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Got the W205 Frontbass module today. As expected, there's an unimpressive paper coned 6" +\- woofer in there, that weighs next to nothing. I benched it and the Goldwood woofer in a little A/B test.
At lower power levels the OEM performs better, as designed. The Goldwood isn't really "awake" at those levels. Adding power to the point where the OEM starts breaking up, the Goldwood is right where it wants to be and starts pounding away.
Bottom line, if you're keeping the stock amp intact, I'd leave the footwell subs alone. They're well matched in terms of power handling and sound reasonably good. Better speakers will be power starved on the stock
Are there any DSP W/ Amps designed for 2-ohm speakers, so I don't have to replace all the speakers?
I measured the resistance of the speaker on the connections and got 2.1ohm but also got 6.5ohm on the speaker poles. I think it might be the capacitor integrated into the speaker that's causing the difference. But in the end I think the basic speakers are indeed 4ohm, just as the Burmester ones (same speakers as Mike discovered). The Match amp that I installed is rated for 4+ohm speakers and is working perfectly with the stock speakers in the back. No heating issues, stable and cool.
So I have been looking at the Match DSP and it is very hard to find the one vladarh purchased here in the states, but Crutchfield has a Match PP52DSP for 500 would that work with the anticipation of leaving the speakers stock and adding some silk dome tweeters (I have an A20)? If I add a Match DSP would I then be better served to add a 6.5" 3-way setup like in the other thread (VIRTUS603)? I found focal 6.5" 3-way setup for 500 on Amazon or is going with a 3-way setup more conducive to just getting a more powerful amp like in the other thread?
I think the Focal 3 Way and the Match DSP are a safe bet. If I hadn't already had the 2 way Focals I probably would have gone that way.
So just to be clear the Match PP52DSP is a good substitute for the OP Match 5DSP? It appears the specs match up as if the 5DSP is just an updated PP52 with a high power mode, but the mid power specs seem the same from a wattage standpoint.
I can't speak to the Match stuff as I have zero experience with it. Vlad's the W205 Match expert. It does seem the unit you found would work though. Let him weigh in.
I don't see a reason why the Match PP52DSP wouldn't work. The only reason I went for the other one was the size. I hid it under the glove box. You get the PP-ISO cable with the PP52DSP as well, nice touch. As for the 3 way speakers, that might be a good idea, but you'd have to mod the mid speaker to fit into the 4" space on the door (I believe it's smaller than 4"), and also, you can only use one of the 6.5" speakers as bass. You'd be left with one extra speaker.
I think the A20 can get really good cheaply enough to make the Burmester guys feel like the true victims. Especially since they have the same speakers. I need to dig into that Frontbass module. I have an outstanding 4 ohm 6 1/2" woofer by Goldwood (you've never heard of them) I want to see if I can get in there. They're $40 each and they hit like crazy.
If those won't fit I have a bunch of other options. I should have the module mid-week.
A20 guys would just need to grab a driver's side module off eBay to get dual Frontbass going. While I was looking for the module, there were a lot of vendors selling those nice Burmester grilles for cheap.
Bit late response but still..
How's your test with the goldwood woofer coming along?
And yeah, i've seen those burmester grilles a lot on ebay/ali/other sites, but actually for my car i like the black grilles more I've got black rooflining & black ash wood interior panels. Besides, it feels like the same thing as sticking an AMG badge on my hybrid
I don't see a reason why the Match PP52DSP wouldn't work. The only reason I went for the other one was the size. I hid it under the glove box. You get the PP-ISO cable with the PP52DSP as well, nice touch. As for the 3 way speakers, that might be a good idea, but you'd have to mod the mid speaker to fit into the 4" space on the door (I believe it's smaller than 4"), and also, you can only use one of the 6.5" speakers as bass. You'd be left with one extra speaker.
Thanks for the reply, I am torn as I went to an installer and he thinks a DSP is over kill unless I am an Audiophile (which I don't claim to be) and thinks just adding an AMP and good two way speaker setup would work.
I did get some cheap tweeters (alpine) and installed them, they were component, so not sure if that helped or hurt LOL, but I did what Mike suggested and just paralleled them to door speaker.
So the installer said it would be between 1500-2200 (I wanted to stay around a grand max). The 52DSP is only 500 and I don't necessarily have to upgrade speakers yet. My only confusion is on a 5-channel did you just use the 5th channel meant for a sub for the 6.5" in the footwell, and what if I get a second woofer for the driver footwell, would I just parallel them to the 5th channel? I can do the install myself as I have a strong electronic/electrical background, but setting up the 5th channel intimidates me a little, plus I have never attempted tuning a system, so that would be a learning curve.
