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@Kris404
The best will be to see the level output on RTA - calibrated microphone and pink noise playing - I am using Room EQ Wizard or True RTA with spectrum analyzer to see a freq. response from speakers.
Audison DSP (Ap8.9 which is the one I have installed) is checking the level of input (out from HU) using sine sweep sound and de-equalization using pink noise. This is how it looks before de-eq on mine 2015:
AP8.9 is doing de-eq but personally I do turning this off as I could find this option off better for me.
If you installer has calibrated mic and test tacks with 0dB level then he can test if there when exactly level is decreasing.
For Steg or Rainbow : It can be complicated to find a dealer but maybe ebay? Or Europe internet shops?
Good luck with your system tune and again advice : 3 years lease it is long time so invest money for interior speaker replacement and additional amplifier. Because there is nothing worst than driving the car you "love" everyday with sound system which making you crazy.
Actually I did the same because I couldn't stand sound quality which was worst than the budget car sound system. There is some more things that I dislike in my car: 7G-tronic plus, engine, some rattles - this came out after I start to drive the car everyday after 2-3 months. But car has the look and this is very positive point
What input configuration did you select in your AP8.9 configuration? (0 default?). Does it matter if you are using the software to configure?
Excellent advise, makes logical sense to me, thank you again.
Will do custom mode via USB but modeled after Preset 4 + separate RCA out to my existing trunk sub amp.
I will take you up on that offer of files but I can wait until I get the AP & connectors in a couple of weeks. One quick question, did you put the AP in the trunk or somewhere near the glovebox?
Yes, custom setting in my opinion are the best possible. Presets from factory could be good as someone was preparing that and checking. But everyone as individual preferences and expectations. Go with some different setting and just test it.
No problem, whenever you will be ready, just let me know.
Yes, I installed my amps in trunk. This is how it looks like:
And you can see that usb cable is ready to use anytime
Power supply cable has been run from battery (behind fuse), ground is connected to car ground point inside the trunk. I didn't use AP harness, but I did it by my own. Only doors speakers are supply with original cabling, but for woofers I pulled new cables (2x2,5mm2). Power and ground cables are 4AWG. Under amps (not visible) I have two splitters for +12Vdc and ground and from this splitters there is recommended cable size by Audison - 8awg pulled to both amps.
Would it be possible to use FL- and FR+ for the other side frontbass (Drivers side or passenger) which is missing on stock?
Yes i saw the pictures of frontbass but was not clear if its reflex or not. Thanks for clarifying that.
Was that speakers 41mm overall or mounting depht? Faital pro has mounting depht of 42.6mm. Edit: Did read on Italian forum that door wont close very good after the magical 40mm depht, so even a JL audio C1-400x coax with 46mm mounting depht is out.
So the door 4" mid elements breathe only in the cavity of doorpanels. How leaky is that space in your opinion?
Thinking if an adapter plate for Laterall (cylinder) Tymphany lat-250 elements could be done on the visible (top part) of frontbass?
They are good down to 60-70hz and sensitive aswell (Already have them). Then a Sub for trunk would be easier.
Thank you.
Cannot answer you this question - I think HU will not handle this configuration, anyway what usually HU is supplying in RMS is max 20W per channel, maybe sometime you can have 35W but from after market radio.
Yes, 41 mm was mounting depth. I had to modify door panel, as you mentioned there is a tricky to "click" door panel if there is "deeper" speaker.
Space where frontbass is installed (passenger side and driver side) is very limited. On passenger side you have some electronic components in front of speaker:
Driver side there is a carpet in front (partly) so maybe more space but not that much. If you have Audio20 with 1 frontbass then you can see that on driver side there is a cover for a hole where with burmester system you have second frontbass.
As mentioned previously there is not may options w/o custom panels or adapting burmester frontbass speakers using a bracket with adapter for after market speakers.
What input configuration did you select in your AP8.9 configuration? (0 default?). Does it matter if you are using the software to configure?
Hi,
yes on Ap8.9 I have a preset 0 so nothing and I am using software to configure.
If you select one of the presets depending of your config then there will be no inputs level check and de-eq. There will be only crossovers taken for unit memory together with delay. I didn't check how the config will looks like when preset is chosen on AP8.9 and then connected to PC with software and then downloaded config do pc soft from AP8.9.
