How Close is the M133 (CLA45) to the M174 Engine
03-02-2017, 03:04 PM
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
How Close is the M133 (CLA45) to the M174 Engine
Hello All,
Has anyone explored the differences between the M133 (CLA45) and the M174 engine used on the C300. Both have the same displacement and do have different mounting methods. Are the internals shared? Please let me know your thoughts on this.
Greg
Has anyone explored the differences between the M133 (CLA45) and the M174 engine used on the C300. Both have the same displacement and do have different mounting methods. Are the internals shared? Please let me know your thoughts on this.
Greg
03-02-2017, 03:34 PM
#2
Super Member
NOTHING alike except them being 2.0 4 cylinders .
no internals are shared.
AMG is sandcasted block with forged rods forged pistons and put together by one man one engine.
no internals are shared.
AMG is sandcasted block with forged rods forged pistons and put together by one man one engine.
Last edited by tekfoc; 03-02-2017 at 03:38 PM.
03-02-2017, 05:15 PM
#3
Super Member
The alloy composition of both the block and head are also varied (with the block using AlSi7Mg, and the head using AlSi10MgZr where the Zircon is added to increase the capacity of the metal to conduct heat). M133 uses forged steel cams instead of hollow-cast shafts in the M270.
There's a bit of info comparing the two engine families on the web if you go searching, although most of the published details are in German.
05-10-2020, 08:40 AM
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a45, e63
I think you meant the M270/274 (with the 274 series being longitudinal and 270 being transverse mounted)- both engines share the same block geometry; i.e. the M133 was based on the M270 series block, sharing the same basic engine series construction measurements (like the 83mm bore, 92mm stroke 90mm cylinder distribution), but AFAIK that's about where the similarities end. The blocks were stated as not being interchangeable between the two engine families due to the many small varied differences. As already mentioned above, casting is also different, using a using a side-flow casting method (which is also tumbled during the casting process) vs a pressure casting.
The alloy composition of both the block and head are also varied (with the block using AlSi7Mg, and the head using AlSi10MgZr where the Zircon is added to increase the capacity of the metal to conduct heat). M133 uses forged steel cams instead of hollow-cast shafts in the M270.
There's a bit of info comparing the two engine families on the web if you go searching, although most of the published details are in German.
The alloy composition of both the block and head are also varied (with the block using AlSi7Mg, and the head using AlSi10MgZr where the Zircon is added to increase the capacity of the metal to conduct heat). M133 uses forged steel cams instead of hollow-cast shafts in the M270.
There's a bit of info comparing the two engine families on the web if you go searching, although most of the published details are in German.
04-24-2022, 05:04 AM
#5
as for cylinders just get molybdenum alloy sleeves which have more lubricity than the coated cylinders in an m133 block. I know several people that use the same sleeves to rebuild m133’s since Mercedes Decided they wanted you to buy a new amg engine rather than rebuild it when they did that cylinder coating which beyond all the press releases isn’t cheaper to manufacture.
the rods and piston overall dimensions are the same only the amg uses forged and the m270/274 used cast. There is a tenth of a mm difference in rod length that is nullified by piston height so they end up being the same. Stroke is barely different due to this.
pistons are same as above though depending on the year the m274 uses higher compression and lower boost.
cams are interchangeable though it is possible you may have to linebore the head/valve cover since they are bored to match and there are no cam bearings.
heads are different but you can use the larger valves in the m274 from the m133. The zirconium coating is unnecessary. But you can always get your head coated or just replace the valve seats with something better and replaceable down the road.
oiling sYstem is different but if you milled a new front cover for the m133 head to go on an m274 block and milled the block for the side oil ports you could do it. I plan to attempt this at a later date since I have an industrial cnc mill (brother speedo s500x1. And a haas Vf1) there are some other holes that need to be put into the block to move the oil return to the other side of the block as well but those holes are only plugged with .125inch of aluminum and the tube is there below it if you mill it.
head gasket can be used from m133 once using the m133 head. but only if you do the above.
cam sensors are Same part
injectors different. Manifolds different, ecm different but I use a motec so it doesn’t matter.
oh and yes I’ve ported my head and have an m133 block for sale that will come with the main carriers unlike all the useless paperweights you see being sold without on eBay since like the head and the valve cover are line bored to match.
