Picture of OverDrive Pulley Set (ODPS)
08-05-2002, 12:33 AM
#26
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99' SLK 230 & 01' CLK 430
i seem to concur w/ brad on this issue such that if a harmonic balancer is need, then why would MB use the same balancer for every engine? if it was so important, each balancer would need to be tuned for each individual engine but this is simply not the case. the same part is used for their v6 and v8 engines.
Also, just to let everyone know, Vadim runs ALL of these parts on his OWN C32. He does not speak about them from a theoretical point of view like many do, he actually runs them
everyday for over 100 miles a day!
everyday for over 100 miles a day!
08-05-2002, 01:27 AM
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ones too fast according to CHP!
Originally posted by linh
Even after knowing this about BMW I-6 problem with aftermarket crank pulley, and Evosport are selling those pulley. It can only be one reason, is MONEY !! All i have to say about the "harmonic balancer", that is there for a reason? Do you agree with that or not? If the alloy pulley is SO GOOD (lighter plus give you more hp) then why didn't Mercedes install it in their cars? If it not importance then why BMW, Mazda, Saturn, Honda engine ...etc. has problem with aftermarket pulley? Why do we "balances" the tire? Is the same reason why Mercedes installed "harmonic balancer" pulley.
Even after knowing this about BMW I-6 problem with aftermarket crank pulley, and Evosport are selling those pulley. It can only be one reason, is MONEY !! All i have to say about the "harmonic balancer", that is there for a reason? Do you agree with that or not? If the alloy pulley is SO GOOD (lighter plus give you more hp) then why didn't Mercedes install it in their cars? If it not importance then why BMW, Mazda, Saturn, Honda engine ...etc. has problem with aftermarket pulley? Why do we "balances" the tire? Is the same reason why Mercedes installed "harmonic balancer" pulley.
By the way, you ever follow a thing called SCCA Speed World Challenge? If you were watching Speed Channel today you would have seen 8 cars with our name on them as those teams believe in our products and run pulleys. The top BMW's all have our pulleys! We have won three races this year. Yea, but they are a really bad thing! LOL!
Yes, and the fact that European Car and EuroTuner RAVE about our BMW pulleys is of no importance. They don't know what they are talking about, right?
BTW, yes, we have a business, we do have a goal to make money. However, 10+ HP at the wheels for $400 does not make us thieves as you suggest! LOL! Should we become a non-profit and simply give away aftermarket product?
Linh, there are MANY reasons why manufacturers do what they do. You would be surprised to learn that in reality optimum performance is not the main factor. Realize that if it cost MB $10 more per car (per pulley) plus all the initial R&D to develop a kit different then they had on the shelf, it would cost them billions of dollars! Most manufacturers, especially MB are not driven by the consumer who wants ultimate performance.
Yes, there is an engineering rationale for the harmonic dampener. Is it still as essential as it used to be. I am not sure, but all of the 'insiders' we have talked to at BMW and Mercedes (including techs on the factory race teams) say no. Will the motor still do 300K miles with a solid pulley. Might not, but in todays world, people who care about maximizing performance are willing to trade off!
Further, if the manufacturers optimized all the parts to performance, then there would be no tuners - period!
Thanks
Brad
08-05-2002, 01:30 AM
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ones too fast according to CHP!
Originally posted by linh
Because the vibration is not that much different from V6 and V8. You guys just don't get it. Why do you guys think car manufacturer used "liquid filled" engine mount for? It to reduces the vibration from the engine being transmitted to the car body. Same go for "balance" tires. Same go for Mercedes belt tensioner "shock absorber". All this is for one reason, TO REDUCES VIBRATION.
Because the vibration is not that much different from V6 and V8. You guys just don't get it. Why do you guys think car manufacturer used "liquid filled" engine mount for? It to reduces the vibration from the engine being transmitted to the car body. Same go for "balance" tires. Same go for Mercedes belt tensioner "shock absorber". All this is for one reason, TO REDUCES VIBRATION.
Linh, they use liquid filled motor mounts so people will not complain! One of the best ways to improve performance is to go to rigid or solid mounts for the motor and trani. This eliminates the waste.
Yes, the car will be louder and you will feel more vibration, but that will not hurt the car my friend!
