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My first Benz (aside from an 89 190E that snuck in there) was an 06 S500. The W220 was available with a "Sport Appearance Package". It got you the exact same front fascia, side skirts and rear bumper that the S63 AMG and S65 AMG got, and a set of staggered 18" split five spoke wheels that resembled the very expensive two piece split 5's on the AMG cars.
Otherwise...inside and mechanically they were still the exact same placid, cushy riding cars but they looked nice with the sport stuff. There was not an AMG badge in sight. It seemed like a fair trade off, to get some cool AMG cosmetic parts, but since the cars themselves had zero AMG DNA nobody expected the badging. (Okay...the rims had a tiny AMG logo stamped into a spoke, but you had to squint to see it.)
Now, AMG is having an identity crisis. The brand causes young buyers to salivate but young buyers aren't buying $100,000 AMG cars. MB diluted the brand starting with the AMG CLA 45, and even the C450 is a stretch. Never in a million years would the "real" AMG dirty their hands tuning a nondescript mass produced six cylinder.
But, there it is. Still, I think when it's time to draw the line between what is and isn't an AMG, leave it up to Mercedes. If they stick a badge on, great. If you want a car with an AMG badge, buy one.
Amen, brother; well said. That's kind of what I keep trying to tell the knuckleheads from my (I know, call me crazy...or even stupid) used to have a C63 perspective. Five years driving that serial killer gave me a clear understanding of what is and what isn't.
Much as I love my value-packed and seriously upgraded C450 with the little-bitty, have to squint alot to see them, black Baby AMG badges (on a black 450)...........hate to tell 'em: Not an AMG.
Junior Varsity AMG maybe, perhaps even AMG-lite, but most appropriately and simply a Sport.....remember the little SPORT badges on the front fenders of the W203 C350s? One like that, but a normal badge size, on the right side of the trunk lid integrated with a (squint-sized) "Tuned by AMG" or something like that underneath.
A clear indicator of it's substantial tuning, but not suggesting - as you stated perfectly, Mike - that a tuned, garden-variety 3.0 litre six from the MB assembly line = AMG. Chile, please. One Man, One Engine, Witches. Minimum qualification to apply for the AMG badge. Don't have one? Don't even fill out the application.
But naming issues aside, the 450 ain't no slouch. I know. I feel it. Every day, homies! Not very far from the old naturally aspirated 63, or reasonably close, shall I say..........but no cigar. Oh, hell no.
V8 power for sure; begins to pulls really hard in mid-range - actually just before - and you learn how to stay in that power band by keeping RPMs well into the 2000s. Gets up to go-to-jail speed extremely quickly. And if you'd never driving the original C63 it would feel insanely quick and fast. I equate it with my 2006 G35, had I did the Stillen and/or Vortech Supercharger. (They have since collaborated on the upgrade.)
But no, not nearly as flat-out brutal as a legitimate AMG. I mean isn't that the point? Knowing from the first exhaust sound alone, you could die each time you crank up your car from Affalterbach? (VROOM! Hmm; is my will up-to-date? Hope so; I'm about to push this one man, one engine Franken-Benz.).
So, 450s and 43s are still about 2-3 steps from the Looney Bin and the ditch you'll end up in if you pushed the 63 too far, God forbid with your old lady in passenger seat. Yes, it has 4matic grip, but even without it, probably not so frightening nor unstable. Think BMW 340i M-Sport, which would never break loose like an M3 at the limit. Same principle.
So no matter what level badge-a-holic you are, badge as you wish. If MB Management is OK with fakin' moves themselves by throwing out these phoney-baloney, Glorified Poser AMG-43s across the model lineup (that's right, I said it, people), who am I to find beef with C250 AMG on the Florida Turnpike?
MB has been twisting itself into knots trying to figure out how to more widely monetize the AMG brand without prostituting it. No luck so far. The C450 was supposed to be the first in an offering of "AMG Line" cars. They would be sold at dealerships as a brand-within-a-brand, using some "AMG" performance parts. That idea died almost as quickly as the C450s started coming off the production line. Now it's just Mercedes declaring a car to be AMG and that's the end of it. I think it actually will be the end of it, because a generation from now the name will be largely meaningless. You'll only be able to tell the difference by price. If it costs 20% more than the base car it's a sorta AMG. If it costs double, it's an actual one.
"Actual" implies there is such a thing in the abstract, yet it is Mercedes' right to denominate a model as it deems fit. To say anything else implies deceptive or unfair trade practices. Whether a model meets some vague, indefinite and subjective standard just begs the question.
Mercedes has the right to, and does describe its models in a certain way. The described models are "real" as specified. You disagree with it. My money is on Mercedes.
All product manufacturers expressly reserve or have the legal right to lawfully fix or CHANGE their product specifications.
Whether this strategy will survive the test of the marketplace remains to be seen.
