kellens

Who let this guy back on here?

kellens

C4004matic can't be objective to save his life. He's burned he got the C400 and soon after they came out with the C450, which he swore C450 would never happen. We get it. You're disgruntled.

There's plenty of reviews out on the C450 from EU. The C400 was a C300 with bigger and heavier engine stuck in it and handling/balance that didn't impress nor sell. The C450 AMG shares few underpinnings with the C300 and failed C400 and is predicted to be a much better drive, and seller. It's a 'real AMG' to Mercedes Benz. Sure, the C63 is another option too.

c4004matic

See what I mean about desktop experts?
Another guy that has never driven the car and probably will never have a C450 opining about what he knows nothing about. Just part of the environment around here.
Again, if you have tried a 300, you will have a good idea of the dynamics, the C 450 will just add a lot of power to the formula. Its not a C63 light despite what Mercedes and other easily impressed people think since it has 30% less power, it drives all 4 wheels, has a shorter wheelbase, etc. If that is what you are looking for the C450 will be the right car for you. If you skip the other extra AMG sticker crap that will not do anything for performance like seats, diffusers and other crap you'll get a car that performs great and wont make you go broke.

dunderhi

Aren't you being hypocritical claiming others who haven't driven the C450 have no clue how it drives, yet you claim it drives just like a C300? I have read the detailed reviews written by experts who have driven the C450 and they praise it's handling and performance. Some even claim it's a better performance choice over the C63. So until the masses drive the C450 for themselves, all desktop expert opinions, including your own, are irrelevant.

c4004matic

I thought desktop non owning experts agreed that the c300 drove wonderfully while the C400 didnt? (another fantasy from the computer experts) I wish you desk jockeys would make up your mind!
I guess everyone that claimed the c300 danced like a ballerina was also full of it Can you non owning, never driven experts make up your mind? Again the C450 is finally here you can now go put your money where your mouth is! When you do, feel welcome to give your actual driving and buying impressions. Till then let people who really own C class cars give advice to those that will buy one!

dunderhi

Since you have absolutely zero firsthand experience in the C450, by your own words, you yourself are not qualified to give advice in this C450-specific thread. Maybe you can help someone thinking about buying a low mileage used C400 that was traded in for a new C450. So, thank you for your uninformed participation. See ya.

oldman&theC

I have driven the C400 and liked it.I decided to wait to purchase a c450 when I heard it was coming out.I ordered a c 450 in august and expect it in about 3 weeks.The net diff in price between the c400 & the C450 is $1800.If you can't see what a bargain this is with about 20 differences from the C400,some of them are major differences you are brain dead.The C450 was never intended to compete with the C63,hence the 10K diff in price.All magazines that have driven the C450 say it is much better balanced and handles better than the C400.If you look at your own words about how the C300 was the superior handling car vs the C400 you should see that Mercedes addressed this problem in the C450 with the upgraded C63 suspension components.You can talk all you want how everyone who does't agree with you doesn't know what they are talking about,but you should look in the mirror if you want to see the biggest offender.

Vipershade

I have provided facts... you can make your own conclusions based on these facts.

In your own words, the only thing that you should be making any conclusions on, is the C400.

It is clear what your conclusion of the C400 is... it needs a $2200 warranty-voiding hack to even move it on to the same playing field.

Vipershade

So we should take the desktop experts (your words) word for it, that it is not a C63 light? Because apparently we can't take Mercedes' word for it.

Oh yeah, and it's the same wheelbase genius:





Your not so much with the facts, are you?

Here is another one, every AMG Sedan 4MATIC (including the E63 S, CLS63 S, and S63) uses the exact same torque bias (33/67), and the AMG SUV 4MATICs (including the GLE63, GLE63 S, GLE450 coupe, GLE63 S coupe, and GL63) all use the same bias (40/60). What was the C400's?

Desktop expert stop trying to sound informed.

c4004matic

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...ss-C/model-C63
http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicl...C/model-C400W4


The C 63 is 3 inches longer than the regular C Class 187 vs 184.5 its also 1 inch wider 71.3 vs 72.4. You can read cant you? The length difference is a stretch to cram the V8, the rear difference is to fit a modified wider AMG rear set up. The nose stretch is also handy to put the AMG swoop on the fenders too! Those additional 150 horses need a longer nose for comfort.

