CLS63TT spark plug broke
#76
Out Of Control!!
Actually it can just fly out through exhaust port and hit nothing.
If you unlucky it can get pinched between valve and valve seat or if squish is smaller than piece it will get stamped in to piston and sit there. I have never seen electrode damage cylinder wall, at least on motorcycle engine that I work on all the time.
Since compression is down on Ali's engine I would do simple leak down test and see where it is leaking. It will tell if exhaust valve, intake or piston. Simple test that points to problem.
If you unlucky it can get pinched between valve and valve seat or if squish is smaller than piece it will get stamped in to piston and sit there. I have never seen electrode damage cylinder wall, at least on motorcycle engine that I work on all the time.
Since compression is down on Ali's engine I would do simple leak down test and see where it is leaking. It will tell if exhaust valve, intake or piston. Simple test that points to problem.
And I agree about the leakdown test
#79
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If the piece went through the exhaust valve and out wouldn't it destroy the turbines of the turbo?
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#83
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
Problem is, a lot of modders expect to get it both ways. All the extra power of a high-output aftermarket, non-factory-sanctioned tune, but the deep pockets of the manufacturer's warranty in the event something breaks. To his credit, the OP doesn't seem to be like that - he definitely comes across as a standup guy, and sounds like he plans on paying for the repairs if they're likely mod-related.
As for the tuners - hard to say, but with a new(ish) platform and the constant pressure to "one-up" each other with dyno, track, and VBOX results to capture more market-share... it wasn't going to be long until someone had an issue. It doesn't seem like a coincidence that a guy running his car incredibly hard, at high speeds, in high temperatures, suffered what appears to be detonation-related engine damage. But we'll have to wait and see what the techs find out.
ok thanks for this new information. back to my original question; why did these parts need to be changed what was the cause? was the cause a simple spark plug failure?
i don't know too much about engines, so what you're saying is the spark plugs caused this issues, damn that's wack..
i don't know too much about engines, so what you're saying is the spark plugs caused this issues, damn that's wack..
It could simply have been a piece of faulty hardware (a bad sparkplug), that might've failed anyway even if he'd left everything 100% stock. Or, it could've been a software-induced hardware issue, if the tuning was too aggressive and caused detonation during his WOT, high-load, high-temp operation of his vehicle. Or, the grey area where it's a combo... a plug that's so-so, but would've been fine with the more conservative OEM tuning, was exposed as a weak-link with the more aggressive, higher boost aftermarket tuning. It can get complicated, trying to sort these things out.
#84
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
AFR being richer than stock is one data-point - do you datalog though?
It seems that if you're running very very hard, in harsh conditions, it would be worthwhile to log timing advance, IATs, boost pressure, lambda, etc. - to see how healthy and happy your engine was, even at WOT and sustained high-speed runs in high temps. You could send those datalogs to your tuner, who could make sure everything was 100% - or, catch a problem if it wasn't, before any issue arises.
As you surmised earlier in the thread - you are probably pushing your M157 harder than most. Logically, you might need some custom changes to your tune map to account for your conditions, fuel, and usage. Other guys might be able to get away with the "shelf" tune, for quick blasts here and there on the highway, or 10-11 seconds of WOT up to 120-130 MPH, or a few dyno runs in between general cruising.
#85
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2009 CLS63 AMG
So you just have the "shelf" M157 tune from OE Tuning, no custom alterations?
AFR being richer than stock is one data-point - do you datalog though?
It seems that if you're running very very hard, in harsh conditions, it would be worthwhile to log timing advance, IATs, boost pressure, lambda, etc. - to see how healthy and happy your engine was, even at WOT and sustained high-speed runs in high temps. You could send those datalogs to your tuner, who could make sure everything was 100% - or, catch a problem if it wasn't, before any issue arises.
As you surmised earlier in the thread - you are probably pushing your M157 harder than most. Logically, you might need some custom changes to your tune map to account for your conditions, fuel, and usage. Other guys might be able to get away with the "shelf" tune, for quick blasts here and there on the highway, or 10-11 seconds of WOT up to 120-130 MPH, or a few dyno runs in between general cruising.
AFR being richer than stock is one data-point - do you datalog though?
It seems that if you're running very very hard, in harsh conditions, it would be worthwhile to log timing advance, IATs, boost pressure, lambda, etc. - to see how healthy and happy your engine was, even at WOT and sustained high-speed runs in high temps. You could send those datalogs to your tuner, who could make sure everything was 100% - or, catch a problem if it wasn't, before any issue arises.
As you surmised earlier in the thread - you are probably pushing your M157 harder than most. Logically, you might need some custom changes to your tune map to account for your conditions, fuel, and usage. Other guys might be able to get away with the "shelf" tune, for quick blasts here and there on the highway, or 10-11 seconds of WOT up to 120-130 MPH, or a few dyno runs in between general cruising.