Last edited by removedCFGaccount; 03-25-2017 at 01:15 PM.
Neither the use of Socratic irony nor importation of an implied, false premise change objective reality: the products are what Mercedes specifies them to be. Either they meet generalized, subjective consumer expectations or they don't. Mercedes is not the first, and won't be the last to acquire the goodwill and reputation of another, and then trade on it in some manner with regard to new or existing products. The medical device field is littered with them.
Years ago, I bought a little McIntosh preamp, the C15, released just after the company was sold to a cheap Japanese manufacturer. The preamp was savaged by the critics of the time as a pretender wearing only the McIntosh name, and I got it for $300. Today, it sells used for $1500 or so, and is a cult classic "Mcintosh."
The Japanese manufacturer continued making all sorts of cheap crap under its own name, maybe even lawn mowers, and McIntosh survived as a trademark and prospered. McIntosh's trademark or other assets were ultimately sold to another and so it goes....
As to whether Mercedes rightfully or lawfully uses "stickers" and the implied claim they don't, I will leave to others. I see nothing deceptive or unfair about it.
Last edited by removedCFGaccount; 03-25-2017 at 01:57 PM.
Just drive and enjoy your car... Do a few mods if you want. But enjoy your car... There are 1,000 posts on if you should or shouldn't put an AMG badge on XYZ car model. If it didn't come with it and you got to ask. The answer is probably going to be no. Rock the car in it's true form "C400" on the back or debadge it. But if it gives you some sort of extra confidents with a badge in it then go for it. It's your car... But a Benz guy or a car enthusiast will always know what the deal is. Drop mic.
I never said MB wasn't within its rights to call whatever they make whatever they'd like. I said in broadening their definition of what AMG represents they ****ed up the allure of the brand for life. Just my take. Your mileage may vary.
Well, time will tell, as with my little McIntosh C15.
Market predictions based purely on vague, ambiguous or supposedly generalized emotions imputed to many tend to be quickly forgotten.
Obviously, my mileage does vary, based on my experience in many fields.
Addendum: please provide a link to a Mercedes' published definition which "broadens" anything it sells, of any specification.
Simply imputing this to Mercedes, perhaps wrongfully, doesn't make it so.
It never ceases to amaze me how far folks will go to disparage a manufacturer or its products on a purely arbitrary basis, but then opinions, groundless or otherwise, are like....
Last edited by removedCFGaccount; 03-25-2017 at 02:19 PM.
MB has been twisting itself into knots trying to figure out how to more widely monetize the AMG brand without prostituting it. No luck so far. The C450 was supposed to be the first in an offering of "AMG Line" cars. They would be sold at dealerships as a brand-within-a-brand, using some "AMG" performance parts. That idea died almost as quickly as the C450s started coming off the production line. Now it's just Mercedes declaring a car to be AMG and that's the end of it. I think it actually will be the end of it, because a generation from now the name will be largely meaningless. You'll only be able to tell the difference by price. If it costs 20% more than the base car it's a sorta AMG. If it costs double, it's an actual one.
Originally Posted by CFG
"Actual" implies there is such a thing in the abstract, yet it is Mercedes' right to denominate a model as it deems fit. To say anything else implies deceptive or unfair trade practices. Whether a model meets some vague, indefinite and subjective standard just begs the question.
Mercedes has the right to, and does describe its models in a certain way. The described models are "real" as specified. You disagree with it. My money is on Mercedes.
All product manufacturers expressly reserve or have the legal right to lawfully fix or CHANGE their product specifications.
Whether this strategy will survive the test of the marketplace remains to be seen.
Agree or disagree, love it or hate it, good and valid points made.
It's all about the cash, and as a hard-core free market capitalist, I say MB should do what makes them rich as bloody rich as humanly possible. Contrary to crap our liberal weenies like to spread as gospel truth - it's a flat out lie - it is NOT a zero sum game. The pie actually does continually grow under the right (free) market conditions. Just 'cause one person works their tail off & earns more, it does not mean they took it from poor soul who has less, you Mr. or Mrs. Emotion-thinking liberal idiot. (To be clear, speaking to no one in particular.....and certainly not the two members quote above. You Hillary voters know who you are; one more cheap shot to come later. Damn, she sure screwed that campaign up; got taken to the woodshed. Ahhhh-hah-hah. I'm still laughing.)
As long as it's a - write this down, left wing tax & spend libs - "peaceable exchange of goods and/or services, at an agreed upon price, without the use of force or coercion".........it's all good. It's what makes America great, no offense to any Trump-hater readers. (I'm lying. Please be offended. Then move to that lesser country that you love. Ciao, mother.......nevermind.) But I digress.
However, the marketplace will truly decide and MB may make Ze Germans great bundles of cash. But that is a whole nother discussion, as the monetary profits will NEVER equate to 450s/43s are "real" AMG cars.
