cjaredscott

Hi All,

I have a 2015 W205 C300 4MATIC. I'm considering buying it off lease and certifying the car with a 3 year, unlimited mile warranty.

What do we think the reliability of this car is going to be like? I feel like most issues with the car have come and gone already and have been fixed within the 4yr/50k warranty, such as the piston wring replacement and a CPAP Malfunction issue that I had, along with a fuel line replacement.

If I look to Consumer Reports, they claim 1/5 for total reliablility, and 2/5 for that same metric if you scroll down (they conflict), and looking at each of their "16 trouble spots," things really don't look too bad. It's no Lexus, clearly, but things look pretty solid. Engine major and minor is good (I think this not being great is because of the wrist pin issue, which is fixed), transmission and drive system is great, suspension issues seemed to be AirMatic only, there weren't exhaust issues despite what they said (they were misfiled), etc etc. For anyone who's curious, the "16 trouble spots" use statistical standards, the overall rating of X/5 (which is self-contradictory for this car, as in one place it's 1/5 and the other 2/5 for the same MY, on the same exact web page, just down a bit further) is relative to all other cars, and by the number of issues. Also note that they misfiled some complaints for some of the "16 trouble spots," affecting categories that shouldn't be affected.

Mainly, I'd only be worried for the year or two that I still have it after the 3 year unlimited mile warranty.

I'm also considering just stashing the money it costs to certify the car and for the extra warranty, in case I need it.

So, what do we think about the reliability of this car? Do we think that the issues would all be worked out in the beginning, and long term, as a car it'll be reliable, or will it be a nightmare?

Gungaslow

I vote ....RUN!!!!

cjaredscott

Yeah... but unfortunately my mile overage is going to be around $5k (it was unavoidable, unfortunately, for multiple reasons), and I just don't feel like throwing that away.

It's only be 1 year out of warranty with 5 year financing, assuming I trade at end of fourth year. I'll have to check depreciation to see when I actually can.

Gungaslow

My family has owned at least 6 Mercedes that had run out of warranty just over 1or 2 years..something always went wrong on ever one of them and it cost a fortune to repair.. never again for us

cjaredscott

Yeah, I've had mixed experience with Mercedes out of warranty. Had a '09 GL that was CPO and always had problems while in the CPO warranty (they probably paid out $15k-$20k) and then when the warranty expired it was absolutely trouble-free for the next year. I have a '13 GL that only had one issue, about 20k miles in (coolant leak), but was flawless after that until it went away at 75k miles. I had an S-Class that was meh. I've heard amazing stuff about the W204s, especially later MYs, as far as reliability (and good stuff about W212s) but this is a W205 of course. Also had a '99 C-Class which was pretty much trouble free... had it until 2014.

So, I don't really have one overall experience with the brand (like Lexus or Toyota or BMW on the other end), but for me it's been more per model and per MY. I always try to have warranties for as long as possible if it's anything but certainly and confidently reliable, though, like a Lexus. But for that extra year...

GrFa

Six in one half dozen in the other. You aren't throwing away $5k if that is your mileage overage you are simply paying for the amount of miles you used. You just aren't splitting it up in your monthly lease payments.

If you buy for the car for your residual you are doing the exact same thing by paying the price of a 30k mile car for a 50k mile car or whatever the difference is in your case.

cjaredscott

Not exactly. When extra miles are factored into your lease, you pay roughly $0.10 per mile. Depreciation is roughly $0.096 per mile. The overage is $0.25 per mile. That's 2.5x the lease rate. So, yes, I am essentially throwing away $3,000, whereas I'm paying about $2,000 in actual depreciation and miles. Money I agreed to throw away (give to Mercedes) if I go over miles, but still, if it's avoidable to some extent, I'd like to avoid throwing it away. At least if I buy the car off lease, thus far I've paid for X amount in depreciation (whether it's an accurate valuation or not) plus interest, and I can basically pickup from there, as if I bought the car. I'm not arguing that they can't do it or anything or that I shouldn't have to pay it — I agreed to it and signed the contract, as many people do and will continue to do with leases, and will pay if they go over the agreed upon miles (get the right number of miles (a few over is typically no big deal), and if they don't offer enough, then don't lease, unless you can work out a pull ahead to get rid of those few extra miles) — but that doesn't change the fact that there are other options.