The key thing here to point out is unless you own a machine shop though (I do though my shop strictly does boat engines). You likely won’t be able to justify spending the money since it’s not cheap and let’s be real the people buying a c class or one of the infinities that used the m274 aren’t the type of people willing to drop the money to do a Frankenstein build like this and why would they. They would be better off swapping a c63 engine from a salvage car than doing this. I only was willing and able to do this because some punk in his Honda decided to use my wife’s cla45 as his brakes when he hit her doing 75mph and I got a brand new m274 from a parts guy at mb I know for 1 k because some studs got bent in shipping and the shipping company had no luck auctioning it off and asked him if he knew anyone that would want it for cheap. Oh and I own a machine shop which is a key factor here.
as to the other comment on how the blocks were casted that’s because m270/274 use sleeves so don’t need the strength that a sleeveless m133 needs
as for the comments about amg engines being built by one person start to finish that has absolutely nothing to do with what can be done in an aftermarket setting. AMG engine builders are still only using parts off the line and aren’t blueprinting the motors or anything. They do a great job and of course there is accountability that you don’t get with the normal engines because it’s one person but that’s it.
if you are wondering why I went through the trouble to do this it’s because I wanted to put this imagine in a Japanese vintage red I car because this particular car company bought Mercedes engines back in the 60’s and used them in this car. So my modern restomod demanded it. As to what car it is and any pics or vids of the car they will be coming when I make the cars debut if I can every get the time to finish the body and hopefully get it to sema.. until then the rest is a mystery.
oh and yeah I can care less about using proper grammar and caps at the beginning of my run on sentences. It’s my night with the baby so I’m tired as hell.
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04-24-2022, 09:50 AM
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04-25-2022, 02:13 AM
#8
Senior Member
yeah I hate to burst all of the replies bubbles but I have an m274 that I took the internals from an m133 and swapped them in. The cranks are the same part number between the m133 and the m270/274 for years 2014-2018
as for cylinders just get molybdenum alloy sleeves which have more lubricity than the coated cylinders in an m133 block. I know several people that use the same sleeves to rebuild m133’s since Mercedes Decided they wanted you to buy a new amg engine rather than rebuild it when they did that cylinder coating which beyond all the press releases isn’t cheaper to manufacture.
the rods and piston overall dimensions are the same only the amg uses forged and the m270/274 used cast. There is a tenth of a mm difference in rod length that is nullified by piston height so they end up being the same. Stroke is barely different due to this.
pistons are same as above though depending on the year the m274 uses higher compression and lower boost.
cams are interchangeable though it is possible you may have to linebore the head/valve cover since they are bored to match and there are no cam bearings.
heads are different but you can use the larger valves in the m274 from the m133. The zirconium coating is unnecessary. But you can always get your head coated or just replace the valve seats with something better and replaceable down the road.
oiling sYstem is different but if you milled a new front cover for the m133 head to go on an m274 block and milled the block for the side oil ports you could do it. I plan to attempt this at a later date since I have an industrial cnc mill (brother speedo s500x1. And a haas Vf1) there are some other holes that need to be put into the block to move the oil return to the other side of the block as well but those holes are only plugged with .125inch of aluminum and the tube is there below it if you mill it.
head gasket can be used from m133 once using the m133 head. but only if you do the above.
cam sensors are Same part
injectors different. Manifolds different, ecm different but I use a motec so it doesn’t matter.
oh and yes I’ve ported my head and have an m133 block for sale that will come with the main carriers unlike all the useless paperweights you see being sold without on eBay since like the head and the valve cover are line bored to match.
The key thing here to point out is unless you own a machine shop though (I do though my shop strictly does boat engines). You likely won’t be able to justify spending the money since it’s not cheap and let’s be real the people buying a c class or one of the infinities that used the m274 aren’t the type of people willing to drop the money to do a Frankenstein build like this and why would they. They would be better off swapping a c63 engine from a salvage car than doing this. I only was willing and able to do this because some punk in his Honda decided to use my wife’s cla45 as his brakes when he hit her doing 75mph and I got a brand new m274 from a parts guy at mb I know for 1 k because some studs got bent in shipping and the shipping company had no luck auctioning it off and asked him if he knew anyone that would want it for cheap. Oh and I own a machine shop which is a key factor here.
