Yeah, the relationship in price between the base C and the C63 is the typical AMG premium. Almost double.

The C450 is much more akin to the C300 than it is the C63. As cool as the 450 is, a C63 in the flesh is a different level of beast. Much more imposing, especially up front, and the exhaust note is totally different. More bass, less treble.

 

The size difference is the result of stuffing a GT S engine into a car that wasn't made for it.

There are more commonalities between a C450 and C63 than there are between a C450 and C400.

 

You mean beside the body and the engine?

 

Common to both C63 and C450 (not on C400): suspension, front axle, front rotors, steering profile, steering wheel, HUD (display/fonts, RPM upshift, racetimer), and the interior upgrades (perf seats, designo, fiber glass trim, and carbon fiber trim).

 

I guess you could look at it either way. Did MB start with the premise of tuning a C400, or did they intend to de-content a C63 to make a car quicker and better handling than a C400 but much more affordable than a C63.

I think the C450 is closer to a tuned C400 than a budget C63. Not a slam on the C450, but the C63 is quite a bit more car. Just my take.

 

If you compare just the engines, than I would agree. If you remove the engine (or assume for argument sake that all three vehicles have the same engine), than the C450 looks more like a C63 than it does like a C400 from a purely parts perspective.

 

i think my point is, they don't have to build special stampings and body panels for the C450 since its basically a C400 with tuning and new suspension.

They don't have to have special axles that are wider , or a longer hood for the longer engine etc.

C400 coupe review, i mean it basically looks like a C450 or C300 and is the same dimensions

 

Yeah, I believe the C450 suspension is based on the C63's but unique to the C450. Same with the brakes. Wheel offsets are different. The electronic shocks might be a direct transfer. I think MB wisely created enough daylight between the two cars to not lose C63 sales to the C450.

 

I dislike the cla45, but in comparison to the C55 it is light years ahead in just about everything. Honestly, I wouldn't even call a C55 a real amg.

As for the cost difference in a w204 C63, yes it does cost more to maintain. On a true amg , everything cost more from brakes to extended warranty.

See ya on the PL.

 

Even if both suspension had a different option number, AMG wouldn't develop a new C-Class suspension just for the purpose of being "less" then that of the flagship. The difference would be for technical reasons. In this case both suspensions have the same option number 488 AMG Adaptive Suspension, which in the case of cars in the same class means that short of a few technical differences, they are identical.

AMG doesn't do "slower," if they have already done all of the development homework to create a performance component, they are not going to reproduce the development for the sole purpose of making a sub-performing component.

 

I believe the C450's suspension was adapted from the C63, but was not a direct swap because the dimensions on the C63 are different. I think we're talking minor changes in lengths, since the nose of the C63 is stretched and widened.

It would also make sense that the C63 underpinnings would be beefier, given a 140 hp and 132 fp torque advantage over the C450. Those power advantages lead to the need for bigger, better brakes on the C63.

The MSRP numbers tell the story, at least as far as what Mercedes has in them. The spread between the C63s base and the C300 is an extra $34,000, roughly a 100% premium.

The spread between a C450 and a C300 AWD is $9850. Because the C450/43 is a C400 with an AMG tune.

If Mercedes wanted to give the C63 a baby brother with a TTV6 and a lower MSRP, but everything else, body, suspension, exhaust, brakes, being equal they could have simply dropped that same TTV6 engine into that same car.

They didn't, choosing instead to make the C63 exclusive as a stand alone pure AMG car and leave the C450 back at the kiddie table with its C300 cousins. But the 450 is the cool cousin that smokes and got a girl pregnant in high school

 

I don't know how many parts are exactly the same between the C63 and C450, and since the online parts vendors don't seem to have the 2016 catalog out, and will be some time until we can research for sure. But you are correct, the C450 was not intended to be a replica of the C63 with a smaller motor. That doesn't seem like a good sales strategy. It is meant to be more of a livable driver. With AWD, and a calmer presence, it is a very capable sports sedan, and not an outright track capable car that gives up some livability for all its got.

