport suspension, so that's what I went with. Each system has its own unique pros and cons, so the best choice is simply what you want.
04-30-2016, 12:06 PM
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yeah, I read that C&D piece as well. It's true...if you were going to leave the AirMatic in Sport anyway, just get the steel Sport suspension since, according to them, AirMatic in Sport feels exactly the same. Which means all AirMatic does is give you some options, where steel does not.
For prospective buyers I'd suggest at least driving an Air equipped car when they're shopping.
For prospective buyers I'd suggest at least driving an Air equipped car when they're shopping.
Last edited by Mike5215; 04-30-2016 at 12:17 PM.
04-30-2016, 12:24 PM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
I owned a base with 18" tires for nearly six months, and spent nearly four weeks in a loaner C300 Luxury with 17" tires. I now own a C300 Sport. All had steel suspensions and, quite frankly, I didn't see any dramatic differences in ride comfort with any of them. The Sport is somewhat firmer and does feel sharper in the corners, but it's not a "night and day" difference. All can get unsettled on really bad roads. I have spent only limited time in an Airmatic, and it was softer on its comfort setting, but I personally liked the tighter feel of the steel Sport system,, so that was my choice.
So, I don't think there's a "right" choice here. The only mistake would be in trying to order a car based on the opinions of others ... and without the benefit of a test drive. Anyone vacillating between suspension options really has to drive them to make an informed decision.
04-30-2016, 01:02 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
Agree. I drove every permutation of suspension type and wheel size before ultimately doing a build. Honestly, the Base on 17" rode very well, and handled crisply too. In fact it was the ride and handling of a base C loaner on 17" that got me thinking about the C in the first place.
Unfortunately I really wanted the Sport appearance package so Air was my only choice. The Sport on 18" was too stiff for my taste. Even on Air I still swapped out to non run flats to get the set up that I wanted.
Unfortunately I really wanted the Sport appearance package so Air was my only choice. The Sport on 18" was too stiff for my taste. Even on Air I still swapped out to non run flats to get the set up that I wanted.
05-02-2016, 07:01 AM
#31
Agree. I drove every permutation of suspension type and wheel size before ultimately doing a build. Honestly, the Base on 17" rode very well, and handled crisply too. In fact it was the ride and handling of a base C loaner on 17" that got me thinking about the C in the first place.
Unfortunately I really wanted the Sport appearance package so Air was my only choice. The Sport on 18" was too stiff for my taste. Even on Air I still swapped out to non run flats to get the set up that I wanted.
Unfortunately I really wanted the Sport appearance package so Air was my only choice. The Sport on 18" was too stiff for my taste. Even on Air I still swapped out to non run flats to get the set up that I wanted.
I have an 18' and no Airmatic, will changing to non runflats make much of a difference?
10-04-2016, 10:19 AM
#33
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2005 e55 AMG
So does anyone know what actual components are different? Sway bars, struts, springs, control arms the whole nine or is it just a spring swap? I'm curious how big of a deal it is to have a dealer just re-equip the car. I have done quite a few aftermarket mods to various cars over the years and it's not really a big deal so I am curious what really needs to be done to correct it. I am willing to bet the car that the MB sport springs, while harsher then comfort, will still be a better ride quality then the aftermarket H&R or other spring. Thoughts?
exclusive (485) springs shocks to match softness and height
AMG line (677/486) springs, same part number as avantgarde different sway bars. Had Shocks to match AMG handling.
*avatgarde and exclusive same sway bars
10-05-2016, 07:45 PM
#34
Super Member
15mm drop is only impacting the roll center.. ie less polar moment..
So while it helps, the uprated springs and the bilstien sports dampers and uprated ARB's are what is making a more pronounced difference..
Combined with 19's and conti run flats though and the ride over edges is crap.. RFT's being the first thing to ditch..
Last edited by Shadwell; 10-05-2016 at 07:55 PM.
10-07-2016, 12:05 AM
#35
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2016 W205 C300 4MATIC Sport, 2006 Lancer Evo 9 - 550 whp
...
