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Spoiler alert: If you presently derive a great deal of satisfaction knowing your car audio system was lovingly crafted by a world renowned audiophile using audiophile grade materials, maybe stop reading now.
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This weekend we've been working on an Audison/Focal upgrade to the W205 Burmester Premium Audio system. We're installing a Prima 8.9 DSP amp so we can gain some control over equalization, re-configuring the footwell "subwoofers" to play more in the mid-bass range (electronically via the Prima. We're not touching the speakers themselves) and adding a small sub in the trunk to take on the lows we pulled from the footwell speakers.
We're also replacing the front door 4" 2 ways with Focal KRS100 4" 2 Ways, with everything installed behind the stock speaker grilles.
I'll be doing a full write up on the system design and tuning rationale at some point. In an odd bit of foreshadowing, while we were doing the front door speakers I joked that we needed to be careful with the grilles, since they probably cost more than the Burmester speakers behind them. And that turned out to be totally true!
As soon as the 4" mid and tweeter were pulled I knew exactly what I was looking at. In my prior 221, I ended up doing a total gut job to rid myself of the woes of the terrible Harman/Kardon standard audio system. It's universally reviled for being hollow, shrill, tinny and lacking punch. The main culprits were Harman's off-the-shelf, go-to 4" midrange drivers, of which the 221 had seven. Really. Seven. These nasty little buggers are cheap and they sound cheap.
(In fact, I created a blog detailing my adventures in rehabbing the 221's audio. That's how bad it was and how large an undertaking.)
Harman used the nasty 4" speaker in virtually all of its BMW and Mercedes OEM systems, usually paired with an 8" shallow mount "pancake" sub. In BMW, the subs installed beneath the seats. In Mercedes they were used in the front doors of the 221. They're so bad that Focal actually found enough aftermarket demand to create drop-in replacements for them, the Focal IFBMWS 4" and IFBMWS 8" Sub.
So here's what we've got in the W205 Burmester, side by side with the Harman/Kardon.
Virtually identical. Same motor design, same magnet, same voice coil, same basket, same foam surround, same tri-lobe mount. There's a difference in cone material, but unfortunately the advantage goes to the HK, which gets a plasticized metal material called ALumaprene, whereas the Burmester gets good old treated paper. Honestly I hate ALumaprene but at least it cost them a little extra.
Here are the Burmester tweeters, side by side with the Harman/Kardon. These are off the shelf 1" silk dome tweeters used by hundreds of car audio companies. I have a coffee can full of them in my garage. At least the Burmester version gets a cool Mercedes star on top.
Burmester touts their use of "warm, natural sounding analog crossovers" as opposed to adding more channels to the amp and having active digital crossovers, which cost more. Here, for your viewing pleasure, is the warm natural sounding analog crossover, also known as a 5 cent capacitor glued on the back of the tweeter.
So, yeah, we maybe got bamboozled by some slick marketing and lovely shiny laser-cut speaker grilles. I haven't pulled one of the footwell subs, but that too looks an awful lot like the Harman/Kardon 8" shallow mount sub as well. That's not to say the system isn't decent sounding as far as OEM audio goes, and it's not like MB charges a fortune for the Burmester upgrade, but damn...
Yeah, a lot of systems probably sound better. My beater 2005 Camry has an OEM JBL system that blows the W205 Burmester away. First off, it's got a full array of speakers...tweeters, midranges, woofers and a sub. The Bose in my W220 S Class was also very good, and also had a full compliment of speakers.
The Burmester gets seven 4" midrange, 4 tweeters and a combo sub/mid-bass woofer. It's essentially like those all-in-one sub/sat home theater systems with a bass module and seven little satellite speakers for the left, right, center and rear surrounds. *******s!
I would be pissed if I pay $6400 Burmester on the S class and still get the same crap.
I don't know about that. Not the part about the 3D Surround Burmester on the S. I have no idea what's in there. The part about expecting to find cheap stuff in a "Burmester" system. Burmester is a very high end niche brand that builds exorbitantly expensive home audio. Like Mark Levinson for Lexus, except the ML systems are actually really good. This honestly feels like a bit of a cheat on MB's part.
It would be one thing if Burmester chose cheap components but somehow configured and tuned the system to be accurate and powerful but it ain't that. It's kind of shrill and boomy when you turn the volume up, which, knowing what's in there, is not surprising.
