Anyone Happy With Third Place?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 54
FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
That's fine. Each to his own. Even the article mentions the AMG is "unapologetically different from the other two." That's right, AMG is distinctive in its own ways and it's all about brute and raw power like the original Hammer and that is the way I like it. Of course, once MB throws in the DCT for all their AMG's, then it will be interesting.
16.5"...that's truly something. It's bigger than the oem rims of most decades ago cars out there.
16.5"...that's truly something. It's bigger than the oem rims of most decades ago cars out there.
Last edited by otakki; Sep 15, 2013 at 04:44 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
SL63
I think in this case the CLS deserved a 3rd place finish. It has a potent powerplant, but that's all it really has going for it. The MCT is old and never was all that great. It's just a modification of the 7g tronic circa 2004 without the torque converter. The tech level in the CLS is also far behind that of BMW and Audi. If you've ever spent any amount of time in either you'd understand how "old" the CLS technology feels. I don't see the facelift next year doing anything about that as it didn't for the E and they share the same platform.
I don't agree with the RS7 having first place. In the only measurable tests it came up 3rd place. It didn't stand out in straight line or handling performance. Only on the subjective tests did it score some points. But this is from C&D that shilled for the S6 in their "exclusive" preview months before anyone else. The same car in production trim that failed to live up to those same lofty expectations and was later shellacked for it's poor performance compared to the cars it supposedly outclassed months earlier.
I don't agree with the RS7 having first place. In the only measurable tests it came up 3rd place. It didn't stand out in straight line or handling performance. Only on the subjective tests did it score some points. But this is from C&D that shilled for the S6 in their "exclusive" preview months before anyone else. The same car in production trim that failed to live up to those same lofty expectations and was later shellacked for it's poor performance compared to the cars it supposedly outclassed months earlier.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,925
Likes: 170
From: Naples FL
2021 Porsche TTS
JJ, please expand on the "old" technology that the CLS has.
Other than the cool google map of the Audi GPS (and that will cost you $30 internet fee per month), I see little difference with the competition.
Other than the cool google map of the Audi GPS (and that will cost you $30 internet fee per month), I see little difference with the competition.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
SL63
Like I said, you'd need to spend some time with them, not just a short test drive to see what they're capable of. The nav system is only one thing vastly superior. Full color HUD, larger screens, 360 degree cameras, split screen capablity, lcd dash, far more customizable and integrated, etc, etc. The CLS feels like a dinosaur in comparison tech wise, even my new SL feels old in comparison and it's a flagship car.
Super Member
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 706
Likes: 50
From: Scottsdale, AZ
2018 S 650, 2014 SL 550, 2017 911 TTS Cab, '13 F458 Spider
I have to agree, the MB telemetrics is old technology, slow and poorly integrated IMO. Heck, to be honest even my Prius is far superior and intuitive, can be learned in minutes without a manual. I've read the MB manual, viewed their videos and I still can't get it to dance. For a top echelon car its an embarrassment.
However I would not buy a car for it's telemetrics. The exterior/interior style, performance, drivability and safety of the CLS63 far outweigh the others. When MB brings their electronics up to par with the rest of the car they will have a finished product.
However I would not buy a car for it's telemetrics. The exterior/interior style, performance, drivability and safety of the CLS63 far outweigh the others. When MB brings their electronics up to par with the rest of the car they will have a finished product.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 844
Likes: 71
'19 G63 Ed 1,'18 M5, '16 G63,'12 458 , '11 E63, Brabus SL55-K8, '10 S63, '94 E500 "Wolf", '91 560SEC
I spent alot of time driving the F10 M5. The CLS had me at the exhaust note and muscle car personality, mainly the exhaust crackle in S+ mode
. Gadgets in the M5 don't impress me that much. Sure the MCT doesn't shift as fast as the DCT, but it is still the smoother transmission of the two. Especially in stop and go traffic. As far mods go, the other two can't touch it.
. Gadgets in the M5 don't impress me that much. Sure the MCT doesn't shift as fast as the DCT, but it is still the smoother transmission of the two. Especially in stop and go traffic. As far mods go, the other two can't touch it.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 815
Likes: 2
From: Fla. Snowbird.
Porsche 911 Turbo S 2014! E63S 14, Audi S8 13, CLS63 12, E550 12, C63 09, all tuned
1 question, how can the BMW get second place and it can not run on the autobahn past 250 KPH?
Also, I have a S8, Google maps is useless. MMI system is almost technical overkill. Distronic cruise control sucks too.
Mechanically the car is wonderful autobahn machine. Just do not push the car hard in the corners, it under steers a lot.
Also, I have a S8, Google maps is useless. MMI system is almost technical overkill. Distronic cruise control sucks too.
