Here is a breakdown of the C400 and C450 differences:

 

Some notes in-line.

 

Yeah it's tough to cross over once you've become accustomed to a brand and been happy with it. I get into a BMW or Audi now and wonder what the hell they were thinking when they designed it. It feels foreign and I don't trust it enough to take a shot and hope it grows on me.

Generally, on BMWs I find the interior materials to feel cheap and the interior design uninspired. The exception, and a car I would love to have, is the 6 series coupe/vert. But man, they're expensive. By the time I optioned one out, even with the 6 cyl, I was in W222 (new S Class) money.

At least you have the C a shot and you're able to rule it out. (The C43 will solve the performance woes, but not the ergonomics).

 

So you test drove a c400? I have no idea about how that car handles.

But my b8 s4 did not feel as fast as the c450 did. Drove them back to back too.

The c450 was/is better in almost every way. But, hey, if you didn't like it - no sense in buying it.

 

I tried both Sport and Sport+. That didn't help with what I was looking for with the transmission.

I do agree, BMW interiors are a grade lower in terms of quality. But what I find frustrating is that they are designed better from a functional point of view. Ideally I would like the functional design from BMW with the premium material and aesthetic appeal from the C class, for the best interior. Definitely with the seats from BMW. And sound system from the Merc.

With the handling, I am actually very impressed with the C class, in comparison with both BMW and Audi. I didn't expect it to be this good. I half expected a floaty, boaty thing. It is not that at all.

Unfortunately the transmission is the only thing I cannot live with, and apparently I am not in the minority in thinking this. Totally by coincidence, I saw Car and Driver (or was it Road and Track) put the same thing on Facebook, just when I was done with the test drive and I was saying the exact same thing. And even Mercedes is discontinuing these models and coming out with a new transmission, so I tend to think this is not just a "perception" or "getting used to it" thing, it is really a thing with the transmission. So I am going to wait it out and get something else for the time in between. (thinking Golf R? I'll have to see how bad the turbo lag on it is though)

But I can see how once Mercedes have a good transmission in (maybe a dual clutch), this car may (and probably will) blow every other car away - at least when it comes to AWD. BMW will still have RWD supremacy, but I think Audi should be worried.

Once again no offense guys, I am not a one-brand guy, I am a car guy, and these are my honest observations. I went in ready to buy, with my check book and all my documents. My intention is not to troll the C class here. I really love it, but I'm going to wait for them to fix the transmission.

 

How does the C400's steering compare to the C300? I have a C300 rental and it handles surprisingly well, steering is very quick.

 

Car and Driver compared the two and said compared to the crisp, athletic handling of the C300 it felt like someone had stuffed loofa sponges into the suspension of the C400. I haven't driven a C400 but what I understand it's the extra weight of the engine plus AWD that accounts for the difference.

I do have a C300 and I traded my S Class for it after having one as a loaner and falling in love with the steering and handling.

Why are you looking specifically for a 400? The extra power and smoothness of the 6? I agree the T4 isn't sexy but it does get the job done really well. I came from a big V8 and I love how quickly the 4 spools up and loves to rev.

 

Basically. I liked the pep in the 300 but if I could get more, why not?

 

If you're after power you'd be happier with a C450/C43, or if you live in a sunshine state a C63. The C400 barely has 60bhp over the C300 and it is considerably heavier. A C450/C43 has more power, a better tuned tranny, sport suspension, and an amazing steering rack.

A C400 will offer slightly better straight line acceleration over the C300 but the increased body roll and understeer will negate this on cornering. The only benefit the C400 offers over the C450/C43 is the std airmatic. If you want a softer ride get a C450 with the std 18" wheels and swap the runflats for standard tires. Or if the soft ride and a V6 are non-negotiable, just get a 2016 E-class. They will be steeply discounted now that the 2017s are on the way.

 

Everyone has their own subjective opinions on things, but it is really hard to classify the C400's straight line acceleration over the C300 as "slightly" better. It's 1.4 seconds quicker 0-60 (4.7 to 6.1 in Car and Driver Tests), and it is very noticeable if you drive them both.

I do agree with all else you have here though. The C400 felts a little number in handling compared to a C300 which is a very good driver, and the C450 is on a different level for handling. I the US, I though the airmatic was optional on the C400, although it is standard in other places I believe.

 

Yeah, Air was an option. They did all come AWD and in Sport trim though. I was leasing so it wasn't an option but I would have leaned toward the 400. Never had the chance to drive one though. I put Air on my 300 so razor sharp handling wasn't a priority, although I do love the way it handles.

 

If you get a C400 I really urge to look at the airmatic ride, that's what I have. It's like having two different cars,

 

I don't have airmaric so will agree even if it were just for the ability to bring it down a bit.