I really expected the Burmester speakers to be comparable to the Focals. At least the main set on the front doors.
Disappointing to an extent, but as long as it sounds good, I'm not too hung up on the details of the materials used, etc.
Remember that last weekend the system sounded good, with "great fidelity and detail" (see below). Now I know the mind can be a powerful thing and once you see the construction of something it's easy to have your impression of it change, but I was never under the impression this would be an out of this world audio system. I just know that a lot of people who know a lot about audio have seemed to think it produces a quality output.
I have Phillips Fidelio X1s driven by a DAC and amp on my PC in my home office, no car system is ever going to sound that good...but as long as it sounds good enough with high quality with decent fidelity, I'm okay with it. It's a stock system after all.
All of that said, I'm jealous as hell of how good your new setup is going to sound. I just can't get myself to invest in any more audio gear than I already own.
Last edited by inhartwetrust; 04-09-2016 at 11:45 PM.
Ahh, the honeymoon period. Yeah, I'd had the car about a week at that point but I felt the system sounded pretty clean right out of the box (and I still do). Not especially powerful, but clean and listenable. Based on those first impressions I expected to be able to get it where I really wanted it without much ado.
What I began to notice as I played with it more was that it wasn't responding to tuning as I would have expected. I was chasing tighter mid-bass but it caused the low end to get sloppy. If I got the lows where I wanted them, the midbass disappeared. If I rolled up the volume the mids, which sound fine at low listening levels, went from clear and detailed to harsh and brassy.
But I figured if I was starting out with good gear to begin with, adding the Audison and Focal stuff (and the ability to shape the sound beyond Treble/Midtones/Bass) I should end up with a killer system. I'm just a little bummed that my Premium Burmester audio system turned out to be a standard Harman/Kardon system underneath.
But I'll keep plugging away at it. The shop ran out of time while we were configuring the Prima. Two channels (left front door, left footwell sub) aren't playing. Rather than leave it overnight and all day Sunday when they're closed I took it and I'll bring it back Monday. The 10" JL sub is beyond overkill so I think I'll swap that out for two 8" in a sealed box. On a new system there's always this period where it's a hassle getting everything to work the way I'd hoped. Tint looks good. Still have't gotten the tires installed.
Ah, I got ya. Decent system out of the box but not much headroom for improvement. That makes sense and I can see where that could cause some issues. Hopefully it won't cause too many headaches trying to get her all tuned in.
Do car speakers need a break in period like high quality headphones before they really start to shine? Maybe they'll improve over time a bit for you after some more breaking in
There may be some burn in, but I'm really familiar with these speakers unfortunately, and I don't see them warming up much. Here are my trials and tribulations with them in my S Class.
The S gave me a little more to work with, as it had regular 6" woofers in the rear doors and a dedicated factory sub on the rear shelf in addition to the two 8" subs in the front doors. The C, just because of the physical limitations of the enclosures, is going to be a bigger challenge I'm afraid. Which sucks, because this was the install I planned on just coasting through.
I guess the point of my post was not to dissuade anyone who enjoys the system as-is, but rather to let those guys who find it maybe a little lacking know they're not nuts, and it won't be committing sacrilege to start swapping stuff out if the need arises.
Wouldnt it be better to "by ears" compare the entry level sound system with the Burmester instad of visually comparing them with off the shelf parts.
There is more to the Burmester than just the drivers.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Burmester blows the entry level W205 system away, but apparently everyone has different expectations on how a "premium" sound system should perform.
I am willing to bet that the Burmester performance is by far sufficient for the average joe.
Well unfortunately the drivers tell the story. There's just not much to them. There's also a ton of equalization baked into the amp to compensate as best it can for the wimpy speakers. In a system like this the footwell speakers would theoretically do the heavy lifting but they're not really up to it.
I just de equalized the head unit and now I can start tuning from a flat signal. I agree the base audio system is really abysmal. No comparison to the upgraded version.