That said (and we've been through this before) the C450 is no more a C300 with an different engine than it is a C63 with a different engine. The C400 was literally a C300 with a different engine. The C450 has a completely different suspension setup, from wider track, stiffer body structure, C63(or C63 like) geometry and setup, bigger brakes, transmission tuning, C63 ESP tuning, steering changes, some exterior and interior styling differences, exhaust, whole different 4Matic setup, etc...

I bet if you list the parts that are different between the C63 and C450, you'll find a very similar list of parts that are different between the C450 and C300.

MSRP is not the appropriate way to judge the difference between vehicles within the same line -- for the most part is a reflection of how they want to position it within the line and what they think the market will bear. AMGs get a premium because of the name, and the (former) exclusivity they carried. You think the price difference between the C63 and the C300 aligns with the internal cost difference? More likely the profit margin on the C63 is higher than the C300, because of how they want to position it and what the market will pay for it.

 

Not sure why this debate is going on.

I went in to test drive a c300, was thinking I was going to be downgrading from the S4 that I currently have with other priorities of buying a home taking precedence over the car I was driving.

Ended up test driving both the c300 and c450, mainly just drove the 450 to ensure I wasn't missing out on something bigger and better - primarily thinking the difference between the two would be minimal. Boy was I wrong.

The c300 had a decent amount of power, definitely enough for a daily driver (which the car would be serving). I was a little unhappy with the amount of understeer I felt when cornering - probably my biggest complaint with the c300, in general. It pretty much felt like driving a fairly generic vehicle, it didn't excite me and maybe some of this bias comes from the thought of it being a downgrade from the S4 - which is a fairly entertaining vehicle.

I wanted to entertain test driving a c450 and I almost didn't even do it. I got in it and it instantly put a smile on my face. I was grinning ear to ear the entire time. The exhaust note and gurgles and pops really gave the car some personality - something missing even from my S4. I honestly thought the c450 wouldn't be as good as the S4, but I liked it more. After watching reviews of the 450 it became more apparent why the c300 and c450 felt so different.

Now, I will be taking delivery of the c450 in 2 weeks time and I am eager to get out of the S4, which is saying a lot. I have loved the S4, I've done some minor modding to it and the low end torque and supercharger whine and the manual transmission (I'm a die hard manual guy) made it a fantastic car.

For me as a die hard manual guy to be eager to get into an automatic is saying a lot IMO.

 

Congrats on the new toy! I guess the real test would be to test drive a C63 back to back with a C450 and the S4 and see if you felt like the C450 got you most of the way there but for a lot less money. I recall reading a C&D review of the 450 that said essentially that. That from the driver's seat of the 450 they didn't miss the C63's extra power enough to warrant the price premium for the "pure" AMG car. I don't think there's any question the C450/43 is a performance bargain. It would be that with or without the AMG name associated to it.

So did you get your S4 when they were still putting NA V8's in them or later on when they went to the V6? I was looking to lease an S5 in 2012 and they'd ditched the V8 at that point so I kept looking. Something psychological about the V6 that felt like a step down even though the numbers were just as good. (They may have even been better). My wife got an A5 that she LOVED. I felt like the interior, while nicely designed, was chintzy. The floor mats were like thin sheets of cardboard. The leather was very plasticky, brittle and showed wear early on (Linen interior color) and I HATED the seats. Could not get comfortable in that car. But it drove beautifully.

 

I had a b8 A4 and then a b8.5 s4 (the supercharged V6). It won 10 best engine awards in 2013. It definitely is a fantastic engine, no v8 noise, but that's the only thing missing.

 

Yeah, everyone including MB started replacing higher displacement NA engines with turbo charged lower displacement units around that time. MB replaced the 5.5 V8 in the 221 S Class with a smaller TTV8 in 2012 with way more power. Just a mental thing for me having NA V8s in one form or another since 2005.