#87
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C218 CLS63TT PP Edition1, W213 E63S
so to conclude everything untill now:
car will not be fixed under warranty.
- bore has 4 small scratchs and depth is less than 0.1mm as dealer stated.
- peices that was broken could not be found inside ( maybe stuck on valve or went out )
- there is no oil in the chamber although they installed a new plug and were revving the engine and testing it.
- pressure is 40%-45% less than other cylinders.
- head will be opened and i will take some pictures and post it here tomorrow or on Tuesday.
car will not be fixed under warranty.
- bore has 4 small scratchs and depth is less than 0.1mm as dealer stated.
- peices that was broken could not be found inside ( maybe stuck on valve or went out )
- there is no oil in the chamber although they installed a new plug and were revving the engine and testing it.
- pressure is 40%-45% less than other cylinders.
- head will be opened and i will take some pictures and post it here tomorrow or on Tuesday.
Last edited by Ali_E55; 05-06-2012 at 04:10 AM.
#88
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C218 CLS63TT PP Edition1, W213 E63S
So you just have the "shelf" M157 tune from OE Tuning, no custom alterations?
AFR being richer than stock is one data-point - do you datalog though?
It seems that if you're running very very hard, in harsh conditions, it would be worthwhile to log timing advance, IATs, boost pressure, lambda, etc. - to see how healthy and happy your engine was, even at WOT and sustained high-speed runs in high temps. You could send those datalogs to your tuner, who could make sure everything was 100% - or, catch a problem if it wasn't, before any issue arises.
As you surmised earlier in the thread - you are probably pushing your M157 harder than most. Logically, you might need some custom changes to your tune map to account for your conditions, fuel, and usage. Other guys might be able to get away with the "shelf" tune, for quick blasts here and there on the highway, or 10-11 seconds of WOT up to 120-130 MPH, or a few dyno runs in between general cruising.
AFR being richer than stock is one data-point - do you datalog though?
It seems that if you're running very very hard, in harsh conditions, it would be worthwhile to log timing advance, IATs, boost pressure, lambda, etc. - to see how healthy and happy your engine was, even at WOT and sustained high-speed runs in high temps. You could send those datalogs to your tuner, who could make sure everything was 100% - or, catch a problem if it wasn't, before any issue arises.
As you surmised earlier in the thread - you are probably pushing your M157 harder than most. Logically, you might need some custom changes to your tune map to account for your conditions, fuel, and usage. Other guys might be able to get away with the "shelf" tune, for quick blasts here and there on the highway, or 10-11 seconds of WOT up to 120-130 MPH, or a few dyno runs in between general cruising.
i was thinking of getting a softer tune or richer due to my habit of driving and our sunny weather.
but for sure i know Vic is banging his car even more than me.
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2008 C63 ,2009 SL 63 AMG, 2011 SLS AMG
there are already german techs here and they claim that the plugs on my car are the updated ones and now fail, but also the other plugs were melted because of the tune ( as they say ) and they are not designed for this much power.
i think these cars need 2 - 3 step colder plugs after tuned and downpipe.
i really hope valve or worst than that head and valve need to be replaced.
i hope piston or block have not been affected.
i think these cars need 2 - 3 step colder plugs after tuned and downpipe.
i really hope valve or worst than that head and valve need to be replaced.
i hope piston or block have not been affected.
thats pure BS from the dealer. A bunch of douchebags that just dont know what they are doing and dont want to work and wanna blame everything on your ECU tune. Your ECU tune is safe and there is nothing wrong with it in terms of the safety of your components and internals.
My uncle has the 2012 CLS63, which is completely stock. He had the same problem that you are facing.
The plugs is a common problem for the M157 engine. They were on recall and they still did not come up with something good.
Get yourself some Brisk Spark plugs. A friend of mine is running them on his Tuned M157 E63 without any issues.
#91
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I agree with Jacob.
It almost sounds like they are making an example out of Ali to deter others from Tuning there 63’s.
I’m sure if those that have information on Dealers that have had stock M157 motor failures due to plug failing would send this to Ali, it would make it harder for them to prove it was the tune.
I think in the end it would help all that tune their rides.
It may or may not help but doing nothing… the manufacture wins.
It almost sounds like they are making an example out of Ali to deter others from Tuning there 63’s.
I’m sure if those that have information on Dealers that have had stock M157 motor failures due to plug failing would send this to Ali, it would make it harder for them to prove it was the tune.
I think in the end it would help all that tune their rides.
It may or may not help but doing nothing… the manufacture wins.