Mechanically the car is wonderful autobahn machine. Just do not push the car hard in the corners, it under steers a lot.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,462
Likes: 54
FF. W212 E63 M156 non-pano 18" P2 ParkT NightV (gone but will be missed).
All car maker's oem nav systems suck when compared to gps capabilities from Garmin and TomTom. And oem nav systems suck even more when you compare the price of oem nav systems to top-of-the line offerings from Garmin and TomTom. I just don't get why car makers can't team up with Garmin and TomTom to work on the nav functionalities.
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
bmw x3
All car maker's oem nav systems suck when compared to gps capabilities from Garmin and TomTom. And oem nav systems suck even more when you compare the price of oem nav systems to top-of-the line offerings from Garmin and TomTom. I just don't get why car makers can't team up with Garmin and TomTom to work on the nav functionalities.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
SL63
All car maker's oem nav systems suck when compared to gps capabilities from Garmin and TomTom. And oem nav systems suck even more when you compare the price of oem nav systems to top-of-the line offerings from Garmin and TomTom. I just don't get why car makers can't team up with Garmin and TomTom to work on the nav functionalities.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
SL63
I owned a '12 CLS63 for 2 years before I traded it for the M5. I felt the M had a lot more character than the CLS and with the full leather package was nicer inside too. The technology was just the icing on the cake and I didn't discover most of that until I took the car home and started playing with it.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
bmw x3
I owned a '12 CLS63 for 2 years before I traded it for the M5. I felt the M had a lot more character than the CLS and with the full leather package was nicer inside too. The technology was just the icing on the cake and I didn't discover most of that until I took the car home and started playing with it.
cls has DISTRONIC PLUS, but m5 doesn't.
We can't say that M had a lot of more character than cls.
Administrator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,263
Likes: 901
From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
I have owned the CLS and the M--- in fact I dumped the CLS for the M... if character means driveability with chassis feedback, handling, steering and overall more feel; than yes the M to me has more too. I speak from ownership. What does HUD and distronic have to do with character? Those are creature comfort options... (I know he used that analogy but i see driveability as character)
Last edited by Vic55; Sep 18, 2013 at 06:25 PM.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 659
Likes: 1
From: Dallas, TX
SL63
What I am saying is that against the new competition it comes up a little short in some key areas. MB has some work to do in order to bring it up to speed. Things like the transmission and the electronics package for example. These are not as good as its competitors and MB needs to see this so they'll be motivated to make changes.
I'm not some BMW fan, in fact this M5 is the first BMW I've ever bought, but I'd need 3 hands to count the number of AMGs I've had. I guess you could say I was living in a bubble world having driven mostly AMGs for the past decade. Once I got out of it did I realize that MB is behind in some important areas and does need to make improvements. I sold the CLS for the M5 as I felt the driving character was superior, not simply gadgets like the HUD or computer/nav system. Those simply help round out the car and give it a leg up.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
bmw x3
I think you're assuming because I said it deserved a 3rd place finish that I'm saying the CLS is a bad car. That is not the case. It was a great car and I wouldn't have kept it 2 years if it wasn't.
What I am saying is that against the new competition it comes up a little short in some key areas. MB has some work to do in order to bring it up to speed. Things like the transmission and the electronics package for example. These are not as good as its competitors and MB needs to see this so they'll be motivated to make changes.
I'm not some BMW fan, in fact this M5 is the first BMW I've ever bought, but I'd need 3 hands to count the number of AMGs I've had. I guess you could say I was living in a bubble world having driven mostly AMGs for the past decade. Once I got out of it did I realize that MB is behind in some important areas and does need to make improvements. I sold the CLS for the M5 as I felt the driving character was superior, not simply gadgets like the HUD or computer/nav system. Those simply help round out the car and give it a leg up.
What I am saying is that against the new competition it comes up a little short in some key areas. MB has some work to do in order to bring it up to speed. Things like the transmission and the electronics package for example. These are not as good as its competitors and MB needs to see this so they'll be motivated to make changes.
I'm not some BMW fan, in fact this M5 is the first BMW I've ever bought, but I'd need 3 hands to count the number of AMGs I've had. I guess you could say I was living in a bubble world having driven mostly AMGs for the past decade. Once I got out of it did I realize that MB is behind in some important areas and does need to make improvements. I sold the CLS for the M5 as I felt the driving character was superior, not simply gadgets like the HUD or computer/nav system. Those simply help round out the car and give it a leg up.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
If you've ever used BMW idrive or audi mmi you wouldn't be asking this question.
Super Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 815
Likes: 2
From: Fla. Snowbird.