Oh one more question regarding the head unit does it have RCA pre-outs? As in my research Amplifiers generally only accept RCA pre-amp as inputs (another great thing about the Helix/Match DSP's).
How's your test with the goldwood woofer coming along?
And yeah, i've seen those burmester grilles a lot on ebay/ali/other sites, but actually for my car i like the black grilles more I've got black rooflining & black ash wood interior panels. Besides, it feels like the same thing as sticking an AMG badge on my hybrid
Yeah I'm not a rebadge guy at all, but since even the Burmester system doesn't actually have any Burmester speakers I figured WTF.
Thanks for the reply, I am torn as I went to an installer and he thinks a DSP is over kill unless I am an Audiophile (which I don't claim to be) and thinks just adding an AMP and good two way speaker setup would work.
I did get some cheap tweeters (alpine) and installed them, they were component, so not sure if that helped or hurt LOL, but I did what Mike suggested and just paralleled them to door speaker.
So the installer said it would be between 1500-2200 (I wanted to stay around a grand max). The 52DSP is only 500 and I don't necessarily have to upgrade speakers yet. My only confusion is on a 5-channel did you just use the 5th channel meant for a sub for the 6.5" in the footwell, and what if I get a second woofer for the driver footwell, would I just parallel them to the 5th channel? I can do the install myself as I have a strong electronic/electrical background, but setting up the 5th channel intimidates me a little, plus I have never attempted tuning a system, so that would be a learning curve.
Oh one more question regarding the head unit does it have RCA pre-outs? As in my research Amplifiers generally only accept RCA pre-amp as inputs (another great thing about the Helix/Match DSP's).
First a yes and a no
Yes, I used the sub channel for the Frontbass 6.5" stock speaker (I'm not sure if connecting two subs to the 5th channel is possible - but if Mike manages to find a way to install a better speaker into it we won't need to have two, there's enough power in the amp for one good sub).
And no, the HU doesn't have any other output, so you have to use the speaker-outs.
I think a DSP amp is necessary for the W205 to neutralize the terrible embedded equalizer of the HU. If you get an ordinary amp you'd still be stuck with too much mid-tone and holes in the frequency range. If you get a P&P set (doesn't have to be Match, I'm not the one selling them ) you can do the whole upgrade for less than a grand.
I had my shop dissect a Frontbass module. They can get a Hertz Energy 6.5" woofer to fit inside the module with a little modification (they have to make an adapter ring and glue the speaker in place. The Hertz has a small enough basket and magnet and a shallow enough depth to fit inside the module.
Since there's clearly room for a bigger diameter speaker I'm having them check to see if the Focal 8" will also drop in.
First a yes and a no
Yes, I used the sub channel for the Frontbass 6.5" stock speaker (I'm not sure if connecting two subs to the 5th channel is possible - but if Mike manages to find a way to install a better speaker into it we won't need to have two, there's enough power in the amp for one good sub).
And no, the HU doesn't have any other output, so you have to use the speaker-outs.
I think a DSP amp is necessary for the W205 to neutralize the terrible embedded equalizer of the HU. If you get an ordinary amp you'd still be stuck with too much mid-tone and holes in the frequency range. If you get a P&P set (doesn't have to be Match, I'm not the one selling them ) you can do the whole upgrade for less than a grand.
Yeah I hear ya on the under a grand because I also found the focal component two-way (100KRS) at crutchfield outlet for 389 a pair, so everything needed in the cart pre-tax 929 (includes the 13A Helix Cable). I have been checking on it all day, just can't seem to pull the trigger!
Last thing is the Size as you noted compared to the 5 the 52 is almost twice as long and almost twice as wide and with only a 7 foot link cable doubt it would make it back to the trunk. where did you hide yours? Do you think something about 3 inches longer and wider would still be able to be hidden there?
Screw it, I removed the focal speakers (they were scratch n dent anyway) from the cart and ordered the 52DSP as it looks like the best P&P DSP/Amp for the W205 C300 (taking price into consideration). Hopefully I will be able to find a place to hide it. I figure I will try with the stock speakers and cheap Alpine tweeters and see how it goes. I will hold off on speaker package and see if Mike can find us a suitable sub to replace the Frontbass.