For instance, I once poured Aunt Jemima syrup all over a pile of poop in my garage. Never made it pancakes; still tasted like dog doodoo. Another time, sprayed perfume all over pile of trash. Still stunk to high heaven.
On the other hand, MB is pimping me and simultaneously saying "You aint no stank ho; you high class.". No. As a 450 (owner) all I am is a low rent, for 20% more than the base prostitute, 20 dollar stank ho. I do what I do well. I have my clientele', my loyal customers. So I be making my pimp money, albeit on the low-medium end of the scale.
But a high-class, one ($1,000) stack per hour call girl I am not. Them ho's make our pimp 5 times more than my cheap $20 *** does. (Figuratively speaking, people! It's hooker math multiplication; just a little different.)
Now I'm going the Niketown Outlet Store in the The Shops at Sunset Place. Get me some Jordan 11s. See you later, all you Capitalists and Liberal American Communists.
Well, time will tell, as with my little McIntosh C15.
Market predictions based purely on vague, ambiguous or supposedly generalized emotions imputed to many tend to be quickly forgotten.
Obviously, my mileage does vary, based on my experience in many fields.
Addendum: please provide a link to a Mercedes' published definition which "broadens" anything it sells, of any specification.
Simply imputing this to Mercedes, perhaps wrongfully, doesn't make it so.
It never ceases to amaze me how far folks will go to disparage a manufacturer or its products on a purely arbitrary basis, but then opinions, groundless or otherwise, are like....
...are like endless, vague, ambiguous, or supposedly emotionally-based complaints that a certain engine is "wheezing crap" without further support or a published definition? Is that what purely arbitrary, groundless claims that disparage a manufacturer are like? Good to know, because there's this one fella on my forum...
Agree or disagree, love it or hate it, good and valid points made.
It's all about the cash, and as a hard-core free market capitalist, I say MB should do what makes them rich as bloody rich as humanly possible. Contrary to crap our liberal weenies like to spread as gospel truth - it's a flat out lie - it is NOT a zero sum game. The pie actually does continually grow under the right (free) market conditions. Just 'cause one person works their tail off & earns more, it does not mean they took it from poor soul who has less, you Mr. or Mrs. Emotion-thinking liberal idiot. (To be clear, speaking to no one in particular.....and certainly not the two members quote above. You Hillary voters know who you are; one more cheap shot to come later. Damn, she sure screwed that campaign up; got taken to the woodshed. Ahhhh-hah-hah. I'm still laughing.)
As long as it's a - write this down, left wing tax & spend libs - "peaceable exchange of goods and/or services, at an agreed upon price, without the use of force or coercion".........it's all good. It's what makes America great, no offense to any Trump-hater readers. (I'm lying. Please be offended. Then move to that lesser country that you love. Ciao, mother.......nevermind.) But I digress.
However, the marketplace will truly decide and MB may make Ze Germans great bundles of cash. But that is a whole nother discussion, as the monetary profits will NEVER equate to 450s/43s are "real" AMG cars.
For instance, I once poured Aunt Jemima syrup all over a pile of poop in my garage. Never made it pancakes; still tasted like dog doodoo. Another time, sprayed perfume all over pile of trash. Still stunk to high heaven.
On the other hand, MB is pimping me and simultaneously saying "You aint no stank ho; you high class.". No. As a 450 (owner) all I am is a low rent, for 20% more than the base prostitute, 20 dollar stank ho. I do what I do well. I have my clientele', my loyal customers. So I be making my pimp money, albeit on the low-medium end of the scale.
But a high-class, one ($1,000) stack per hour call girl I am not. Them ho's make our pimp 5 times more than my cheap $20 *** does. (Figuratively speaking, people! It's hooker math multiplication; just a little different.)
Now I'm going the Niketown Outlet Store in the The Shops at Sunset Place. Get me some Jordan 11s. See you later, all you Capitalists and Liberal American Communists.
Yes! I have no idea what you just said but that's either exactly what I meant or bears no relationship whatsoever to what I meant. Let's just all agree it's perfectly okay to start drinking as soon as we wake up on Sunday mornings.
Seriously though, if your point is that MB was well within its rights to unshackle itself from the whole "one man, one engine" constraints and build cheaper AMG cars to make more money, I totally agree with you. More money is good. Satisfying a market need is good. The C450/43 is good.
Having a goose that lays golden eggs is also good.
...are like endless, vague, ambiguous, or supposedly emotionally-based complaints that a certain engine is "wheezing crap" without further support or a published definition? Is that what purely arbitrary, groundless claims that disparage a manufacturer are like? Good to know, because there's this one fella on my forum...
If you like a wheezing piece of crap, that's your business.
The commentators and authoritative sources pretty much agree.
