Fifth Ring

None of us have an RS4 (afaik). He's getting worked up over an illogical argument over a fact (102MPH 1/4 mile trap) which is not only improbable, but also contradicted in other tests.

Unless folks are ignoring the factual posts that are being made here, it's pretty obvious that the trap time is off. Of course, if 1/4 mile times are what float your boat, there are Camaros in the classifieds every day.

Fikse

I think steveL does have an RS4......

melmanc55

So much talk of track times with these cars and I will never understand the benefit. 90% of buyers won't ever see a track. It's was a mute point when I went looking for a car. I will never push my car hard (in a turn) enough on public roads to notice it has a problem with handling. Even if it was the best handling car on the planet it becomes a non issue once you hit a non prepared sufface like your average highway or public road. The C55 IMO remains the best choice.

Fifth Ring

Fair point. I actually do bring my cars to tracks (road courses NOT drag strips). Safe, legal street driving is never as intense or demanding as any track driving, so I see your point. That said, the C55 is a solid peer of the S4 and M3 on the track.

So if handling doesn't matter to you, you'd be happy with a C240 also, unless the extra HP matters to you.

dmzz

By your logic, I don't know why you would even spend the money in a C55 when a C230 will do your type of driving just fine.

SteveL

Yep only for 2 weeks now and only a few hunderd miles.

SteveL

I don't think you need to drive on a race track at the cars limits to notice that one handles better than another. A curvy public road even at 7/10s is more than enough. I test drove a regular S4 on public roads and you can definitely tell the RS4 handles better. The suspension on my SLK32 is too stiff right now so it lacks mechanical grip coming out of a sharp corner, the rear slides a bit, even at 1/2 throttle. I've driven many great cars, E55, previous gen M5, 996TT, BMW 540, C43 and I think they have unique handling charactistics that you notice in every day driving.

TopGun32

you are correct.. they don't measure the 1/4, they measure 0-62km , 0-100km o-200km and 1000 meter and they Also the measure top speed.

for 74K.. I'll buy a used RS6 and mod. If you remember.... SCCA 2 years ago.. AUDI RS6's where clearly superior to other cars on the track courses. I just don't understand why for 74k... you don't get the DSG??? There is no way a person can shift as fast as a dual clutch system.

Why buy a high compression V8, with limited mod potential?

For 74K.. you are buying a all wheel drive... 3900lbs and no torque.

TopGun32

you only made the E55's point even stronger...

there are very few cars that can beat the E55 in everyday driving. Most roads are NOT curved. In urban city life, all you see is 5 lanes at each side and long stretches of road... and you are lucky if you have the chance to drive with no traffic.

Unless you live in the mountains... and you see many s-turns, hair pin turns on your way to work... the E55 will spank anything that is out there under 100mph..

With so much power advantage, the handicap of the E55 will not be noticed by everyday driving and freeway driving. Unless you put them both at Laguna Seca at the same time..then you would only see the virtues of the RS4. Then we come back to the point.. is it really worth having a 74K track car?

Personally... I rather have an Evo ix and mod. If we want to drive a track car, the we don't need all the extra comforts of the RS4 and we don't need its additional weight.

By the way.. i'm looking at one with 15k miles and fully load and extended warranty for 57k... (plenty of room for better suspension mods and more power) for that price.

SteveL

My guess is that you have driven an RS4 yet. If you do, I think you will notice a difference in every day handling, over an E55, a previous generation M5, an S4, a C55, and most other 4 door sedans. I've driven each of the cars I mentioned and there is a difference in my opinion in every day driving.

There is no question about the E55's performance, truely awesome. My point was that if $74K should result in a faster car, a $94K car should not only be faster, it should also handle at least as well as the $74K car.