Yes there is difference between AP8.9 presets and software used to configuration - you will have more control on almost every strategic point. For example inputs level and clipping check - I do not know how inputs level are defined in any Preset - manufacturer do not know what kind of signal will be played from HU. Also crossovers as I mentioned before are configured by manufacturer based on Prima speaker (which btw. do not find them attractive for me) but if you will decide to go with non Prima speaker then Freqs. Response will be probably different. Software is easy to use and so why not use it
After a thorough read of this thread and others, it seems like there is still no suitable solution for changing the 4" coaxial speakers? I stumbled across this page as I have just learnt the heard way that 43mm deep speakers do not fit. It seems like the (now discontinued) Focal component speakers fit after some modification, but no solutions for coaxial speakers.
Hi, There are coax speakers that fit, but not that good ones. Like Crunch dsx42 or In phase variants of it. Also Hifonics has some. There are separetes of those brands too. You also can search on internet with tags like bmw 1-3-5 series 4" slim speakers. I believe Match by Fischer has one, Ground Zero too. Focal set is availabe still in Europe. Also very expensive separates can be found, like Cdt Audio brand ones.
Last edited by Anderson77; 08-02-2018 at 07:34 AM.
Hi, There are coax speakers that fit, but not that good ones. Like Crunch dsx42 or In phase variants of it. Also Hifonics has some. There are separetes of those brands too. You also can search on internet with tags like bmw 1-3-5 series 4" slim speakers. I believe Match by Fischer has one, Ground Zero too. Focal set is availabe still in Europe. Also very expensive separates can be found, like Cdt Audio brand ones.
Thanks for that. I bought my MB second hand and unfortunately it just has the stock audio which for me is absolutely horrible. I love everything else about the car. Upgrading the audio is proving to be quite the challenge. I'm reluctant to get the Focals because of the mods required, also they're pretty pricey.
Thanks for that. I bought my MB second hand and unfortunately it just has the stock audio which for me is absolutely horrible. I love everything else about the car. Upgrading the audio is proving to be quite the challenge. I'm reluctant to get the Focals because of the mods required, also they're pretty pricey.
Has anyone else come up with something?
I think the only other reasonable options are:
Rainbow Audio Pnp Speakers for MB
Steg PnP Speakers for MB
Retain factory Mids and add Burmester Sail Tweeters ($65/pair) along with replacing 6.5" Frontbass Woofer with 2 x Burmester Woofers ($150 each)
What is the Audio 20 Frontbass part number or numbers?
Is it always on same side, even with left/ right hand steering cars?
Pictures of frontbass placement you can see an opening in bottom of the box, where does it go?
Still the question remains:
Could it be possible to buy second audio 20 Frontbass and bridge it in another pair of speaker outputs?
Thanks.
Last edited by Anderson77; 08-03-2018 at 07:52 AM.
Has anyone tried using the Audio 20 Harness that different Amplifier MFGs offer and connect an amplifier with MOST / Fiber Optic input? Also does anyone have the Burmester connector part number either on the cable or the amplifier? Please let me know.
Yes, custom setting in my opinion are the best possible. Presets from factory could be good as someone was preparing that and checking. But everyone as individual preferences and expectations. Go with some different setting and just test it.
No problem, whenever you will be ready, just let me know.
Yes, I installed my amps in trunk. This is how it looks like:
And you can see that usb cable is ready to use anytime
Power supply cable has been run from battery (behind fuse), ground is connected to car ground point inside the trunk. I didn't use AP harness, but I did it by my own. Only doors speakers are supply with original cabling, but for woofers I pulled new cables (2x2,5mm2). Power and ground cables are 4AWG. Under amps (not visible) I have two splitters for +12Vdc and ground and from this splitters there is recommended cable size by Audison - 8awg pulled to both amps.
Hey damian,
My Prima amp, ASP, cables, Burmester tweeters and woofers have arrived.
Here is my current install plan.
I'm set to install this next week. Let me know what you think.
My Prima amp, ASP, cables, Burmester tweeters and woofers have arrived.
Here is my current install plan.
I'm set to install this next week. Let me know what you think.
Thanks,
Hi Kris404,
good to hear that you have all you equipment.
