X5PlatBronze

IQS is based on the first 90 days of ownership. CR may be looking at a longer period to measure reliability. I would assume more problems arise the longer you own a vehicle.

X5PlatBronze

The way a manufacturer responds and addresses problems may very well play a role in these ratings. After all, the primary objective is to keep the customer happy. For one, I know the MB Customer Assistance Center has in several cases refused to acknowledge customer concerns based on the responses on this forum.

BMW may not be as reliable as say Lexus. However, BMW Customer Relations may be a lot more responsive and effective at addressing customer concerns at an early stage.

voip1

The only thing reliability wise that will change for the 2016 cars will be things that are too big to change as mid-production refits.

So, if new tooling is available for any problem parts, it would probably be pushed off till the 2016 model year.

Similarly any refit/design changes in components that are too big to introduce in the middle of the production run would also get introduced as part of the model year switchover as typically the factory shuts down a production line for anywhere from 1-3 weeks to do any changes before mass production starts up again.

Back when Mercedes was run top to bottom by people who had engineering backgrounds the current state of affairs would have been totally unacceptable. I get the impression that these days Mercedes is being run by bean counters who are more concerned with shaving $1 the cost of a part than building the tightest car they can.

Shakespeare

The chairman of Daimler Benz and Head of Mercedes Cars is an Engineer by background as is the head of research - Mercedes continue this throughout their business; so any issues are not down to that.

More likely that it's teething problems with a new model that is a major change from previous model - plus new technology. Moreover car has a lot of Aluminium - does not feel as solid as steel, but has other advantages. The C class is one of their lowest cost models so, although this should not be an excuse, perhaps does not get the same attention to detail. Although many appear to pay $50,000 or more - the base model which has the same underpinnings is only in the $30,000's. - therefore people are buying a $30k car with $20k of options. I know many of the Far East car manufacturers manage quality better -on far cheaper cars - but overall the cars and experience are not a patch on what most get from MB. However, it is very disappointing if the customer service is not up to scratch - this should be a key differentiator.

HelenR

I'm not a brand basher, or loyalist to heritage. But having C300 on a short term lease, it is well more than typical new factory and model teething problems.

This is the worst put together car I've ever owned and arguably the worst built car of 2015. Poor accountability by Mercedes means this car build issues won't improve greatly until the mid cycle refresh. In the shop now for a 'software glitch' related to steering wheel. Had to be towed. May 2015 build here. I know there are some who have the car and are pleased. Some of them who allege 'problem free' must be blind to the visual misses in build, or deaf to the noise, and sensorily defunct to miss the shifting problems.

Not surprised to see the Koreans near the top. My eye on them to be the next 'thing" if they come out with Luxury brand. They just look and drive/ride so cheaply right now. No cars should feel that cheap with plastics in this day and age.

laz81

So according to you. I must be blind and deaf because up until now my car has no issues?

to put this into perspective you went to Mercedes, bought a new car. Once the new car arrived you did a visual inspection, test drove it, etc. Came to the conclusion that everything is good and accepted delivery. You later find visual misses in the build, wind noise, transmission issues, steering issues. And the ones that "allegedly" have no issues are blind?

HelenR

Well, in your case it might just be that you're not smart enough, if that's what you read out of my posts.

Some don't see the bumper and tail light step off, some do. They all have it to some degree. Some able to hear the noises, some can't. Some think it car shifts smooth as a baby backside from 2-3 gear when cold. Doesn't mean they're blind or deaf. They just don't see, or hear, or feel it.

And I had 2 cars ordered for purchase. One dealer returned to factory, with 3 others received that day for 'build issues'. MOST dealers aren't returning them, they're selling them broken. The second one they put in new weather stripping, acoustic glass installed free from Germany, and had bumper fixed at body shop on Mercedes dime. Unfortunately, my experience echoed the JD Power. I didn't buy it. I did a one year lease.

Sol01

Sorry but this sounds a complete and utter rubbish. have you driven every car put together in 2015 ?

laz81

Ok so now I'm bind to visual defects, deaf to wind noise and just not smart enough.