Vipershade

Seriously? Do you even know what wheelbase means? This is getting comical.

z28lt1

Can't believe this is even a discussion. The suspension is totally different. It is true, you can't really compare it to the C300, and C400. And while ordinary people/customers have yet to drive a C450, plenty of professionals have. Fortunately, for us, many of them have also driven the C300 and C400 to compare. Below are a couple of snippets from US based audo magazines that tested both the C400 and C450.

I cut-and-pasted the parts relating to suspension because the power and brakes are probably well understood by people reading the specs, and some(one) in this thread refuses to acknowledge the suspension differences.

I'm sure anyone with an agenda will dismiss these professional reviews, which is their choice, but I do use things like this in my decisions. There are plenty more, but I didn't want to make this post longer than it already is...

Car and Driver:
C400 -
"

But this particular C400, optioned up to $61,755 and weighing a mighty 3850 pounds, takes a quarter-step back from the handling heights achieved by others in the Mercedes catalog. It is a little soft and feels a lot heavier, undoubtedly because it is rather heavy. However, if your car tastes and budget lead you to this vehicle, this unicorn standing at the summit of the current C-class range, then you shouldn’t be disappointed with these findings. We aren’t. This is a product for people wanting an S-class that is able to sneak into compact-car parking spots...


This heavy C hustles. The just-average 0.88-g skidpad is a byproduct of the 4MATIC’s ability to create understeer. This is not the kind of four-wheel-drive system meant to rally-kick the rear end sideways out of a corner. Rather, it’s an all-weather assistant that generates sales in snowy states without really adding anything to the car’s dry-road handling. As you turn into a corner, you feel the mass resisting a change of direction. The suspension needs a millisecond to roll over and compress, then the turn happens. It’s all fairly quick and, by model-year-2004 standards, a wonder of athletic ability, but it doesn’t raise the blood pressure."


C450
"acceleration is forceful, as the power is delivered in a rapid crescendo and with but a whiff of turbo lag. Mercedes conservatively pegs zero to 60 mph at 4.9 seconds—we achieved 4.7 in the C400—and with all four wheels doing the clawing, it stays more glued to the road than the tail-happy, rear-drive C63, especially when rocketing away from tight, bumpy corners at full tilt. As with the C63, Sport and Sport+ downshifts are served up just when you want them with a throttle-blipped exhaust bark once you go for the brakes. All the while, the V-6 sounds incredible, with a lighter, less restrictive exhaust system than the C400 and a delicious crackling pop-pop-pop on overrun that recalls that of the Jaguar F-type V-6. This is a powertrain that encourages you to wring it out. Like, all the time.


Equally impressive is the C450 AMG’s chassis, which received quite a workout on the lumpy, twisting ribbons of asphalt that snake through southern Portugal’s Algarve region. The car rides on a uniquely developed multilink suspension with three-stage electronically adjustable dampers that come straight out of the C63. Whether bombing down smooth, high-speed straights or making quick left-right-left transitions on broken asphalt, the chassis loyally transmits the road’s texture at all four contact patches. Steering response is immediate, with satisfyingly linear buildup of effort and copious feedback tickling the driver’s fingertips. Even on long, winding descents, the brakes (with rotors measuring a robust 14.2 inches up front and 12.5 inches out back) always seemed to have enough power in reserve, with excellent pedal feedback. If there’s a bone to pick, it’s that the stiffest of the three-stage adjustable shock settings can be too brittle....


So the eminently satisfying C450 AMG packs enough performance to be a full-blooded AMG model just a decade ago, and today it offers something like 75 to 80 percent of an Affalterbach special. Which is to say that it’s damn good."
---------------


Motor Trend:


c400 (comparing to a c250, which they noted wasn't a US model)

"The more powerful and heavier C400 is a different story. First of all, the C400 comes standard with all-wheel drive. Couple that to the heavier V-6 powerplant and it’s obvious that the C400’s weight balance is much more nose-heavy than the C250/C300. The handling wasn’t as crisp. The ride was both more wallowing and clunkier than the C250, and the shifts were more sluggish."