There's a reason it's called an overage penalty.

mis3

I own a 2004 CLK320 and it has been my daily commute for 13 years with over 230k miles. While repairs are generallly expensive, the car is reliable. Good thing is after so many year and miles, the car still rides great.

On the other hand, a CLK is a simple car as compared to a new MB. I a, not sure if a modern Mb is reliable as there are significantly more features.

BTW. I never owned a Lexus. Is Lexus that reliable?

fabbrisd1

Well.. to be helpful.. let's just take 1/2 step back..let's chat about purchase #'s for a second

1. On the Mercedes Financial side - at the end of your lease - all payments paid - "lease purchase cost" from MBFS will be the residual shown on your lease - if you don't have that at hand - you can call MBFS and get that # - and they can also list any additional fee's.

2. Your local MB dealer - if they buy your MB from MBFS - there is a different cost the dealer will pay - often several $1,000 lower.
If that "dealer price" is lower enough - the dealer might be able to inspect + service as needed + sell that same MB back to you Mercedes Certified at same-or-slightly lower cost than your direct cost to purchase from MBFS.

3. Depending on credit tier with MBFS or another 3rd party lender - Mercedes Certified at solid low market price - if you're concerned about the additional cash outlay for sales tax on purchase you could choose to leverage that into the financed amount on top - or pay sales tax yourself as lump sum - again that has to do with your personal situation.

Now... on reliability - with proper/recommended maintenance - yes - the W205 is frankly reliable - the W205 is more complex than it's predecessor the W204 - but yes - overall reliable - which does not mean you should forgo opportunity for added warranty - nothing hurts by having CPO - which you can later choose to extend out a additional 2yrs if you choose to do so.

-------------
If you want to hold out until '18's start arriving - leading to even bigger discount newer - or any other reason - you can call MBFS and extended your existing lease month-by-month until you have the "new" MB you really want.

-------------------------
Keep the beat !

Again - just trying to help - keep the beat !

cjaredscott

I understand. What you've outlined is basically what I've outlined to my dealer as far as what I want to do. Buy the car off lease at the residual and have them certify it (estimated cost: $3.5k).

Only issue with MB dealer buying from MBFS is I'm still on the hook for the $5k. That means their sale price would need to be $5k lower (at the least) than my purchase option with MBFS (or $1.5k lower at least if that includes certification). Unless they somehow negotiate my purchase price down and take that option for me, where I don't have to pay the mileage overage, that's what it'd be (read: they'd have to take my purchase option and get MBFS to do it for less money — then they can certify it and sell it back to me — for it to be less — otherwise, I'd just buy it and have them certify it — if they just bought it after my lease was over, I'd already have paid MBFS the $5k for miles — and yes, the car would be priced less than the residual due to miles, but like $2k less, not $5k less — again, unless that purchase price from the dealer is $5k or more under the residual purchase price with MBFS after they buy it). I have a spreadsheet laying it all out. I'm not so much concerned about needing to roll additional money into financing.

As far as reliability, that's my primary concern for that final year of ownership, where I would have exhausted 3 years of CPO warranty.

fabbrisd1

If you have paid $5K excess mileage - without saying your purchase price (which should be real damn low compared to market - and you're saying dealer is trying to hose you for $3.5K over residual price to certify - unless that $3.5K includes major work required like all-brakes-all-new-tires - IF you love your C-Class - OR you buy a different CPO.

The only reason I guess you are considering this is LOWEST PRICED Certified C-Class in your area when it's all said and done.

Mike5215

MB will sell you an Extended Limited Warranty that adds 5/75,000 I believe. That starts ticking after the original warranty ends. You can buy it at any time as long as you bought the car from an MB dealer. Several MB dealers discount it so shop around. It doesn't have to come from the original selling dealer. I haven't priced one in awhile but I think they're in the $2500 range.