I checked my car in and out for over an hour before accepting delivery. Bumper, head lights, sunshade for the pano roof, connect my phone to see if it works, test drove it on the highway and regular streets. its now 2 months i have my car and i have no issues. It's very clear that a lot of people have some type of issue with this car.. I don't. is that really hard to understand? I am not deaf nor blind to defects..I'm sure some issues will arose in the future.. as they do with all cars. Maybe you got unlucky with yours to have issues so early.. or maybe i got lucky with mine not to have issues. but one thing's for sure.. if my bumper was misaligned or i had wind noise i would have definitely known.

StanNH

You're obviously missing the point. If you start out with the assumption that every W205 is defective in some way, this all makes perfect sense. A perceived lack of defects in the car must then be obvious and conclusive proof of a defect with the owner of the car.

It's like an allergy ... some people react to this car by incurring severe visual and auditory impairment. In my own case, I am perfectly aware of obtrusive wind noise in other cars, but put me in a C-Class and I lose all my hearing acuity. That unique hearing loss is why I THINK my car has no unusual wind noise when, in fact, we all know that my car is a regular maelstrom inside.

I may THINK fit and finish are fine, especially based on the 20 or so cars I've owned over the years, but that too is apparently simply unacceptable thinking on my part, and further evidence of my inability to see as well as hear.

So, in conclusion, what you may see or hear relative to your own W205 is totally irrelevant. You may think you are satisfied with the build quality and performance of your car, but that is obviously a misconception on your part. The good part is that you are not to blame ... it's that severe loss of hearing and sight that is responsible for your inability to totally understand how bad your car really is.

Sol01

I suppose that must apply to thousands of other W205 owners and I know quite a few in London who are more than satisfied with their cars and don't even contribute on this board. or it could be that the ones who complain most on this board are just a few lucky ones who are neither blind or deaf. I wonder,,,,

StanNH

I'm sorry but satisfied owners, who must by definition be handicapped in some way, are excluded from these discussions.

laz81

I get it now StanN. Thank you for this eye opening explanation. So it doesn't matter if i hear no wind noise or that i don't see any defects with the finish. Bottomline its there BUT i am to deaf or to blind to see or hear it. Makes sense to me now.

Sol01 I'm pretty sure StanN is being sarcastic with his post

StanNH

Moi?

pdp8

Subtlety is a dangerous thing on the Internet.

cidtek

Well Stan just proved that some people are blind to some things.

rex5

I had a March 2015 built C300. It had fluttering loud wind noise that was obvious and loud at higher speeds and the general manager, head technician and owner of the dealership all drove the car and agreed the wind noise was unacceptable. They tried taping the mirrors and replaced the door seals which had no effect. They were as surprised as me that MBUSA felt it was a simply a design characteristic and there was no plan for any fix. The cause is still completely unclear but the mirrors, door seals or rain gutters are thought to be a problem on the drivers side. The owner of the dealership told me it was the loudest wind noise he had ever heard on any car and he has been selling cars for 35 years. Was measured by the dealer themselves at 85 dB. This was not my measurement it was the dealership with professional audio equipment. Average is 62 dB for most cars on the road. It is a widespread issue with this car model and for those who don't have it you are very very lucky.

HelenR

Yea, none of it matters! As long as there's a 3 pointed star on the front. Its PERFECT. In every way. Will last you many miles with minimum maintenance. If I don't hear or see anything wrong..it doesn't exist! In fact, the JD Power Survey listed that I see with my eyes lists Mercedes as number ONE! Amazing, no other brand came close. And my build of the car is FLAWLESS. In fact, everyone complaining of an issue, ANY issue, is just a whiner..like guys who posted pictures of supposedly 'bleeding' seats that looked perfect to me.

There you go fellows. There's what some of of you want to believe. So believe away.

Some suffer here from much more than a handicap, overwhelming heads up their own rectum issue.

StanNH

No one here doubts that some cars have serious issues with wind noise. In your case, you sold your new C300 and bought a used SUV which, I hope you are happy with. I ran one poll here which showed less than 15% felt the wind noise issue was bad enough to be considered unacceptable. Although the majority experienced at least some noise, over 40% said they had not heard any usual wind noise in their cars. That's certainly not a scientific survey, and the sample is quite small, but it does indicate that not ALL cars, or even the majority of cars, have this problem. One could reasonably argue that no Mercedes should ever exhibit high levels of wind noise, and that is a valid point that must be addressed by MB.