It supposed to arrive Friday, so looks like I will have a project this weekend Now how to break it to my wife ;(
I have the KRS up front and the stock door speakers in the back, all on the Prima. I can "solo" the rears or fronts during config which is useful for voice matching, and there wasn't much difference between the Focals and stock toggling back and forth between them.
Tell your wife you think a rodent got up into the dash and maybe chewed some wires. Vlad did a great DIY write up on the Match DSP. Link is in my sig...
I have been checking on it all day, just can't seem to pull the trigger!
Last thing is the Size as you noted compared to the 5 the 52 is almost twice as long and almost twice as wide and with only a 7 foot link cable doubt it would make it back to the trunk. where did you hide yours? Do you think something about 3 inches longer and wider would still be able to be hidden there?
I hid mine under the glove compartment. I have a 5m cable, but didn't want to take the whole inside apart to run it to the back. The cable is tied to the black plastic above the passenger footwell using cable ties. And the amp is attached using the double sided tape that came with it. You don't see them while seated. I guess it would be possible to put the bigger amp there as well. If not, I guess you have enough cable to put it somewhere under the passenger seat. You would just need a longer sub cable as well.
I hid mine under the glove compartment. I have a 5m cable, but didn't want to take the whole inside apart to run it to the back. The cable is tied to the black plastic above the passenger footwell using cable ties. And the amp is attached using the double sided tape that came with it. You don't see them while seated. I guess it would be possible to put the bigger amp there as well. If not, I guess you have enough cable to put it somewhere under the passenger seat. You would just need a longer sub cable as well.
Well after ordering I got the user manual for your 5DSP and my 52DSP and looks like I have some figuring to do regarding the subwoofer as i noted the 5DSP only has a two pin molex connector with cable in package, the 52DSP has an 8 pin molex connector and doesn't come with a subwoofer cable (apparently it is designed to P&P with only Helix Subwoofers and the subwoofer has the cable). So I am scrambling to try and find the pin outs of the subwoofer connection on the 52DSP, I will then try to find a molex connector and make up my own molex plug to work for me. Should have done more research, I was focusing on the specs between the two DSP's
Well doing some internet research doesn't look good for the 52DSP to be an option if not using one of their subwoofers, I found the below in a VW forum:
VW Forum Discussing Radio Upgrades
I have also contacted Helix requesting pinout but the above pretty much says it all, not sure what to do, as I definitely don't want their subwoofer since they only fit in the trunk (boot).
It would be very strange if Match forced you to use only their subs. In the box I got a cable with a 2pin connector on one side (to the amp) and an 8pin on the other (to the sub). But the 8pin is removable so you can connect whatever you want. You can see the picture of the cable in my DIY guide that Mike uploaded.
It would be very strange if Match forced you to use only their subs. In the box I got a cable with a 2pin connector on one side (to the amp) and an 8pin on the other (to the sub). But the 8pin is removable so you can connect whatever you want. You can see the picture of the cable in my DIY guide that Mike uploaded.
Yeah it looks like they might have made the 5DSP in response to people wanting to use their own subs. I received a reply from Audiotec-Fischer and it was similar to the VW post. Basically states the MATCH P&P are designed for their subwoofers and using a 3rd party sub would not produce enough power as it is not a single channel x 90/160, but a 4 channel x20/40W, so only hooking up one channel would produce only 20/40W to the sub and it is not bridgeable. See Below from Audiotex-Fischer.
Good news is I was able to cancel my order, so back to the drawing board.
@mike5215 and @vladarh, you guys are doing awesome work!! Very happy to see you guys getting onwards with the audio20 project and am still following. Can't wait to get some decent speakers, sub and DSP in my car :P
Hi,
I want to replace all the 4 door panel speaker to coaxial.
Which model should I get to fit the tight space especially the back door. Price to be value for money.
Going for coaxial because the back door don't have tweeter space.
Thank you.
I don't want to discourage you but the coaxials won't make that much difference (you probably won't hear it).
It is a good first step if you're planning an amp later, though.
That said, I can't really give any advice which ones to use as I haven't tried any. The main limiting factor is the depth, try to find something with less than 40mm mounting depth.
I removed the carpet on the passenger side to take a look at the woofer. Here are a couple of photos I took. You can also see where I put the Match amp and the cables.
The amp on the top left and the sub behind the cover plate
07-07-2016, 03:52 PM
I've got black rooflining & black ash wood interior panels. Besides, it feels like the same thing as sticking an AMG badge on my hybrid 