Brad
08-05-2002, 02:07 AM
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99' SLK 230 & 01' CLK 430
Yes, there is an engineering rationale for the harmonic dampener. Is it still as essential as it used to be. I am not sure, but all of the 'insiders' we have talked to at BMW and Mercedes (including techs on the factory race teams) say no. Will the motor still do 300K miles with a solid pulley. Might not, but in todays world, people who care about maximizing performance are willing to trade off!
Linh, they use liquid filled motor mounts so people will not complain! One of the best ways to improve performance is to go to rigid or solid mounts for the motor and trani. This eliminates the waste.
08-05-2002, 02:11 AM
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07 SL550; C32 (sold)
Because the vibration is not that much different from V6 and V8.
08-05-2002, 02:24 AM
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ones too fast according to CHP!
Originally posted by linh
Yes, i'm one of those people willing to trade off for maximizing performance. So you finally admitted that there's a trade off for maximizing performance. So don't make it sound like by not having the "harmonic balancer", it does not effect anything.
Yes, i'm one of those people willing to trade off for maximizing performance. So you finally admitted that there's a trade off for maximizing performance. So don't make it sound like by not having the "harmonic balancer", it does not effect anything.
Originally posted by linh
Brad, that's exactly my point. There's a reason why it was design and built that way. I used to owned E30 and E36 M3 and so i know about this stuff. But let me tell you, it only for the track use. There's no way any body can deal with it in street car for everyday use, cause i sure can't deal with it on my car. Ok...this is just a discussion.
Brad, that's exactly my point. There's a reason why it was design and built that way. I used to owned E30 and E36 M3 and so i know about this stuff. But let me tell you, it only for the track use. There's no way any body can deal with it in street car for everyday use, cause i sure can't deal with it on my car. Ok...this is just a discussion.
Linh, it was not a discussion. A discussion is where one person says something and the other one listens and responds accordingly. You never listened to what I said and you responded to Vadim's and Goalies posts as if I had taken a position. I really don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth. For future reference you should realize that a discussion requires two or people actually communicating. Communication does NOT occur when one of the people involved fails to actually listen to (or read in this case) what the other person has said.
Brad
08-23-2002, 05:40 PM
#33
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Originally posted by linh
What i meant is like an 19 in. wheel and th 14 in. wheel, even those one is way bigger then the other but when you balance them with tires on, it does not require that much of weight to balance both wheel because the it was design to a spec. so that is why there's not much off in both wheel....:>)))
What i meant is like an 19 in. wheel and th 14 in. wheel, even those one is way bigger then the other but when you balance them with tires on, it does not require that much of weight to balance both wheel because the it was design to a spec. so that is why there's not much off in both wheel....:>)))
08-26-2002, 06:54 PM
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C32 AMG
Well, there's only one way to find out: time. I will not buy ANYTHING until it's been on a few cars for a while. Aftermarket parts that I buy should be as reliable as OEM. Is that asking too much? Maybe.
Frankly, I don't care who is using what in the SCCA unless they keep these parts on their cars all the time. F1 engines make 900hp out of three liters. For the street, what does it matter if they blow up after 3 hours? An extreme case, but you get my point. Upgrades of this nature look to be cheap and effective, when executed properly and reliably. We'll see.
Frankly, I don't care who is using what in the SCCA unless they keep these parts on their cars all the time. F1 engines make 900hp out of three liters. For the street, what does it matter if they blow up after 3 hours? An extreme case, but you get my point. Upgrades of this nature look to be cheap and effective, when executed properly and reliably. We'll see.
08-27-2002, 09:57 AM
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C32 AMG
Originally posted by JustinTRW
Well, there's only one way to find out: time. I will not buy ANYTHING until it's been on a few cars for a while. Aftermarket parts that I buy should be as reliable as OEM. Is that asking too much? Maybe.
Frankly, I don't care who is using what in the SCCA unless they keep these parts on their cars all the time. F1 engines make 900hp out of three liters. For the street, what does it matter if they blow up after 3 hours? An extreme case, but you get my point. Upgrades of this nature look to be cheap and effective, when executed properly and reliably. We'll see.
Well, there's only one way to find out: time. I will not buy ANYTHING until it's been on a few cars for a while. Aftermarket parts that I buy should be as reliable as OEM. Is that asking too much? Maybe.
Frankly, I don't care who is using what in the SCCA unless they keep these parts on their cars all the time. F1 engines make 900hp out of three liters. For the street, what does it matter if they blow up after 3 hours? An extreme case, but you get my point. Upgrades of this nature look to be cheap and effective, when executed properly and reliably. We'll see.