The problem with the W205's steel suspension is that it is not a particularly compliant setup. I think many new buyers are expecting a very soft and smooth ride, and that's not what you'll get with either the comfort/base or sport versions. MB apparently tried to tune these for a more "sporty" feel, and they're just not very smooth on rough surfaces. Of course, the addition of rigid RFT's to the mix only makes this worse.
I owned a base with 18" tires for nearly six months, and spent nearly four weeks in a loaner C300 Luxury with 17" tires. I now own a C300 Sport. All had steel suspensions and, quite frankly, I didn't see any dramatic differences in ride comfort with any of them. The Sport is somewhat firmer and does feel sharper in the corners, but it's not a "night and day" difference. All can get unsettled on really bad roads. I have spent only limited time in an Airmatic, and it was softer on its comfort setting, but I personally liked the.
...
The problem with the W205's steel suspension is that it is not a particularly compliant setup. I think many new buyers are expecting a very soft and smooth ride, and that's not what you'll get with either the comfort/base or sport versions. MB apparently tried to tune these for a more "sporty" feel, and they're just not very smooth on rough surfaces. Of course, the addition of rigid RFT's to the mix only makes this worse.
I owned a base with 18" tires for nearly six months, and spent nearly four weeks in a loaner C300 Luxury with 17" tires. I now own a C300 Sport. All had steel suspensions and, quite frankly, I didn't see any dramatic differences in ride comfort with any of them. The Sport is somewhat firmer and does feel sharper in the corners, but it's not a "night and day" difference. All can get unsettled on really bad roads. I have spent only limited time in an Airmatic, and it was softer on its comfort setting, but I personally liked the.
...
Anyhow, I'd say that the sport is a cool looking car that's a pretty nice overall package for daily driving with a bit of driving entertainment.
10-08-2016, 04:17 PM
#36
Super Member
Amazing that you think the C300 suspension is not compliant. My impression is that its pretty squishy compared to true sports cars. I'd say its slightly firmer than my 2009 Civic sedan, softer than my 2014 CLA250, and a 1970s Cadillac compared to my 2006 Evo with coilovers. :-) I totally agree though that something doesn't feel quite right about the suspension. My suspicion is that there is insufficient compression damping allowing some wheel hop or general wheel confusion. My '09 Civic feels more sorted on bumpy roads. The interesting aspect of the C300 is the lean resistance produced by the multilink suspension front and rear.
Anyhow, I'd say that the sport is a cool looking car that's a pretty nice overall package for daily driving with a bit of driving entertainment.
Anyhow, I'd say that the sport is a cool looking car that's a pretty nice overall package for daily driving with a bit of driving entertainment.
10-08-2016, 10:13 PM
#37
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2016 W205 C300 4MATIC Sport, 2006 Lancer Evo 9 - 550 whp
Pretty interesting. I definitely have the 486 package, and while I can definitely sense some wheel hop on bumps and is not floaty-boaty smooth, its otherwise fairly compliant Was the 486 install on your C300 done at the dealership?
10-09-2016, 09:17 AM
#38
Super Member
No, it was done at the factory. I did not order it because I did not want it. There was nothing on the window sticker to indicate that the car had that option. However, I did a VIN search, and found that indeed, 486 was installed. After repeated denials from the dealership that my car had it, I insisted that they do a visual inspection, and they reluctantly confirmed I do have 486.
10-09-2016, 11:06 AM
#40
Super Member
They won't do that without a fight. Also, I don't trust them to not screw it up. Most people on this forum think I should just be happy I got an option for free. Also, the jury is out on if it would make that much difference. My biggest regret is that I didn't get the air suspension. I guess people perceive things differently, but it just blows my mind when I read so many reviews of this car describing how smooth the ride is. I have rented several cars since I got my W205, and even though they all cost half of what my MB cost, they totally blew my car away in the smooth ride department. However, that is not to say they handled better.
10-09-2016, 01:28 PM
#41
MBWorld Fanatic!
If it were my car and I actually felt I got a desired option for free I'd let it go. If not, I'd want MB to at least attempt to make it right. In fact, as long as they're swapping stuff out, I'd lobby for getting the Lux components. Air does make a big difference on a 205, but I think you could get a steel suspension riding very comfortably with the right running gear, no more than an 18" wheel, and non run flat tires.