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thats pure BS from the dealer. A bunch of douchebags that just dont know what they are doing and dont want to work and wanna blame everything on your ECU tune. Your ECU tune is safe and there is nothing wrong with it in terms of the safety of your components and internals.
My uncle has the 2012 CLS63, which is completely stock. He had the same problem that you are facing.
The plugs is a common problem for the M157 engine. They were on recall and they still did not come up with something good.
Get yourself some Brisk Spark plugs. A friend of mine is running them on his Tuned M157 E63 without any issues.
My uncle has the 2012 CLS63, which is completely stock. He had the same problem that you are facing.
The plugs is a common problem for the M157 engine. They were on recall and they still did not come up with something good.
Get yourself some Brisk Spark plugs. A friend of mine is running them on his Tuned M157 E63 without any issues.
Another thing to keep in mind here is that in the u.s. there may be more of a grounds to appeal such a mb corporate position on the repair because of the mag moss act, which does not apply in Ali's country. Still, I think appealing the decision through mb corporate is still worth while.
#93
Super Member
As far as I can see 3 of us have had to replace plugs so far after a tune:
Rob@Vivid
Ali_E55
Freefall (me)
Here are my facts-
*I had a build date of 10/4 and drove it hard from day 1. I did not respect the break-in period.
*I drove it hard for about 3000 miles until the plugs went and it was a violent experience...there was no guessing that it was the plugs and told the SA that as I rolled in.
*This happen within a week of getting my ECU back from Renntech
*No collateral damage was done and the plugs were replaced under warrantee. The discussions I had with the folks at the dealership went like this..."If I did have a tune, could that be the cause of the plugs going bad." The answer was no.
But I still have a hard time believe that we can increase the HP and TQ by 10/15% over the AMG tune and not upgrade other components that may be affected.
Rob@Vivid
Ali_E55
Freefall (me)
Here are my facts-
*I had a build date of 10/4 and drove it hard from day 1. I did not respect the break-in period.
*I drove it hard for about 3000 miles until the plugs went and it was a violent experience...there was no guessing that it was the plugs and told the SA that as I rolled in.
*This happen within a week of getting my ECU back from Renntech
*No collateral damage was done and the plugs were replaced under warrantee. The discussions I had with the folks at the dealership went like this..."If I did have a tune, could that be the cause of the plugs going bad." The answer was no.
But I still have a hard time believe that we can increase the HP and TQ by 10/15% over the AMG tune and not upgrade other components that may be affected.
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2020 Audi R8 V10, 2016 AMG GTS, 2018 E63S Edition 1, 2018 Porsche GTS Cab, 2012 C63 BS
Most of, if not all, plug issues are coming off non PP cars right? Edition 1 cars seems to be getting the recalls too- I ask in a quisitive tone...
Im still gonna check my plugs just to make sure- but Im pushing the car daily (or when I drive it) with high speed bursts and hard acceleration and the car is running fine.
#95
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My car IS a PP car and as you well know I had issues.
#97
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thats pure BS from the dealer. A bunch of douchebags that just dont know what they are doing and dont want to work and wanna blame everything on your ECU tune. Your ECU tune is safe and there is nothing wrong with it in terms of the safety of your components and internals.
My uncle has the 2012 CLS63, which is completely stock. He had the same problem that you are facing.
The plugs is a common problem for the M157 engine. They were on recall and they still did not come up with something good.
Get yourself some Brisk Spark plugs. A friend of mine is running them on his Tuned M157 E63 without any issues.
My uncle has the 2012 CLS63, which is completely stock. He had the same problem that you are facing.
The plugs is a common problem for the M157 engine. They were on recall and they still did not come up with something good.
Get yourself some Brisk Spark plugs. A friend of mine is running them on his Tuned M157 E63 without any issues.
#98
Super Member
Vic - you have no idea how many times I have heard that in my life.
From the time I dropped out of high school to just last year when my company made the INC Magazine's fastest growing company list.
I'm a NYC cowboy living in a foreign land...but I've seen a million faces and I rocked them all...
Now excuse me while I light this spliff.........
From the time I dropped out of high school to just last year when my company made the INC Magazine's fastest growing company list.
I'm a NYC cowboy living in a foreign land...but I've seen a million faces and I rocked them all...
Now excuse me while I light this spliff.........
#99
MBWorld Fanatic!
Vic - you have no idea how many times I have heard that in my life.
From the time I dropped out of high school to just last year when my company made the INC Magazine's fastest growing company list.
I'm a NYC cowboy living in a foreign land...but I've seen a million faces and I rocked them all...
Now excuse me while I light this spliff.........
From the time I dropped out of high school to just last year when my company made the INC Magazine's fastest growing company list.
I'm a NYC cowboy living in a foreign land...but I've seen a million faces and I rocked them all...
Now excuse me while I light this spliff.........