c450

"Out on the road, the C450 AMG's dynamics occupy a decidedly sweet spot in the C-Class lineup -- way more powerful and fun to toss around than the cooking-grade C300, quieter and slightly more comfortable than the C63 with a noticeably lighter, more nimble nose. Having driven them directly back-to-back, the C450's steering and turn-in actually felt more satisfying on public roads. On a wide, smooth track with FIA-approved runoff and protection and no opposing traffic, I'll choose the C63 every time, but in southern Portugal's hilly, twisty, narrow, Algarve hill country with Sport+ and soft damping selected, the C450's sure-footedness and agility proved delightfully engaging with just a bit of that "more fun to drive a slow car fast" thing going for it. And then there's that equally engaging exhaust note — you get the C63's same sort of braaps and farts on downshifts and overrun, just sung in a slightly higher V-6 register. You'll find yourself fingering the minus paddle just to enjoy the noise....Class-dominating power that sounds as good as it feels plus race-bred dynamics and just enough visual drama satisfy me that these cars have earned their black AMG badges. "

Vipershade

This was one of the reviews that added in my decision (from UK's Car Magazine):

What about that all-wheel-drive chassis?

It’s very, very good. Our test route flowed up into the Portuguese hills over some pretty challenging terrain, and the C450 delivered a brilliant balance of composure and engagement. The front end grips hard, and when you get on the throttle you can really feel the rear bias pushing you through the corner. In some ways it’s actually more satisfying than the C63, because you can deploy most of the power most of the time. It’d be fascinating to compare lap times on a wet circuit.

In Comfort mode the chassis feels very, well, comfortable, with the obvious trade-offs in absolute handling finesse. Perhaps Sport Plus will feel like overkill in the UK, but on these test roads it worked brilliantly: excellent body control, meatier steering, telepathic gearbox logic and that more exciting soundtrack.

And all – on these roads at least – without completely destroying the ride quality.

c4004matic

Since our desktop reviewers only know computer opinions here are some
No handling complaints here!

z28lt1

So, how are these helpful to understand the difference or similarities between the C400 and C450, which was what we were discussing?

(And secondarily, have you heard of any of these guys before searching for reviews? I mean, I read CNET reviews for hard drives and such, but never thought to check them for an auto review)

Vipershade

No one cares about your C400 reviews... why would we?

c4004matic

Given that your knowledge of the C400 extends only to keyboard expertise I thought those would be illuminating to your C400 knowledge.
Again not really pertinent anymore since its been replaced by the C450, however it serves as good remedy from your diarrhea of the mouth regarding bad handling, and the "disaster" the C400 was supposed to be. The C450 is a good refresh of the model but will suffer from some of the same marketing problems. Expensive for a non AMG Cclass. limited availability making test driving difficult, etc (WHICH IS THE REASON FOR THIS POST).
Again when any of you buy one please report on it thoroughly. Im sure it will be great since its meant to be an incremental improvement on an already capable model. I don't think anyone disputes that. I just find utterly stupid to blindly crap on the C400 for almost 2 years because a "better" model was coming! BTW a car none of you seems to have driven never mind owned!!!!


Back to the original question: yes you can buy a C450 blind. It should be great. Since finding one on a dealer might be difficult, try a C300 specially if it has the sport option, the 450 will be similar with noticeably more, in particular, power.

Vipershade

Thanks... the next time someone asks about buying a C400 site unseen, we can pull out your reviews. Until then, please take your extreme bias, lack of factual knowledge, and unmitigated ignorance to a forum that can't tell the difference.

c4004matic

Ill be watching for your expert impressions ONCE YOU BUY A C450! Im sure they will be "right on the money" In the mean time since you don't own a C class and obviously haven't driven one for more than a mile in a parking lot just take a break. I will be waiting on baited breath till then!

oldman&theC

Vipershade I have concluded that talking to this guy is like talking to a bucket of rocks.He obviously doesn't have a clue what he is talking about,but feels he will always get the last word.Even if the last word does't make any sense.I will not bother responding to his dumb posts in the future which will cause him to think he won the argument.Where he will smile to himself thinking "I showed all those dummies how smart I am".

c4004matic

Wow another expert BMW owner that doesn't have a C class, please grace us with all your factual experience!

Vipershade

Roger that... but next time, don't be so disparaging towards the rocks

c4004matic

Good one!You're so clever! Did you come up with that one by yourself????? Let me guess, no C class yet.......

kellens

C4004matic isn't new to trolling. He has been kicked off this and other forums forum before for spewing misinformation, and negative propaganda. He's on his way to having his keyboard taken away again I'd suspect. There's probably nobody on here less informed, objective or less credible than him.

c4004matic

Army intelligence.......a contradiction in terms.......