It looks good. Just double check speaker impedance. In bridge mode (which in your situation will be woofer left and right) AP8.9 can work only at 4 Ohms. So before connection check with multimeter speaker impedance (I do not remember if these are 4 or 2 Ohms). In other case you will have AP8.9 failure (temporary off) as the speaker connected will reach lower impedance than served.
Crossover settings will be as shown in table - you do not have to worry about front mids and tweeters - tweeters will have capacitor installed on input (passive crossover) and mids will get about 3000Hz - which in my opinion is a little bit to high - I cut mids at 500Hz 24dB/oct.So maybe you will miss some mids freqs. Woofer should be good - cut at 80Hz. Rear will be cut a little bit to low - this config is for standard 6,5" woofers and mids installed in our cars will not go down that low.
Anyway, check this config and play different music than if you will miss some freqs. I could prepare you some config files with different settings to compare and some user manual how to...
Good luck with your new installation and let me know how does it sound for you.
Hi Kris404,
good to hear that you have all you equipment.
It looks good. Just double check speaker impedance. In bridge mode (which in your situation will be woofer left and right) AP8.9 can work only at 4 Ohms. So before connection check with multimeter speaker impedance (I do not remember if these are 4 or 2 Ohms). In other case you will have AP8.9 failure (temporary off) as the speaker connected will reach lower impedance than served.
Crossover settings will be as shown in table - you do not have to worry about front mids and tweeters - tweeters will have capacitor installed on input (passive crossover) and mids will get about 3000Hz - which in my opinion is a little bit to high - I cut mids at 500Hz 24dB/oct.So maybe you will miss some mids freqs. Woofer should be good - cut at 80Hz. Rear will be cut a little bit to low - this config is for standard 6,5" woofers and mids installed in our cars will not go down that low.
Anyway, check this config and play different music than if you will miss some freqs. I could prepare you some config files with different settings to compare and some user manual how to...
Good luck with your new installation and let me know how does it sound for you.
Thanks, damian. I just adopted mike's Burmester Prima setup for this Audio 20 install (instead of Match M 5DSP). Since I would be using the same Burmester woofers as his, should not be a problem bridging I would think? Agreed I may have to play around with crossover frequencies to adapt to 4" mids.
Anyway, I'll let you know next week how the install goes then my tuning madness begins
I was wondering if anyone could help me with advice. In AUDIO 20 guide, the Focal crossover box goes into the door panel. I was looking at my door panel today and noticed that the place that was used in the guide is not empty on my car it is occupied with the power seats + memory seats modules. Do your guys' cars not have that or did you do some smart moving around? In the case that you don't have them, I was wondering what would be another good place to put a crossover box? I was thinking about sticking it under the driver's seat and somehow getting the cable into the door panel from the front side. Any suggestions?
I am having the same problem as you - did you end up putting it under the driver's seat?
Thanks, damian. I just adopted mike's Burmester Prima setup for this Audio 20 install (instead of Match M 5DSP). Since I would be using the same Burmester woofers as his, should not be a problem bridging I would think? Agreed I may have to play around with crossover frequencies to adapt to 4" mids.
Anyway, I'll let you know next week how the install goes then my tuning madness begins
Hi damianw, the install is finally done. No tuning has been done yet but loading Mike's tune file seems to be work in terms of the speaker layout which is:
Hi damianw, the install is finally done. No tuning has been done yet but loading Mike's tune file seems to be work in terms of the speaker layout which is:
Can you send some configs for me to load and try?
Thanks,
Kris
Hi Kris,
No problem. Just give me some time. Currently ending my holidays (yes, long one but family events). Traveling over the weekend back to my home. Will work on it on Monday when will be back to my home.
How is it now? Do you hear the difference?
Hi Kris,
No problem. Just give me some time. Currently ending my holidays (yes, long one but family events). Traveling over the weekend back to my home. Will work on it on Monday when will be back to my home.
How is it now? Do you hear the difference?
Oh yes, adding the mirror sail tweeters and footwell woofers made a huge difference, night and day. I even turned off the trunk sub for now.
Needs more tuning, obviously. Will wait for your files, no rush at all.
Oh yes, adding the mirror sail tweeters and footwell woofers made a huge difference, night and day. I even turned off the trunk sub for now.
Needs more tuning, obviously. Will wait for your files, no rush at all.
Thanks again.
Hi Kris,
big apologize for delay but after my holidays I had to visit 3 ships for service call and just came back home.
