1SICKLEX

Its everyone. Look at how just badges alone have grown in size. The ones on Cadillacs are ridiculous in size. Grills are bigger and bigger, resembling SUVs (which the buyer wants).
I think the ACura TSX and Madza 6 are great cars, but why do they have these huge dual exhausts?
The Pontiac Grand Prix has red painted stock calipers. They are like 10" in diameter.....

Stylists have lost it. Only a few designs are really great. I do think the 300C and Magnum are the best styled American sedans in maybe 20 years. Bangle hasn't a clue.

It's b/c no one used clay and models. Everything is on the computer. Blah.

Tariq

Whose kidding here???

Belmondo

I guess MB should do hte 5y.o. niece "test" before they release their cars. If thats the best argument that whoever wrote it has than he is definitly the "Pontiac Aztek " of auto critics.

Belmondo

YOur friiends comment on CLS is not any different than the one I read on Roadfly about 300C or in the link someone posted by some newspaper dude who liked everything but the 300C's looks. It is what it is --just another opinion. If I were looking to buy 300c or CLS today niither comment would sway me away from one of these cars, that is the point.

Belmondo

CLS is not hte only car on planet Earth, pointing out that CLS will provoke different opinions/feelings about it just like the cars you have/drive do is hardly flaming.

Belmondo

Same people that buy 300C's today to compliment their Ferraris and Bentley's were buying Cadillac Escalades and Hummers not long ago. 300C is nothing but a temporary trend for people with "Bentleys and Ferraris" As soon as Larry from Ohio and Skippy from Arkansas will get his 300C it will be all over.
"The CLS will never get that kind of broad base appeal "----- Yes you are right a car that will cost over 60k for V6 model and 90-100k for CLS55 will never have the same broad appeal as 30-35k car. If CLS was priced as 300c than by the numbers sold we could see wich one is more popular.

saing that 300C offers the performance of the cars that cost twice as much is is good information --- 5y.o. niece opinion on CLS on the other hand is loony. Every car in hte world like by some and disliked by others

"Belmondo you are all wrong and have no stats to back up your claim."

I did not introduce any stats here-you presented you friends opinion as an indicator of something and I simply pointed out that I read opinions of people that did not like 300C. YOu by pointing out that 300C is a sucsess just proved my point that some people may not like the car but it can be huge succsess, there you have it.
MB only plans to sell 30000 CLS's a year, rental companies alone in the future may have more 300's in their fleet than MB plans to sell CLS's.

Also there is not much difference between 300C and plain 300's ---you have t o know what to look for to tell them apart, just like AMG's.

SOrry for taking the thread off topic.

mick1

It looks sweet to me

Belmondo

blueSL

That side profile is the only view of the car that is reasonable. Rear three-quarter and rear end-on are simply dreadful. There's worse to come with the new S Class which has a rear end similar to that other eye-sore, the Maybach.

Gunther

Here's my take on the CLS fitting into the MB line up...

The E was downsized from the W210 model to the W211. My guess is that is will be made slightly smaller again with the next redesign.

The S is being stretched 5 inches from it's current size when it's redesign comes out in 2006.

The CLS will then have a place inbetween. It will be larger than the E (closer in size to the W210 size), but still smaller than the new S class. The price point will also set it somewhere between the E and the S. Therefore the niche for the car will have been created.

E55 KEV

LOOKS CAN BE DECEIVING!

The W211 is not "downsized" from the W210 and the CLS is not larger than W211 in trunk, interior, height. The CLS is a four seater, so people looking for a larger car than the E-Class will not be buying the CLS.

W210 E320:
Wheelbase 111.5
Length 189.4
Width 70.8
Height 56.7
Trunk 15.3
Front headroom 37.6 in
Rear headroom 37.2 in
Front legroom 41.3 in
Rear legroom 36.1 in
Front shoulder room 56.3 in
Rear Shoulder room 57.1 in
Curb weight 3,624 lb


W211 E320:
Wheelbase 112.4
Length 189.7
Width 71.3
Height 57.2
Trunk 15.9
Front headroom 37.4 in
Rear headroom 37.7 in
Front legroom 41.9 in
Rear legroom 35.6 in
Front shoulder Room 56.4 in
Rear shoulder Room 56.1 in
Curb weight 3,691 lb

E55 KEV

Man, where do you get your opinions from? You say this as if the Escalade and Hummer cost nothing, every rich guy on this planet has either one of those or a Land Rover and "Larry from Ohio and Skippy from Arkansas" do not. Last I looked they are quite expensive in their category, how can you belitte the Escalade and Hummer price wise?

The PT Cruizer and the Beetle were hot and a fade but people with Bentley and Ferrari money did not buy them in droves. Still, the point I am making which the sales demographic show is - the 300C and Magnum have a 'broad base appeal'. That is not the same as 'broad based sales' - you have the two mixed up. A car can have broad based appeal at any cost. Like the Mercedes SL has 'broad base appeal' but not broad base sales. Everyone loves the SL over just about every other cabrio in the world. The myriad of types buying the 300 & Magnum is very broad base. Rich and middle, old and young, every ethnicity and from hip-hop to button-down. The CLS regardless of price will not have 'broad base appeal' much like the W215 CL.