 

I try not to harp on the benefits of AirMatic since most guys don't have it, mainly because you pretty much had to build the car if you wanted it, but for the $1100 it's a no brainer. It solves so many problems...the over-stiffness of the steel Sport suspension in some road conditions, the ability to Plus One the wheels without sacrificing ride quality, phenomenal comfort on the highway, the ability to drop the car by swapping on variable-length sensor links. The only downside is, as they get older AirMatic systems croak and repairs are expensive. But if you're leasing, or going CPO, AirMatic transforms the W205.

 

Im shying away from the C450 because I don't want to spend 1.5k per axle on a brake change.

 

Huh?

 

The C450 isn't like the logical extension of the C300. It's the irrational bastid child of a C400, a C63 and a chainsaw. You either love it or you don't.

The money wasn't a huge determining factor to me. The S Class inoculated me from sticker shock. The C63, while a little painful, was do able. At $20k less than the W222 I was looking at, it was a steal. But, I didn't like the idea of being stuck with a possibly overly firm ride. Mainly I liked the TTV8, the bodywork, the wheels, and that was it. For $83k I wasn't going to roll the dice and hope I loved it.

The 450 looked for awhile like a good compromise. Not crazy expensive, still fun. Didn't like the engine note, and of course the same ride as the C63.

That left the little C300, and figuring out what I didn't like about it. It was that I felt like the T4 was a step down from a decade of big NA V8s. Which was about ego, not the T4 itself. So once I completed a brief course of psychotherapy, I ordered me up a super de-luxe C300. Great car, no regrets.

 

Not sure what the AMG brake job, pads and rotors, runs on a C450. On an S63/65 it's $3k an axle.

 

MB forces you to replace rotors with brakes, so the C450 runs you about 1.5k per axle.

 

For a vehicle that never hits the track, you are probably looking at one front axle brake job over the life of the vehicle. It's possible that you would need two front brake jobs and a single rear brake job if you drive the vehicle for over 120k miles. Overall, a pretty minor consideration. Additonally, once the vehicle is out of warranty there is zero reason to use MB for something as simple as a brake job. Going to an independent shop and/or using aftermarket performance brake parts will cost 30-60% of what MB is charging at the dealership.

 

I see an E43 with air-ride in your future Mike

 

I'll consider that, yeah. I had read where folks were getting brake jobs at around 30K, so maybe that's not too bad since that is maybe once every two years for me.

I called to a few local places and all of them said their systems do not have parts listed for Mercedes Benz C line.

How much is an oil change in a 450?

 

Once our C450 is out of warranty I'll be shopping for either Brembo or EBC brakes. Performance will be on par or better than OEM. It's likely that Brembo is the OEM for this car anyway.

MB wants a lot of money for oil changes, regardless of vehicle model.

I have a small oil suction pump that I purchased off of Amazon for $18. I use this to change the oil on my Ford and I am able to do the full oil change without getting under the car at all. Again, once the warranty period is over I will change my own oil on the C450 using the suction method. On my V6 Ford this process takes me about 30min from start to finish including cleanup. All I pay for is the oil and filter.

 

Brembo only has 2015 C-class inn there catalog right now. I'm sure they will have 2016 soon. Most people with 2016 street only vehicles haven't worn out their brakes yet

You will have to look around for a good performance shop to do this. It's a easy job, but a cookie cutter chain shop will give you a bunch of BS about "we only use proper OEM parts with our exclusive 300% mark-up in order to ensure the safety of our customers and to guarantee our franchise owner can make both of his boat payments on time"

 

We've been through the brake cost things before in another thread. If a dealer is charging that much for brakes, go somewhere else. The rears on the C450 are relatively small, single piece, plain rotors and single piston calipers. At worst, they should be a few dollars more than a C300, because the rear rotor is slightly larger. I'll buy a little more for the front brakes, since the rotors are drilled, but they are still one piece, and the pervious one piece rotors for MB that were similar were around $200 per. So, $400 for rotors, $300 for pads at worst (should be less)....over 800 for labor? Go somewhere else.



Since no one even has part numbers for the rotors or pads for the C450, I'm wondering how/why the $1500 per axle came from? Some random number a service dude through out as a rough estimate? I just don't believe the number.

Same as the C63, as we've posted somewhere else. I have yet to see someone (without the carbon ceramic rotors) who actually paid $3k per half. I posted previously, the C63S two-piece rotor was expensive from MB, so I could believe it if you replaced the whole two-piece rotors because MB wants to (of course, you can just replace the rings on two-piece rotors, but good luck making that happen at a dealer) then the fronts could be expensive and be $3k (the rotors themselves are like $950 each or so), but the W204 C63 one piece rotor is now under $200 (which is how I estimated the C450s). So who has paid $6k for C63 brakes (non carbon ceramic rotors) or $3k for C450 brakes?