What I find troublesome is the almost religious fervor which accompanies some of the wind noise posts. Why should claims of no problems be ridiculed, while claims of universal wind noise be accepted as fact? There is no question about the validity of excess wind noise complaints, but there should also be no question about the validity of the many claims of quiet cars.

I don't know what the actual real world numbers are, but I do know that many of us do not have this problem. And ... we are certainly not all deaf, blind, and stupid.

HelenR

Stan, Nobody has said you're blind nor deaf, you're proving the missed point and your intelligence on your own merit of your posts.

I find it troublesome when dealers say abnormalities are "normal".

I don't put as much merit in what a guy on a board says is 'normal', especially after your rants on your first car with minimal real issues, none safety or operationally related. Could run a poll of people in the US with bleeding seats, and I bet it'd be low. It would be as statistically insignificant. Does it mean people in the southern hemisphere who can't appreciate it have no issue with their MB-Tex?

I know you don't know what the real numbers are. You quoting a straw poll result which has as much to do with perception of hearing than the car build.

The point of this thread was that the JD power numbers are sinking. And some of us believe with obvious reasons which are correctable. If you disagree, and think it's perfect car, that's fine. It's not based on reality, or your own personal posts. There's no reason to be upset if people question the noise, when they've had people say they 'can't hear it' when they do sitting right beside them. I know some take it harshly when people question their 'senses', especially when they're not so young anymore. On behalf of my posts, none of that was meant.

pdp8

My guess is, a lot of people have interpreted this:

as accusation of blind or deafness.

StanNH

My first C300 was a mess, and I was very up front about the many issues I had to deal with. It is also apparent that at least the first year production of the W205 has had an inordinate amount of QC issues. That can not be argued, since it is very well documented. On the other hand, my second C300 has yet to return to the dealer for any issues and I consider it to be a very reliable car ... so far.

I don't think anyone here thinks of this car as perfect, and most are very well aware of the issues that too many owners have had to deal with. My problem is the willingness to accept all problems as endemic to the car, and the refusal to accept the fact that not every car has these issues. Not every car had the MB-Tex issue, but too many did. That was acknowledged by MB-USA as a production error and eventually fixed. Many other issues, which should have been minor, have been blown way out of proportion because MB offered no reasonable responses or fixes.

No, this car is not perfect. It is also not the horrendous and guaranteed lemon that some have claimed it is. It is a good car that has been handicapped by some inexcusable quality lapses. I think, certainly at this point in production, that many more good cars are being turned out than bad ones. I am not a Mercedes apologist, in fact this is my first MB product. I was disappointed with the first one, but not the second one.

Many on this forum have had few or no issues with their cars. That does not, as I've said before, make their experiences and opinions any less valid than those who have been less fortunate.

HelenR

Well StanNH, if you can fathom with the many issues posted about on your first car, MANY people on here would report as NO ISSUES with their car, and defensively say it 'is flawless'.

If they didn't live where it was freezing, what's the problem with the seats? The bumper, looks the same as the other cars, and didn't notice it anyhow, both perfect. Headliner or sunroof issue you had, they 'don't see anything wrong with it'. Transmission upshift issue, not to them. It's better than their 1980 Ford. In each example, the car still has an issue.

Back on track of the post. Mercedes has the issues. They are not being accountable to them. If someone "doesn't see it" in their seats, hear it in the noise, they're not blind, but they still have a problem that they shouldn't have, and even if built that way as a mistake, Mercedes should have fixed them all, and not either said it's 'normal', or 'wait until they complain enough, then fix that one persons car and deny the rest'.

StanNH

No argument here. Mercedes has a very courteous Customer Service division, but ironically they seem poorly equipped to service their customers.

Few, if any, of the complaints discussed here would be real issues if they were effectively resolved at the dealer level. The apparent unwillingness to acknowledge some complaints, particularly the severe wind noise issues on some cars, can only generate bad will and lose return customers. " They all do that," was a lame excuse 50 years ago, and it's a lame excuse today.

HelenR

I agree with you on all of that.

I also believe that most owners would have argued that the first car you had, the one you called a mess, as '100% perfect and flawless'. Most just wouln't have experienced the issues you did. Doesn't mean they weren't there, and should have been addressed. I bet fewer than 1% of the cars with bleeding seats got a change out. And those few owners, as you, had to fight for it, and heard "oh that's normal, it's safe, it's nontoxic, it will go away just wipe it" more than once.