Also, I have been looking at the price. Sure, it is $74K but if you look at the C55 for instance, which equipped comes to about $64K. However, doesn't the RS4 have more to offer, turning headlights, 19" wheels, center and rear diffs, more power, awd, better brakes - I'm not necessarily talking performance but technology even though performance is pretty good too. Then there is arguable stuff like better interior, better quality materials, real carbon fiber, etc. Shouldn't it cost more than the C55? $10K more? If you modded a C55 with some of the differences between the cars, it wouldn't take long to spend $10K. Like I said before, we'll see what MB prices the C63 at - hopefully they build it, but I bet it will be considerably more than $64K. And if they build a better car than the Audi, then it should probably cost more.

It is pretty clear that BMW, Audi, and MB are upping the prices on the performance models pretty quickly. The M6 for instance is $102K MSRP. The SLK55 was a considerably price hike over the SLK32. The new M5 is considerably more than the previous model and the previous model looks better. The current E55 is considerably more than the previous model. I'm sure the V8 M3 and C63 will follow suit. The RS4 just came out first. It does suck that they are raising prices so fast - makes the argument for waiting a couple of years and depreciation all the more compelling. KBB Private party on a 2003 E55 with 51K miles in excellent condition is $55K.

melmanc55

My point is,,,,,,,straight line acceleration is why i bought my car (along with other things besides handling). So I still should have bought the C230? So if I'm not looking for a car that handles great then buy a C230.....hummmm. So the only reason to buy the C55 is the handling...there would be no other reason to buy it.....hummmm. Great point. Think I will go and trade in my C55 today. Thanks for the tip!

melmanc55

By the way..the RS4 is a great car (i've had two Audis'). People buy cars for different reasons. Just never understood the track issue.

FrankW

modding is irrelevant. anyone can spend a lot of money in one car to make fast. I'm sure you'll want to mod your RS4 one day.

I think people are just saying that for $74k there are a lot of other cars out there for consideration especially when they can be a class higher such as the E55 or RS6 or other sports car used or not. For me I personally think $74k plus tax and other stuff is too much for an A4 especially when they don't even give us the same steering wheel and seats as in the Euro car. However given the trend that's probably one will spend on for the next M3 and C-class AMG. This like you said makes the used market look very attractive especially when it comes to the E55s.

SteveL

Well I'm willing to bet that a C63 and new M3 will be in the same price range with options and gas guzzler. I guess we can all agree that $70+K is too much too pay for a small sedan but that is not going to change the fact that is what they are/will be priced at. The fact that the RS4 shares very little with an A4 isn't going to change your mind suppose.

FrankW

of course they're mechanically different from the engine, suspension, quattro, etc. But it is built from the aging A4 platform that changed so little from the B6 chassi. IMO It is a limited edition car that's going to be short lived, so people do pay a premium for it. It's just not for me tho. Oh yea, the RS4 is bascially like the M3 CSL in market strategy. Can anyone dig up the time M3 CSL and RS4 ran the Ring??

I still think this is some weird philosophy by VAG to create the S4, S6, and then RS6 and RS4. I still think they should just make a S4 that is every single bit on par with the M3 and C55 with out costing a lot more because if they did that the S4 would definitely be my pick between the three.

offtopic, I like the new S6 the best with that Gallardo root V10 even tho it has less power than the M5 or E63. lol

uownme

You are comparing a new cars price to used car prices. Im sure used rs4s are considerably less. Its a hell of a car, better than the c55 so quit trying to justify it by saying its overpriced.

PC Valkyrie

Ahhh.....I don't know how many times I've done this, but here are some numbers about the cars we've talked about. These are official Nuburgring times published from Sport Auto magazine, who uses the same driver to test these cars.

Audi S4 Avant (B6): 8.29 minutes
Audi RS4 (B7): 8.09 minutes

BMW M3 (E46): 8.22 minutes
BMW M3 CSL (E46): 7.50 minutes
BMW M5 (E60): 8.13 minutes

MB C32 AMG (W203): 8.37 minutes
MB C55 AMG (W203): 8.22 minutes

Unfortunately, they've never tested the E55 or CLS55 to get an idea how these straight line monsters would do on the ring. (I wonder whether it's because MB is afraid of embarrassment compared to its chief M5 rival, which was the fastest 4 door sedan on the Nurburgring, until the RS4 came out.)