It's kinda like pissing through a straw in my view: while it can be done, it is largely a hopeless thing. Overall, I reckon it is an unpleasant enterprise, doomed to disappoint.
And, I'm still waiting on a link showing Mercedes has published anything "broadening" its "definition" of AMG or anything else, notwithstanding any ad hominem directed at me, a non-employee.... apples to apples as it were, free from misleading diversions.
You know, the rules of logical fallacy spank people who first wrongly impute
A motive or belief to someone, like Mercedes' board members, and then wrongly attack them for the very belief wrongfully imputed to them.
Nor is there any rational analogy between impliedly claimed deceptive or unfair trade practices and the traits of a mechanical device: the former are states of mind and the latter, like a wheezing piece of crap, easily experienced or objectively measured. In any event, the two propositions, logically and rationally, are wholly separate and distinct, and ought be addressed as such.
Last edited by removedCFGaccount; 03-25-2017 at 04:29 PM.
Agree or disagree, love it or hate it, good and valid points made.
It's all about the cash, and as a hard-core free market capitalist, I say MB should do what makes them rich as bloody rich as humanly possible. Contrary to crap our liberal weenies like to spread as gospel truth - it's a flat out lie - it is NOT a zero sum game. The pie actually does continually grow under the right (free) market conditions. Just 'cause one person works their tail off & earns more, it does not mean they took it from poor soul who has less, you Mr. or Mrs. Emotion-thinking liberal idiot. (To be clear, speaking to no one in particular.....and certainly not the two members quote above. You Hillary voters know who you are; one more cheap shot to come later. Damn, she sure screwed that campaign up; got taken to the woodshed. Ahhhh-hah-hah. I'm still laughing.)
As long as it's a - write this down, left wing tax & spend libs - "peaceable exchange of goods and/or services, at an agreed upon price, without the use of force or coercion".........it's all good. It's what makes America great, no offense to any Trump-hater readers. (I'm lying. Please be offended. Then move to that lesser country that you love. Ciao, mother.......nevermind.) But I digress.
However, the marketplace will truly decide and MB may make Ze Germans great bundles of cash. But that is a whole nother discussion, as the monetary profits will NEVER equate to 450s/43s are "real" AMG cars.
For instance, I once poured Aunt Jemima syrup all over a pile of poop in my garage. Never made it pancakes; still tasted like dog doodoo. Another time, sprayed perfume all over pile of trash. Still stunk to high heaven.
On the other hand, MB is pimping me and simultaneously saying "You aint no stank ho; you high class.". No. As a 450 (owner) all I am is a low rent, for 20% more than the base prostitute, 20 dollar stank ho. I do what I do well. I have my clientele', my loyal customers. So I be making my pimp money, albeit on the low-medium end of the scale.
But a high-class, one ($1,000) stack per hour call girl I am not. Them ho's make our pimp 5 times more than my cheap $20 *** does. (Figuratively speaking, people! It's hooker math multiplication; just a little different.)
Now I'm going the Niketown Outlet Store in the The Shops at Sunset Place. Get me some Jordan 11s. See you later, all you Capitalists and Liberal American Communists.
I'm quite undecided: should I, as did Shakespeare, reckon it is much sound and fury signifying nothing, or ask, as did Bentham, surely in this great dungheap...there is a kernel?
Last edited by removedCFGaccount; 03-25-2017 at 03:59 PM.
The AMG name has been watered down, IMHO. ... In fact, our 2017 C300 Coupe has the Sport Package came with "AMG body styling" ...
" 'They'll never guess that it's not a real AMG,' said Tom Swift, boy racer." Do you really want to tell the world that you lust after an AMG, but you can't afford one? Better to buy a real AMG (even a used one) and de-badge it. (That's the "Q-ship" strategy of road domination!)
The AMG name has been watered down, IMHO. It used to reflect certain high end models of Mercedes Benz cars, but now it's just the performance arm of Mercedes. AMG logo is all over the place on all models of their cars (from entry level to AMG specific models). In fact, our 2017 C300 Coupe has the Sport Package came with "AMG body styling" and 19" AMG wheels that are stamped with "AMG" on them.
19" AMG wheels
In fact, in the UK and Singapore, there's a "C300 AMG Line" model (here in the US, I think its just called the Sports Package)
So is putting an AMG badge on the back a poser move? No, not anymore since AMG pretty much stamps their name on everything already anyway.
Would I do it on my car? No way.
Well, what about putting a c63 bumper on? Is that posing?
I just checked, all 4 floor mats say AMG, I think my math was off. 5hp a piece, so should be closer to 20hp...but may take your advise and pay the money for the floor mat retune!!
Originally Posted by Jben63
You only got 10HP on your floor mats? Dude you got to get a retune after the mat install it will give you 15-20hp guaranteed.
03-25-2017, 10:25 AM
Throw 'em a thumbs-up and keep moving.
) But I digress.
The Real Thing