Option #2 would be to simply trade the car in like you would a purchase. The payoff is the remaining payments plus the residual. No hit for miles and no turn in inspection. If the wholesale value of the car is close it works out.

cjaredscott

I haven't paid anything yet. I have 8 months left in my lease. If I buy my car at the agreed upon residual value, I don't have to pay the mile overage to Mercedes, which is 2.5x the rate of actual depreciation (and with this many miles over, that sucks) — instead I just lose the part that's actually depreciation in the actual value of the car, and don't pay the part that's giving Mercedes extra money ($0.15 per mile — in this case). It basically is like picking up where I left off, as if my lease were a financing agreement. And I pay for the mile overage in depreciation, not Mercedes-Benz fees which are 2.5x higher per mile (some of which is depreciation, the rest is Mercedes charging what they can — and what we agree to).

cjaredscott

That was the original plan. Unfortunately, the residual for the car is not close to the wholesale/trade value.

It makes more sense for me to CPO my car and extend that unlimited mile warranty out to 3 years. I put 40k per year on my Lexus, in addition to around 12k per year on the BMW and (originally) 10k per year on the Benz, but now 20k+ per year (life changed, oh well). Instead, I'll do that 40k per year on my Mercedes if I buy it (it makes much more sense to CPO the car for 3 years/unlimited miles), have the Lexus replace the BMW, and get a new car to replace the Mercedes (in Florida). As you can see, a 5/75k, or even the 100k option, would make little sense to me... especially for the money...

Mike5215

I don't think you can "CPO" the car. First the receiving dealer has dibs on the turn-in. He may decide to keep it in his used inventory if it's an especially desirable model. The decision to CPO it is his. In addition to the $2500 or so MB charges the dealer for the certification, the dealer also has to pass the car thru a 120 point inspection and remediate all the issues preventing certification at his expense. Expect the price of your car back to you as a CPO to be dealer retail plus at least $2500, and more if it needed reconditioning to get it certified. Nowhere near as low as the residual.

However in all likelihood the dealer will take a pass on the car entirely and send it off to auction. So nowhere in that process do you, as a leasee, have control over whether or not the car becomes CPO. You can, as I mentioned, buy the extended limited warranty that is similar to the ELW that comes with a CPO car.

cjaredscott

I've discussed it with my salesman and sales manager already, as well as the finance guy. It won't be an issue. They will take the car for about 2 days prior to the lease ending, do the inspection, and prepare the paperwork for me purchase it, with the certification and warranty, and financing. Yes there will be a price.

Mike5215

How did they come up with the agreed price? Residual plus certification costs?

Gungaslow

Run!!!! Don't do it!! You will regret it. I'm just trying to help you here..your not listening to anyone.. why ask the question if your already set on making the mistake no matter what anyone says

applehaus01

Never again with MB for me. I'm going back to Honda or Toyota in 3 yrs.

cjaredscott

I'm not "not listening to anyone." I've been trying to explain the financials and structure of my plan, which has proved difficult, because there's been considerable difficulty in understanding it, it seems (which is understandable). And it is just that — a plan. And plans change. I have literally months to make this decision. Which is why I'm collecting opinions — because if it's not worth it, I won't do it.

To me, buying my car and having a 3 year unlimited mile warranty is worth it, at X cost (40k per year on one of my cars), especially when it means I don't pay about $3k in fees attached to the $2k in depreciation to MBFS. The question I will need to decide on is whether having the car for that last year without a warranty (the time I could trade it in) is worth it. That's what I'm asking about. If not, I pay $3k in fees to Mercedes beyond actual depreciation. If yes, then I go forward with this plan.

(For the purpose of this car (the Lexus now or this car if bought and CPO'd), I can't lease due to mileage. So I can either drive this or the Lexus if I don't buy this. I do prefer this, but I'm not going to make a stupid and poor financial decision, so I'm not "set." FTR, the BMW would go away and I can replace it with the Lexus. My aim in this is two-fold: to avoid paying $3k in unnecessary fees beyond depreciation to MBFS, and to have a car that I can drive as much as I drive the Lexus, not worry (it's owned/financed and has a good warranty or is reliable or makes sense to own for the last year without the warranty — that's the question, of sorts), but that I actually enjoy driving (not that I don't like my Lexus — it's really comfortable and pretty quick — but not "fun") — and this achieves all of that (see Lexus/Benz CPO point later), sans one year of not having a warranty, which may make it worth it or not. In fact, buying any reasonably nice new car other than from Lexus for this probably wouldn't be worth it due to reliability because of miles. And I don't like them as much as I love my Mercedes. I could buy a different Benz CPO, but why buy a Benz other than mine when I could avoid $3k in fees and pay what I'd pay for any other CPO Benz re: certification? Note that the decision to buy any Benz CPO would raise these questions (the reliability in that last year), unless I got a super low mile one that was almost brand new and I squeezed a year out of the manufacturers warranty, but I don't know if the extra price paid there would be more than the repair costs for mine for the last year.)