 

I'm new to Mercedes, but I was constantly reading how the 450 was not a "true" AMG. I didn't understand it, but felt like I was the newcomer to the brand so what did I know.


All I knew about AMG in the past was the car was a high performance version of their regular car. That's it, no more no less. I naturally saw the performance figures of the C450 just before purchase and thought it was "AMG" type numbers, so I thought cool! I was all in with both hands and feet. The performance did not disappoint me by any means, and feel that whether the car is considered a true AMG or not means squat as it performs like one IMO.....


Maybe I should just shut up and let the real AMG experts tell me how mine is fake....

 

Back in the day, an AMG car was an extremely modified version of the base car. For example, a base S550 sedan started at around $97,000. The S63 AMG started at $135,000 and the S65 at $202,000. The S63 almost doubled the horsepower of the base car, and the S65 more than doubled it. An AMG car was about stuffing enormously powerful engines into ordinary cars, and beefing up everything else to handle the massive increase in performance in the over the top way only Germans can.

As a result, AMG cars on the road were relatively rare and held in high esteem. Ownership of one conferred a certain level of success.

Mercedes for awhile has tried to have it both ways...retain the exclusivity of the AMG brand while also diluting it by sticking AMG badges on otherwise non AMG cars.

For example, in 2007, the first year of the W221 S Class, Mercedes broke with tradition and put an AMG badge on a base 550 that had an AMG "appearance package". Basically a 4 piece body kit and wheels. Zero performance increase. "Real" AMG guys called foul and the badges disappeared for 2008 and on.

The C450 occupies a gray area between the base car and the pure AMG C63s. It does not offer twice the power or performance of the base car, and it doesn't approach the bump in MSRP either.

It's not a "poser" like the 07 221, as it has a good deal of AMG hardware in it. I think it's the future of the AMG brand, where you'll start seeing more "near AMG" models that split the difference between the base car and whatever monstrosity the "pure AMG" version is for a given model.

It's interesting to me that Mercedes quietly added the "s" designation to the top end C63 to distinguish it. My guess is that little "s" is there to placate buyers who would like the world to know they drive a pure AMG car and all that entails.

If it works, Mercedes will have succeeded in monetizing the AMG brand for mass market appeal while still appeasing owners of the more extreme, much more expensive versions.

Meanwhile, I think in terms of bang for the buck and smiles per mile, the C450 is a winner irrespective of badging.

 

Quite honestly, I would have never looked at the brand had it not been for the GLA/CLA 45's and the C450.


Those models drew me in and opened my eyes to Mercedes. Their little marketing ploy worked like a charm on me. I can honestly say that this won't be my last Mercedes, and obviously I will likely progress up the model line if I am able to.


Thanks for the info Mike.......

 

Yeah, I think the conundrum is that the target market for performance cars is guys in their twenties, thirties and forties who aren't going to eat a $1400 a month car note on a $90,000 car.

Guys in the 50+ range who can swing a payment like that start leaning more toward luxury for the money and away from sport, because our ********* are shrinking and we're going to die soon anyway.

 

Rented a C300 to cruise around the Rockies this weekend. It's very nice, peppy, enough booty to get in and out of traffic safely and quickly, very quick on it's feet. Steering is actually pretty damn smooth and responsive!

Local MB dealership back in Austin is gonna see if they can transfer a C400 from an out of state lot.

 

Good luck. C400 is a nice machine. Why don't you up the ante a bit and see if you can swing a C450?

 

OOPS! Sorry, you already explained the C450..........

 

I'm not going to lie and say I laughed at this post. But I did briefly exhale through my nose quite abruptly, which is the same thing nowadays

 

True.

As a two time BMW owner, I cross shopped all the usual suspects before buying the c450 and the interior was the deciding factor. Arguably one can build a BMW 4 series with X drive and sport package or an Audi S3 for roughly ballpark $ compared to the c450. The merc (right now) simply beats the Audi and BMW interiors.

I've found it to be the perfect executive sedan that will also smoke most cars when pushed.