Mike
I came to the same conclusion , see below for HW upgrade:
Focal 100KRS 4" comp spark, replaced metal grills in front with black cloth
Illusion Audio L10 flat 10" woofer
custom footwell sub enclosure
I had the sub changed to JL Audio 10W3V3, 10" subwoofer and moved to the trunk after 3 month trail
Genesis Profile 5 5ch amplifier, x-overs, bass control ready, fan cooled
Hrs. Labor, Store Bought Equipment custom amp mounting panel under rear deck
Hrs. Labor, Store Bought Equipment dissamble and reassemble rear deck area
Mosconi 6to8V8 DSP
Mercedes factory system
remote sub control knob
system w RTA and DSP
Wire, Power and Ground
RCA cable
I paid 6400......guess I got the same crap, but the sound is fine for my non perfectionist ears My family is in the car 90% of the time anyway
I have to believe there's more there in the $6400 premium system in the 222. I guess I expected to find a Burmester speaker behind the Burmester grille. It's like someone put grocery store champagne in a bottle of Dom and re-corked it. It's not terrible tasting champagne, it just ain't Dom.
I don't think MB is alone in the use of cheap components in their upgraded systems. I had a Lexus LS430 with the Mark Levinson system and the drivers in that rig looked like $2 Radio Shack trash. They sounded OK (as Mike mentioned - baked-in equalization), but they didn't age well. When I pulled out the $10 factory sub and replaced it with an aftermarket driver and a 500-watt class-D amp, the whole system changed.
At some point in the future, I'll be asking about potential upgrades to the HK system in a W212, but for now, I'm waiting. I am not confident yet that the electronics in the car are flawless and stable, and don't want to allow the dealer any wiggle room on warranty coverage.
^I prefer Bollinger RD myself been sitting on a bottle of '85 for years!
Originally Posted by Arthrodesis
Maybe I'm exaggerating a little, but i do not think the burmester is worth the upgrade.
In most of my previous cars, I've had always upgraded the stereo system with aftermarkets. Maybe I'm just spoiled by them.
It's not a crazy expensive upgrade, and at least it gets you the two front subs and pre wiring for two ways in all the doors. The base Audio20 is a 4" in each door and one footwell sub. Plus I think a majority of owners would find the Burmester totally satisfying. It's just us guys who've been into car audio as enthusiasts who take exception.
I'm always optimistic when I dig into a premium factory system trying to get it to sound right, and I'm always disappointed when I realize I'm up against hardware limitations. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson by now.
It doesn't strike you as odd that the speaker behind the Burmester speaker grille isn't a Burmester speaker? I mean they kind of went overboard with the polished steel laser etched grille with the Burmester logo engraved on it. It's sort of an implied promise. I was thinking the car came with Burmester speakers, or a Burmester amp or both. But I guess Burmester designed and sourced the system using inexpensive, existing, off the shelf stuff and tacked their name on it.
I just de equalized the head unit and now I can start tuning from a flat signal. I agree the base audio system is really abysmal. No comparison to the upgraded version.
Well I got the Audison tuned to about 90% of where I want it. The factory center channel and rear deck surrounds (which are still on the factory amp) were so shrill and disproportionately loud I had to temporarily muffle them to do the tuning (by ear) by placing some thin foam between the grilles and the speakers. Then everything balanced out and blended nicely.
The Audison has a de-equalization function and I normally don't use it but the Burmesters hard wired eq scheme was whacky. Way too much loose mid bass into the footwell subs. After I got back to a flat signal was the first "Oh yeah, THERE it is" moment. Huge improvement over stock. I guess it's fair to say it sounds like a premium system should sound.
I may have gone overboard on the 10" JL sub box. I'm never looking for "boom". I want tight, percussive low end, almost exclusively kick drum, and even that I want set to the lowest level necessary to physically feel it hit. The shop has some smaller options. I think 2 8" would be ideal and I'll try swapping that out.
So cost wise, $750 for the Focal 2 Ways, $900 for the Prima (installed in the trunk on the right quarter), $300 for the little JL sub amp (installed beneath the factory amp in the trunk well) and whatever the sub box ends up being. Probably another $600 in labor and install parts and another $200 to Hushmat but these guys do competition grade work. I felt bad covering it up.
Figure $2700 all-in, which I justified by deciding to send my kids to Community College. Honestly, the $750 Focals are overkill. It's a midrange and a tweeter. The tweeter is really nice but with the Audison's signal processing power you could just leave the Burmester(?) speakers in all the way around.
That puts you a little under $2k out the door, maybe low enough to fly under wife-radar. Complete stealth install (beside the sub box) and total OEM Integration.
04-09-2016, 10:45 PM
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, see below for HW upgrade:
My family is in the car 90% of the time anyway
