CynCarvin32

I have the E55 and while its fast its not as fun as a modded W203 when it comes to driving. If you had coilovers and a good brake kit on the W203 it would be a better car and a lot more fun to throw around. That assumes that you dont want just 1/4 power because if you do the E55 is just for you!

But really the E55 is to big to be much "fun" and a worked out C32 is nearly as quick as a stock E55 and it turns and stops in ways no E55 ever could.

splinter

>..."and a worked out C32 is nearly as quick"...

Cyn-
Thanks, once again, for your insight. Been shopping for an E55...

CynCarvin32

Dont let me talk you out of it if you love the car. I just drive SMGC32's C32 and after driving that car my E55 just seems big, heavy, sloppy, and uncordinated. While that C32 is very much not stock it is nothing out of the norm for what we see with modded cars on this forum. I just love sporting 4-doors and a well sorted W203 puts a big smile on your face in a way a M-Powered car does. I know some people love power and running the 1/4 mile track and for them the E55 is simply great. We all just like different things.

Last time on the track there was an SL55 PP and we ran very similar lap times (C32 was a bit quicker). Granted driver ability could be the difference but coming on to the front straight the SL and I would go the same speed and the SL would only pull a slight bit by the time you jumped on the brakes for turn 1. At that point I was ready to dive bomb him as the C32 was far stronger under braking (with a 4 wheel bbk).

RawAMGpower

If you notice right below that H&R logo is also a Bilstein!

sdsilverm3

H&R coilovers use custom valved Bilstein shocks. At least it did on my M3 H&R coilovers.

m3_eater

Nope, I think the Stage II+ C32 is fairly quick in a straight line - I just REALLY miss BMW handling. Cyn, based upon your experience, do you think that with PSS9s and BBKs that the C32 will handle like an M3? Anyone else feel free to chime in. Oh - and to head anyone off at the pass that is frowning right now, I'm asking for a subjective opinion of handling feel, not trying to start up old W203 vs. E46 flame wars, resplendent with Nurburgring times, etc .

Blake P

Probably gonna need some thicker sway bars to help with body roll as well. H&R or Eibach seem to be the most popular.

Fifth Ring

Hard to say. It depends on what "handle like an M3" means. You will never have the steering feel of an M3, but with the right tires and suspension, you can equal the lateral grip of an M3. But for that matter, a Plymouth Reliant with sticky tires can equal the lateral grip of an M3!

If you read/watch the reviews of M3s, C32s/C55s and S4s, the Benzes have a softer ride with more understeer. You can firm up the ride with RennTech springs or PSS9s. You can try to fix understeer with: (i) equal sized tires on all four wheels (ii) a stiffer rear stabilizer bar, or (iii) possibly by setting PSS9s to firm in the back. But so far, nobody has eliminated understeer.

CynCarvin32

Well having done all 3 things to reduce understeer and even more I can say the car is pretty neutral. It is still stable but it does not plow like before. Tire wear is a good indication of understeer and we now dont destry tires quite as quickly as before but we still go through them like they are going out of style.

Understeer is still there but compared to stock its 100% better.

CynCarvin32

The M3 is just a different car and its hard to say one is better than the other. I have driven and ridden in a few m3's at the track and both were quite nice. The C32 is equally as fast as a nicely modded M3 (with a skilled driver who laps 15 laps with only a .5 sec variance). Is the C32 equally as nice? I dont want to say no but the C32 seems to be a bit down on speed compared to the M3. I think that with the allignment upgrades increasing negative camber the C32 is very close. The second M3 I would use to compare the C32 against just is a street legal track car so its just not fair.

With all these mods the steering has a ton more feel and you can actually feel what the front tires are doing where as the stock car is (and i quote from a C32 owner and driver) "dealing with rubber bands."

Wish you were local for I would just say come on out on Jan 17th and see what its like first hand!

sales@eurocharged.com

My C32 is not even close to my old E46 M3 in terms of handling. I'm guessing that it has to do with the 50/50 weight distribution on the M3. Very fun car to drive and I will miss it!

360_iti

That and maybe it also has to do with steering ratio. I'm not sure about C32, but I think M3 has a better / quicker number - 14.5 to 1.
Back to the topic, FifthRing have you decided on a particular setup ?

Fifth Ring

I think steering ratio has a LOT to do with it. My wife's Audi TT feels like it handles more crisply, but I know that it's just a quicker ratio. Maybe we all need smaller steering wheels!

I'm not going to make a decision on suspension until my original shocks are toast. It could be another year. I'm torn between RennTech springs/shocks (which preserve OEM configuration and will not impair trade in value), and PSS9s which give the ultimate performance, but will hurt resale value if I choose to trade the car in. Given that the springs/shocks will be half the cost of the PSS9s, I'm leaning that way. I'd probably be happy with C55 spring/shocks if I could find some take-offs.

I think I need to build up some miles and some goodwill with the wife, and then drop some serious change on the Quaife limited slip differential and upgraded suspension.