FrankW

have you see me say that it's not a great car? when you are a buyer you look at all kinds of possibilities at the price range you are willing to spend. What's wrong with used cars?

uownme

I think used cars are great buys. No doubt about that but you keep saying e55/rs6 which would be used priecs for $74k.

BiTurboAmg

None the less, congrats on the rs4. I am interested on your thoughts of the car. My wife has an e46 m3 that is very nice and it handles great and revs like nothing I have been in. I must admit my cts v felt like it could keep up with the m3 in the twists no problem but seemed to lack in straigtline performance. My e55 is just stupid when going straight but if we hit the turns the wifes m3 is gone. Enjoy the car and keep me posted on your thoughts. I think it is a cool car that has some great things going for it.

FrankW

do you see me have a E55 or RS6? The E55 from 03-04 and the RS6 from 2003 is the only two that have similar power/performance to the RS4 and can be had for around the price. The E39 M5 and StypeR are great, but doesn't come close performance wise and you can't buy a E60 M5 for that price yet. why do I want to bother mention the others when considering similar performance in the real world.

Plus I didn't say the RS4 is overpriced. I said it is a great car, limited edition and there are people willing to pay for the premium for limited edition cars. I said for the money the RS4 would not be my choice, I didn't say it was overpriced did I? IF I do mind used cars, then yes the RS4 is perfect.

SteveL

Thanks. I washed it for the first time this evening. Personally I think the car is stunning. Unfortunately I have not driven an e36 M3. I know they handle very well. For me, the RS4 is the easily the best handling sedan I have driven so far. The best way I can describe it is that it carves corners like it on rails. It really sticks and is so sure footed, no steering corrections are required. You point the car where you want it to go and it just tracks there perfectly. I'm not sure if you are in the SF bay area or not but you are welcome to give mine a try if you are.

I do love the E55. When I drove one it was quite a rush. I can only imagine what a modified one is like. I have a pretty heavily modified SLK32 with abour 420 hp/tq and it weighs 3200 lbs. However, it is pretty tame unless you step on the throttle but then it really takes off. I had someone in the other day and took off and they said it felt like take off in an airplane.

SteveL

I guess I don't see it any different than what AMG Manufaktur offers in Germany for those who want to take their C55/E55/etc to the next level. The RS4 is like a factory modified car but you don't risk warranty issues. I really don't feel the need to modify the car, at least not yet... but my SLK32 definitely needed to be at least lowered and should have come with 18" wheels and cross drilled high performance brakes and ... so I felt compelled to modify it. In fact I still want to put an LSD on it. I think it sucks that you can get an LSD for a Soltice but not an SLK32 with 350 hp.

Btw, the seats are different in the US and European version because US cars require the passenger airbag sensor which is not available on the European seats. I do agree about the steering wheel. I don't know why they made it different.

Nickerz

Here's a thought...

Can we agree that the engineers at Audi, BMW and MB are ALL capable of making a car that has great handling? Or any car manufacturer for that matter...even the engineers at Kia? That being said, I think these debates are pointless. Right up there with trying to debate whether one modified car is faster than another? It never ends.

My point is b/c technology is available to all of these car companies who have a lot of money, they make decisions based on priorities that feed their bottom line. What does the consumer want? The E55 is a prime example b/c horsepower costs a lot. Trust me...the gang at AMG is certainly capable of making a track car (i.e., CLK-DTM) but they know that MB's consumers want a smoother ride when purchasing an E55 b/c, yes, 90% (if not more) of people who buy this car will never take it to a track or discern if it has "great handling" or not. So these cars, Audi, BMW, AMG, as well as others, pretty much have different priorities is all.

That's my two cents.

Nick

TopGun32

http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...pageNumber=1#2

At the track the RS 4 proves its mettle, launching from zero to 60 in just 4.7 brain-cell-punishing seconds. The quarter-mile disappears in 13.2 seconds at 106.8 mph.

102 MPH seem a bit low... this is more like it.