So I did something on your setting:
- Listening position - driver.
- No delays - for me sounds better than with delays.
- Generally I will operate on this sensitivity settings as this is good for my system:
Then here are the files - you will find screen prints of the setting.
Upload you can find on page 39 of user manual. But before you need to put Presets on AP8.9 to "0" and connect PC by USB cable.
1. Basic - 2 peaks at around 70Hz and 500Hz - don't worry it will be not that bad. Kris404_Basic.zip
2. Basic increased - all freqs. +3dB Basic increased.zip
3. Basic with bass boost activated Basic with bass boost.zip
4. Basic increased with bass boos activated - for me best for regular listen even if bass boost is not good but I could hear this nice with low volume Basic increased with bass boost.zip
If you will upload this to your system I suspect to go one by one with 2-3 days listening. Then maybe you will be able to find if is good or not.
Do not put full volume on beginning - can be loud but allow speakers to "used to" the setting - new speakers need to be listen with 60-70% volume for a while.
Of course setting with bass boost use with responsibility !
And advise for you sub amp:
Try setting and let me know what do you think. Hope you will find something good for you. If not then let me know. I promise to reply faster than this time
Hi Kris,
big apologize for delay but after my holidays I had to visit 3 ships for service call and just came back home.
So I did something on your setting:
- Listening position - driver.
- No delays - for me sounds better than with delays.
..
Thank you, damianw. Will play with these setting this weekend.
I'm terribly sorry to bring this from the grave but I just can 't find any useful info.
I have a 2016 w205 450 with audio 20, coming from a 2015 cla250 Wich had far better audio system. W205 is by far the worst stock audio system I've heard. Thanks MB!
So, I have huge issues getting a set of speakers to fit in the door panels and focals are extremely expensive. Space is so tight and any local audio shop has a speaker to fit in there so, to get better audio, I installed a couple tweeters and made big difference. My plan is to get a amp and a 10" sub in the trunk and just unplug stock sub. So, as stock speakers sound so bad with the factory HU's power, would they sound better with an amp? (Get rid of distortion?) I'm looking a a JBL club 4505 5ch amp to boost the stock 4 doors speakers (and my new tweeters) and use the 5th channel for a 10w0 JL sub. Keep in mind that swapping stock speakers is not an option for now so... The one million dollar question, would this amp improve my stock speakers sound quality using the hi pass crossover selection ? I'm not looking for a super hi end sound system. I just want better sound without distortion on stock speakers.
Sorry for the huge write up but I want to be precise with my info.
You might consider 1st upgrading to the Steg 4" for the doors.. or redo both doors/tweets with the Steg door/tweeter set... do a google search the 2-way plug-n-play set was about $200 last time I checked... regardless of what you plan to do the door speakers need to get upgraded - those stock 4" are not going to get any better with more amp.. if you install the Steg 2-way - then if you "go up" in amp that has active crossover you will need to go back in and chop out the passive on the door and tweet.
You might consider 1st upgrading to the Steg 4" for the doors.. or redo both doors/tweets with the Steg door/tweeter set... do a google search the 2-way plug-n-play set was about $200 last time I checked... regardless of what you plan to do the door speakers need to get upgraded - those stock 4" are not going to get any better with more amp.. if you install the Steg 2-way - then if you "go up" in amp that has active crossover you will need to go back in and chop out the passive on the door and tweet.
Thanks fabbrisd for your answer.
I searched for the steg speakers but they are 699€ and honestly, I don't want to spend that much on speakers and if I will I would go with the focals. https://www.maxxcount.de/steg-custom...c-e-glc-s.html
Where did you find them at 200usd? I would buy them right away
So if an amp with stock speakers would be useless, is there any reasonable price solution for speakers?
Regards.
Edit,
What about this steg?
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F35 2629806275
Jesus, you guys are rockstars. I've only had my c300 for about a month now but having come from a 2015 Mazda CX-5 all wheel drive with the electronics package I can say that I'm extremely disappointed in the stereo in a c300 Sport. I love the integration that I love the look and feel of it but it just locks that certain oomph. You guys have given me much to think about in terms of increasing the mid and low range. So thank you for all your hard work, and dedication to helping improve the stereo system of this model. I wish I had the mb Burmeister but I don't.
07-31-2018, 12:22 PM