CynCarvin32

I personaly dont see why you think a PSS-9 will hurt the cars value. It has the same front design and the rear is a spring and shock just like OEM. The car will not have any issues with being some crazy car. If you did what I want to do and had a suspension shop put a double wishbone front end on the car that might hurt the value but a set of springs and shocks with adjustable valving and adjustable spring perches for ride height is not some crazy upgrade. Plus pay a tech 200 bucks to put the car back to oem wheny ou sell it and then sell the pss-9 used for half of what u paid. From where I stand a lowered car is a lowered car regardless of who makes the parts etc (on a trade in value approach).

360_iti

I agree. It might not hurt the value as much as you thought. People who are looking to buy a C32 are usually somewhat enthusiasts anyway.

m3_eater

Great replies, all. I'm just trying to determine whether throwing more money at the C32 suspension is going to fix my opinion of the handling, or if I should cut bait and run off to an NSX or modded M3 Competition! Like I said, the RENNtech springs (and of course the Quaife LSD) made for big improvements, but the cost/benefit ratio may be getting too high, if after all that I'm still wanting a more neutral car - especially if it rides then like I'm walking around on my knuckles.

Fifth Ring

It hurts TRADE IN value. A CarMax/AutoNation will not touch a car with clearly aftermarket parts, and most dealers will discount you heavily. I agree that a private buyer (car enthusiast) is likely to understand; but in most cases you will be lucky to come away even (no loss of value). I lived it with my Audi which had top quality KW coilovers and dealers turned up their noses at it. I almost paid to restore the car to stock.

CynCarvin32

Ok so if you trade it in you are in trouble but is 200-300 bucks to a tech to swap the parts after work enough to justify having a less beneficial suspension. I pretty much agree people want an OEM car so I would take it off anyhow and sell the parts used.

The springs and shock idea may be oem like but it wont sit oem and the car will not ride oem so chances are they will see it. The springs are black and the shocks are black but the rear springs are progressive and the top 3 coils are all compressed when a stock spring is 100% uncompressed at rest.

Springs are 500 bucks, a set of shocks is say 600 bucks used maybe less. So its 1100 or so or 1600-1700 for the PSS-9 or Carlsson RS. At that difference I feel its a just upgrade.

spr

First off, I made my 996 basically a race car with every part imaginable. I tried to sell it like that. Guess what? No one even gave me what stock cars were going for. It hurts resale. I ended up taking all aftermarket parts off the car and sold them and the car that way. Further, it will cost more than 2-300 bucks to remove/install the suspension. Lastly, The Pss9's are much stiffer springs and different valving or else why add them at all!

MBenzNL

...erm...doesn't a bouncy ride mean that the shocks are TOO STIFF instead of TOO SOFT?

I have the H&R coilovers on my C270CDI as well and DO have to second the fact that THEY SUCK (bigtime actually) but NOT because they are too soft...the shocks are TOO STIFF instead and that shows in highspeed curves.
When I do 200-230kmh on the german autobahn (which is pretty much most of the time in when driving through germany) and go through slight curves with a bumpy road surface, my car with H&R setup starts to bounce enough to make my ASR light flicker (loosing traction) which is scary as hell every now and then.

I have eibach springs with koni yellow shocks under my C250D (for more then 500.000km already) and that setup is soooooooo much better then the H&R setup under my C270CDI.
H&R sucks but not because they are too soft...

greetingz,

Jani Anttila

Iīve had H&R coilovers also. I think they are quite stiff in front, but soft on the rear, rear is more like stock.

I also experienced that creepy ride with H&R, but after some work with different setups i found out the balance. Very simple solution, with common sense. If you lower it equally in front and rear, itīs ok. Add just 1-2cm more lowering in front and itīs terrible. I think many of us is lowering their cars more at the front end because of gap between wheel and fender...

Harry Madan

hey guys,

i just went through and read the whole post, because i'm also considering getting a suspension upgrade on my car. However i'm not looking to do it for looks, that would just be a side bonus. i currently have 2003 C32, and my stock shocks are way too bouncy when driving around town and highway's. so i want something that can perform and keep up to my car around corners, because i think i get way too much lean. and in the past all i have ever see ppl talk about are H&R as they were the best setup for my car. and now after reading all off that i'm not too sure. and now lost again on what set up i should get.

so car H&R's (some ppl say too soft, others say too hard) there are a lot of cons for this set up and some pro

the Bilsten PSS 9's no one has said anything bad about those

and i dont know what else to consider.

what i do know is that i'm going to get coil-overs, the whole set up.

as my car sits now its way too high from the front and lower in the back. the pic of my current car is attached and tell me if u think this is normal, for a C32.

plz advise on what coil-overs i should get.

P.S. to reduce under/over steer i'm going to get my car weight jacked. and that would improve my cars over all performance. thx again for ur help.

sdsilverm3

Harry, that's normal. The front fenderwells are cut a little higher than the rears giving you the illusion that the rear is lower.

Jon Winter

Carlsson RS's are built off of the PSS-9 platform. You can go from softer than stock to very stiff. On the track I ran them one position from full stiff.

360_iti

This is interesting, so far there are 4 people expressed their opinions about H&R coilovers.
The first one said they were too soft. The second opinion (me) said they were perfect. The third said they were too stiff. The fourth said they were stiff in front, but soft in rear. LOL.. oh well..