as to the other comment on how the blocks were casted that’s because m270/274 use sleeves so don’t need the strength that a sleeveless m133 needs
as for the comments about amg engines being built by one person start to finish that has absolutely nothing to do with what can be done in an aftermarket setting. AMG engine builders are still only using parts off the line and aren’t blueprinting the motors or anything. They do a great job and of course there is accountability that you don’t get with the normal engines because it’s one person but that’s it.
if you are wondering why I went through the trouble to do this it’s because I wanted to put this imagine in a Japanese vintage red I car because this particular car company bought Mercedes engines back in the 60’s and used them in this car. So my modern restomod demanded it. As to what car it is and any pics or vids of the car they will be coming when I make the cars debut if I can every get the time to finish the body and hopefully get it to sema.. until then the rest is a mystery.
oh and yeah I can care less about using proper grammar and caps at the beginning of my run on sentences. It’s my night with the baby so I’m tired as hell.
as for cylinders just get molybdenum alloy sleeves which have more lubricity than the coated cylinders in an m133 block. I know several people that use the same sleeves to rebuild m133’s since Mercedes Decided they wanted you to buy a new amg engine rather than rebuild it when they did that cylinder coating which beyond all the press releases isn’t cheaper to manufacture.
the rods and piston overall dimensions are the same only the amg uses forged and the m270/274 used cast. There is a tenth of a mm difference in rod length that is nullified by piston height so they end up being the same. Stroke is barely different due to this.
pistons are same as above though depending on the year the m274 uses higher compression and lower boost.
cams are interchangeable though it is possible you may have to linebore the head/valve cover since they are bored to match and there are no cam bearings.
heads are different but you can use the larger valves in the m274 from the m133. The zirconium coating is unnecessary. But you can always get your head coated or just replace the valve seats with something better and replaceable down the road.
oiling sYstem is different but if you milled a new front cover for the m133 head to go on an m274 block and milled the block for the side oil ports you could do it. I plan to attempt this at a later date since I have an industrial cnc mill (brother speedo s500x1. And a haas Vf1) there are some other holes that need to be put into the block to move the oil return to the other side of the block as well but those holes are only plugged with .125inch of aluminum and the tube is there below it if you mill it.
head gasket can be used from m133 once using the m133 head. but only if you do the above.
cam sensors are Same part
injectors different. Manifolds different, ecm different but I use a motec so it doesn’t matter.
oh and yes I’ve ported my head and have an m133 block for sale that will come with the main carriers unlike all the useless paperweights you see being sold without on eBay since like the head and the valve cover are line bored to match.
The key thing here to point out is unless you own a machine shop though (I do though my shop strictly does boat engines). You likely won’t be able to justify spending the money since it’s not cheap and let’s be real the people buying a c class or one of the infinities that used the m274 aren’t the type of people willing to drop the money to do a Frankenstein build like this and why would they. They would be better off swapping a c63 engine from a salvage car than doing this. I only was willing and able to do this because some punk in his Honda decided to use my wife’s cla45 as his brakes when he hit her doing 75mph and I got a brand new m274 from a parts guy at mb I know for 1 k because some studs got bent in shipping and the shipping company had no luck auctioning it off and asked him if he knew anyone that would want it for cheap. Oh and I own a machine shop which is a key factor here.
as to the other comment on how the blocks were casted that’s because m270/274 use sleeves so don’t need the strength that a sleeveless m133 needs
as for the comments about amg engines being built by one person start to finish that has absolutely nothing to do with what can be done in an aftermarket setting. AMG engine builders are still only using parts off the line and aren’t blueprinting the motors or anything. They do a great job and of course there is accountability that you don’t get with the normal engines because it’s one person but that’s it.
if you are wondering why I went through the trouble to do this it’s because I wanted to put this imagine in a Japanese vintage red I car because this particular car company bought Mercedes engines back in the 60’s and used them in this car. So my modern restomod demanded it. As to what car it is and any pics or vids of the car they will be coming when I make the cars debut if I can every get the time to finish the body and hopefully get it to sema.. until then the rest is a mystery.
oh and yeah I can care less about using proper grammar and caps at the beginning of my run on sentences. It’s my night with the baby so I’m tired as hell.
the injectors should be the same part number the last i checked, they were the same throughout most of the newer merc engines (M133 M176 M177 M270 M274 M276 M278)
We have forged a few M274 engines on the W205, and now looking to switch up the 1.6 heads with camtronic to the 2L heads without (just with coding).
very interested to see how your build goes and mating to the jap vintage!