Ride quality is something that is so integral to the ownership experience I couldn't let it go.
Ride quality is something that is so integral to the ownership experience I couldn't let it go.
10-09-2016, 05:05 PM
#42
They won't do that without a fight. Also, I don't trust them to not screw it up. Most people on this forum think I should just be happy I got an option for free. Also, the jury is out on if it would make that much difference. My biggest regret is that I didn't get the air suspension. I guess people perceive things differently, but it just blows my mind when I read so many reviews of this car describing how smooth the ride is. I have rented several cars since I got my W205, and even though they all cost half of what my MB cost, they totally blew my car away in the smooth ride department. However, that is not to say they handled better.
10-15-2016, 02:23 PM
#43
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2005 e55 AMG
So does anyone know what actual components are different? Sway bars, struts, springs, control arms the whole nine or is it just a spring swap? I'm curious how big of a deal it is to have a dealer just re-equip the car. I have done quite a few aftermarket mods to various cars over the years and it's not really a big deal so I am curious what really needs to be done to correct it. I am willing to bet the car that the MB sport springs, while harsher then comfort, will still be a better ride quality then the aftermarket H&R or other spring. Thoughts?
Last edited by E55w211; 10-15-2016 at 02:52 PM.
08-22-2017, 05:34 AM
#44
Junior Member
my w205 checked with VIN number has comfort suspension 485 CODE
( is it possible to replace only springs with 486 springs for aesthetic reasons? If yes how will be the behavoir of the car?do you have codes of 486 springs for model C220d SW ?Many thanks
Stefano.
Last edited by stefguaz; 08-23-2017 at 03:38 AM. Reason: .
08-23-2017, 01:17 AM
#45
Junior Member
Anybody can help me? Many thanks
Last edited by stefguaz; 08-23-2017 at 03:40 AM.
01-16-2020, 07:58 PM
#46
Check out Avante guard suspension
I had the same issue - ordered C300 sport but car was delivered car with comfort suspension. I loved the ride but didn't like the huge wheel gap.
So I traded in the old car for a new one with the sports suspension. I can honestly say that I liked the softer suspension more as it didn't seem to affect the handling very much and was definitely more comfortable on bad city roads.
To bad we can't have a softer ride with lowered suspension.
With that being said, I would do it all over again as the car definitely looks better with the lowered suspension and the ride is really not that bad. The cornering is just a little tighter also for those Saturday morning drives with no traffic.
So I traded in the old car for a new one with the sports suspension. I can honestly say that I liked the softer suspension more as it didn't seem to affect the handling very much and was definitely more comfortable on bad city roads.
To bad we can't have a softer ride with lowered suspension.
With that being said, I would do it all over again as the car definitely looks better with the lowered suspension and the ride is really not that bad. The cornering is just a little tighter also for those Saturday morning drives with no traffic.
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01-21-2020, 08:24 PM
#47
MBWorld Fanatic!
Just put quality lowering springs on it. Or adjustable. HR seems reputable. There are a few other performance brands that sell upgraded springs for our cars.
The "OE Sport" springs are going to be better and cheaper than the oem parts.
http://www.hrsprings.com/products/detail/springs
If you want full coil overs KW is probably the most popular upgrade for ze German autos. It $$ tho:
https://www.kwsuspensions.com/produc...-3a725081.html
05-29-2020, 10:23 AM
#49
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11-13-2023, 01:40 PM
#50
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w205 1.6
Hello
I want to change the springs of my car (w 205 1.6 facelift)
It now wears the 677 sport Amg suspension making it low and stiff...
I want a softer suspension and I'm thinking of putting the 485..
Does anyone have codes from the springs or even the colors they have on them so I can look to find them
I want to change the springs of my car (w 205 1.6 facelift)
It now wears the 677 sport Amg suspension making it low and stiff...
I want a softer suspension and I'm thinking of putting the 485..
Does anyone have codes from the springs or even the colors they have on them so I can look to find them