And don't forget, I was asking about the reliability for that last year, which would be out of warranty, for a specific model, and people's opinions on how reliable they think it's going to be, combined with my own brand experience.

Gungaslow

Make sure it's insured..and go to a shady part of town with the windows down and the keys in the cup holder usually works great

Sailingfool

My recent experience with Mercedes, Mercedes dealerships, and MBUSA has soured me for life on the brand. The current vehicle is the nicest, lowest mileage Benz that I've owned, and by far the most unreliable, with the most expensive repairs. The dealership treats me like a leaper. I'm afraid to drive it because I don't know what will break next. I went with a friend on a 300 mile road trip last week. I suggested we take her '06 Hyundai with cloth seats and a weak A/C because we'd have a better chance of making it back. We did.

My first 2 Mercedes were amazing vehicles that I drove for many trouble free years, the last of which was an '03 C320. The '12 R350 is a piece of junk.

The Best or Nothing? Nothing from Mercedes please, thank you!

cjaredscott

It's not "in contract" yet, but yes. Plus all the usual fees, etc.

removedCFGaccount

A leaper? I guess they don't want the liability should you jump....

cjaredscott

Lol, I feel... more than you realize... (I genuinely found this very funny.)

Honestly, here's the thing, and why I asked. Let me tell you about my experience with Mercedes.

1999 MB C280, had until 2014. Bulletproof.
SLK230... that was messy...
2006 MB S430, had until 2012 with 120k miles. Had it's issues, but not too bad. I don't really remember.
2 W204s... both were great, still had one (kind of).
2009 MB GL450, had until 2016 with 130k miles. Had sooooo many issues until the CPO warranty ran out in Summer of 2015 and 105k miles. Then it was absolutely bulletproof for the next year, completely out of warranty (and 25k miles), until it was decided that a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a lifetime warranty would replace it (that's not even a year old and has over 30k on it already).
2013 MB GL450, had until 2016 with 72k miles, 22k miles beyond MFR's warranty. Car had one issue. One. And that was at 33k miles. Dealer fixed no problem, it was a hose or something.
2015 MB C300 (car in question). Has maybe 37k miles on it. Mechanically it's been great, no issues, with the exception of a fuel line (car ran ok). Had a CPAP intermittent thing and a couple of other honestly insignificant gremlins. My hope is that this stuff will go wrong while it's still in the potential CPO warranty — the first roughly 6-7 years or like 150k+ miles.

So you can see, I've had a wide range of experiences... and of course I keep up on the forums...

Consumer Reports is useful too. They gave it a 1/5, even though it was actually a 2/5, shown lower in the page, but I don't really look at that because it's based off the number of problems compared to every other car of that year, can vary by year to year for the same exact car (if they changed nothing YoY and other cars got more or less reliable), and isn't statistical. I do look at the trouble spots, as this involves statistical problem rates deemed reliable and unreliable (and extremes for both), as well as "average," instead of being like JD Power's "more or less reliable than all other cars," as well as C/R's overall reliability. It is also obviously more specific to each part of the car.

If we look at C/R's trouble spots, for 2015, they report 4/5 for engine major and minor (minor appears to be an issue on C400s and major is probably the wrist pin replacement — done), 3/5 for suspension (Airmatic only), 4/5 for body integrity and body hardware (mine is fine, not worried), and 3/5 for power equipment and in-car electronics (absolutely expected). Everything else received top marks. Engine major and minor would both, for me, be 5/5 too, because of the fact that the one issue doesn't apply to the C300 and because fo the TSB that was handled. Power equipment and in-car electronics... yeah... that sucks. Power equipment is probably fine and mis-classified in-car electronics, I wouldn't doubt (C/R does that sometimes — look at exhaust on the '15 C-Class — it's hilarious because it's all COMAND complaints).

So here I am.