Porsche 911 Turbo S 2014! E63S 14, Audi S8 13, CLS63 12, E550 12, C63 09, all tuned
Well, I have a 2013 S8, and new2014 E63S. Both cars now have tech over kill.
Who needs the Internet in a car. Both cars have it. I guess for people that do not have a smart phone. Neither car can it be used when moving! Audi s MMI screen and GPS maps are better then MB. But MB is simpler to use. Audi s google maps is not really functional as a map. Try to dial a extension on Audi when making a call. You can't, you have do it on the phone. If your not on the phone screen on the Audi, you can not answer. Oh, MB now reads text messages aloud to you. And Audi s distronic cruise control can only be set at 2.5 mph increments, in between speeds you have to time as you accelerate or decelerate. BS.
TQ steer on Audi, is abundant, Barely noticeable on E63S. Not even mentioned in article.
S8 all aluminum chassis is a unique experience thought I must admit.
I drive the Audi S8 as a luxury car, RS7 I have not driven yet. E63S I drive as a sports car.
The problem with these car Mag critics is they do not live with the cars, they just observe.
I can believe the Audi RS7 as number 1, but not the M6 as number 2!
Who needs the Internet in a car. Both cars have it. I guess for people that do not have a smart phone. Neither car can it be used when moving! Audi s MMI screen and GPS maps are better then MB. But MB is simpler to use. Audi s google maps is not really functional as a map. Try to dial a extension on Audi when making a call. You can't, you have do it on the phone. If your not on the phone screen on the Audi, you can not answer. Oh, MB now reads text messages aloud to you. And Audi s distronic cruise control can only be set at 2.5 mph increments, in between speeds you have to time as you accelerate or decelerate. BS.
TQ steer on Audi, is abundant, Barely noticeable on E63S. Not even mentioned in article.
S8 all aluminum chassis is a unique experience thought I must admit.
I drive the Audi S8 as a luxury car, RS7 I have not driven yet. E63S I drive as a sports car.
The problem with these car Mag critics is they do not live with the cars, they just observe.
I can believe the Audi RS7 as number 1, but not the M6 as number 2!
MBWorld God!
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 31,277
Likes: 3,916
From: on my way
2012 CLS63
Super Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 632
Likes: 0
From: NorCal
I am an Audi fan... always have been. But I have a serious problem with the RS7. 1. It's not the RS6. 2. It's ugly. That rear end looks like it's the lazy end of the car. CLS looks better, and the M6 looks best in my opinion.
MBWorld God!
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 31,277
Likes: 3,916
From: on my way
2012 CLS63
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,925
Likes: 170
From: Naples FL
2021 Porsche TTS
I have an Audi and see no major differences between the 2. In the MB you need to spend some time like changing the map to 3D but I seriously do not see why it would be called inferior. Just a different way of thinking but not inferior once you know how to use it.
Administrator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,263
Likes: 901
From: THE Orange County, California
2024 C8 Z06- 2025 BMW CS- 2022 Porsche 992 GTS
The powertrain and chassis sections are virtually equal for the Benz and Audi--- the subjective parts are just that....so drive the cars, and pick what you like as they are all very closely matched.
I dont know what the big cries are here; the Benz killed it in the 0-60 and was equal in the quarter so it wins the mash and go section which is clearly empirical.
Im going to drive this RS7 as soon as it hits ground. Id like to see how a 4400 lb car with 21's really feels.
I dont know what the big cries are here; the Benz killed it in the 0-60 and was equal in the quarter so it wins the mash and go section which is clearly empirical.
Im going to drive this RS7 as soon as it hits ground. Id like to see how a 4400 lb car with 21's really feels.
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
bmw x3
The powertrain and chassis sections are virtually equal for the Benz and Audi--- the subjective parts are just that....so drive the cars, and pick what you like as they are all very closely matched.
I dont know what the big cries are here; the Benz killed it in the 0-60 and was equal in the quarter so it wins the mash and go section which is clearly empirical.
Im going to drive this RS7 as soon as it hits ground. Id like to see how a 4400 lb car with 21's really feels.
I dont know what the big cries are here; the Benz killed it in the 0-60 and was equal in the quarter so it wins the mash and go section which is clearly empirical.
Im going to drive this RS7 as soon as it hits ground. Id like to see how a 4400 lb car with 21's really feels.
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/match4585-4677-4476.htm
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Have you tried giving voice commands between the audi and the merc? On the audi you can just say call so and so and it calls that person or say go home and it maps you home. Try doing the equivalent in the Benz and you have to go through so many cumbersome steps. Try entering an address in the nav with voice command and it takes three times as long in the merc. Not to talk about the tiny screen in the CLS vs the a/s/rs7's pop up screen or the map graphics quality, blah, blah, I could go on and on.