How can you trivialize and denegrate people with the cash to buy Escalades & Hummers along with their Bentley's or Ferrari's as going thru a phase is beyond me. Any car that is being snapped up by owners of Ferraris and Bentleys means a lot regardless of how belmondo tries to explain it. If one has the cash to buy any car on the planet why would they be buying the ugliest car on the planet? That makes no sense. Nor are these rich people replacing there old Ford Taurus or Buick with the Chrysler. A Rich person would never be caught dead in a $30k Taurus or Crown Vic but would pay $10k over sticker for that $30k Chrysler 300. I wonder why?

The cars probably look like notihng to you but there are a lot of very expensive people with very deep pockets standing in line to buy a car that starts at $23k and fully loaded at $38k.

Gunther

You can play the technical numbers game with the E all you want. I have a
W210. My sister has a W211. The backseat - due to the angle of the roof line
is significanly smaller in the W211. The distance between the back of the console and the back seat is at least 2" longer in the W210 to W211.

Technically, is it smaller? No. Userful space, is it smaller? Yes.

E55Kev...are you going to berate everyone on the board who doesn't agree with you?

*** nevermind, I see in your profile you're former military....says everything I need to know.

E55 KEV

Of course I am! j/k

You got it backwards - you are berating me because I did not agree with you! You posted the downsize issue first and I responded and then you got upset or something. We Cool!

Sorry if you feel berated, did not mean to come off that way. I just like to post the facts. But I don't think a car is down sized because of a couple of millimeters where you mentioned - that is just perception. Also, if you thought the CLS was larger that is also your perception, because it is not. Now, going from the W140 S-Class to the W220 is a down size.

I actually thought I was being helpful providing the specs. Believe me, I will get under some people's skin, but overall I am helpful. This comment today from a member in another thread.

Gunther

well, glad to hear it Kev...my perception is based upon trying to sit three people in the back of our W210 (me included) and then putting those same people in the back of the W211. The 210 has much more room in the back. I also realize that they "use" those numbers to make things seem bigger then they really aren't. The back of the 211 just feels lower in the head room and much smaller in the shoulder space - but that may only be my experience.

While I like the CLS and it's lines....I think that when the time comes to sell the 210 that we have...we won't get a CLS, but will probably jump up into an S500 or the equivalent at that time....we're wanting a BIG full sized sedan. I'm not sure the E or the CLS will really offer that....

MadC32

Just a side note for those judging the car by it's magazine pics. Please go see the car in real life. It makes a huge difference. I didnt like the car either when it appeard on the geneva car saloon.. but now, after seeing every detail/line put into this car, I find it simply amazing. We had a presentation the last week of september to our VIP-customers.. and each one of them was really surprised by the car's looks.

absent

I did not dare to comment until I saw the car "in the flesh".

E55 KEV

Need a full size sedan? I can recommend a Chrysler 300C Hemi with 340HP. He-He!

Better yet, how about an 300C SRT-8 with 425HP, HID, 20" rims and suede center seats for $40k!

internet_mafia

People buy the 300 because it is a classy looking "bentley" wannabe, or at least from the front. For 35k, yeah just about anybody would find the car affordable and intruiging. The MB, on the other hand, doesn't strike up a conversation like the 300 does. Rich people will buy the 300 because it is a change up from what they're already used to, MB mainly.

Trond_Erik

In Europe, the E-class is very popular as a taxi. In fact it's that popular that some people will not by the E-class i fear of beeing call'ed a taxidriver. The CLS is an offer for these people. That's one of many reasons why they started production of the CLS.

(I must apollogise for my poor english. Hope you understand my writing )

blueSL

The 300 has just been panned here. Poor quality, dreadful road-holding, overly intrusive traction control. The only think it has to recommend it is a low price.

E55 KEV

Hmmmm! FYI, the 300C and the Magnum RT Hemi's are running on Mercedes based chassis components, steering, front suspension and full independeant rear end. So saying that they drive awful equates to Mercedes driving awful! The Hemi's have same tranny as my E55 and the AWD is exactly Mercedes 4-Matic. The weakest link in the handling is the 60 & 65 series Touring tires which are not designed for handling but comfort and long wear.

It is too early to talk about long term quality, plus Chrysler has a better quality rating than Mercedes-Benz. It would be stupid to expect $70k car quality from a $30k car. When I drive them I am not missing or desiring anything in luxury, quality nor performance, all things considered, versus my AMG. Plus they offer more space than an E-Class and close to the S-Class roominess.

How many forum members or owners of Mercedes-Benz, especially an AMG owners has either car besides me to give real owning experience? I drive an AMG one day and either Hemi the other and I like them both so far. I get 11/12 mpg from the Hemi and that means that I'm "not" driving gingerly.

What low price in Europe? In Germany the base price of the 300C Hemi is $49,950 Euros. That equals $63,861 USD. The E500 base price is $52,600 Euros.

thuged_out

if 645ci is CLS's main competitor, then I guess CLS wins the battle hands down! Anyways, I remember reading somwhere that MB is going to buld a real 2 door coupe based on CLS. Now that would be a crazy looking Benz.

finally_retired

That wouldn't happen. They would be invading the market space of the CL.

I have placed an order for an CLS55 ready to replace my S600. I really like the styling, and I've always been a fan of AMG.

I'm hoping that it will be a little more exclusive than my current S class.