my 351rwhp baseline dyno with only dusty filters!!
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From: Socal
EVE
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
From: Socal
EVE
OK, spoke with Renntech again.
They still want me to check for intake leaks, but they now feel it is more of a tuning issue.
I have a dyno scheduled for Tuesday, and I'm supposed to bring my Eisenmann and factory exhaust and do a few pulls with each and see what happens.
They said that they have experienced this once before with a car that they tuned and it was because of resonating in the exhaust system. Jeff (Renntech tech & guru) nailed the rough idle and strange reverberation sounds that I’m experiencing during mid throttle. He said that this throws the O2 sensors off and that is why the car is running lean. They want me to do a few pulls with each exhaust before I send the ECU back for more tuning. The Eisenmann Race is high flowing, and the factory AMG is most likely not, so this could affect the numbers too. So, I’m going to do the rest of the tuning with the Eisenmann on.
He said that the ECU does not have static settings for A/F ratios, that the ECU is dynamic (constantly changing) and will try to compensate however it can (adding air, fuel, or removing it). The ECU uses the tuned maps as a starting point and a guide, but can and will change based on an individual driving style and sensors. He said that if one system is affected, that it could throw the ECU off, which results in power loss. He also said that the “Throttle Reset” method we use does not always work and that most of our cars will need to have the “learned” maps removed via the OBDII port. He said he has even seen cars with a disconnected battery keep learned maps. This might explain why some of us swear by the throttle reset and some see no change.
At any rate, I’m going to install the Eisenmann tonight, let the car get used to it and hopefully get some answers on Tuesday.
Most of this we already knew, but I'll try whatever they ask.
They still want me to check for intake leaks, but they now feel it is more of a tuning issue.
I have a dyno scheduled for Tuesday, and I'm supposed to bring my Eisenmann and factory exhaust and do a few pulls with each and see what happens.
They said that they have experienced this once before with a car that they tuned and it was because of resonating in the exhaust system. Jeff (Renntech tech & guru) nailed the rough idle and strange reverberation sounds that I’m experiencing during mid throttle. He said that this throws the O2 sensors off and that is why the car is running lean. They want me to do a few pulls with each exhaust before I send the ECU back for more tuning. The Eisenmann Race is high flowing, and the factory AMG is most likely not, so this could affect the numbers too. So, I’m going to do the rest of the tuning with the Eisenmann on.
He said that the ECU does not have static settings for A/F ratios, that the ECU is dynamic (constantly changing) and will try to compensate however it can (adding air, fuel, or removing it). The ECU uses the tuned maps as a starting point and a guide, but can and will change based on an individual driving style and sensors. He said that if one system is affected, that it could throw the ECU off, which results in power loss. He also said that the “Throttle Reset” method we use does not always work and that most of our cars will need to have the “learned” maps removed via the OBDII port. He said he has even seen cars with a disconnected battery keep learned maps. This might explain why some of us swear by the throttle reset and some see no change.
At any rate, I’m going to install the Eisenmann tonight, let the car get used to it and hopefully get some answers on Tuesday.
Most of this we already knew, but I'll try whatever they ask.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,175
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From: Socal
EVE
OK, spoke with Renntech again.
They still want me to check for intake leaks, but they now feel it is more of a tuning issue.
I have a dyno scheduled for Tuesday, and I'm supposed to bring my Eisenmann and factory exhaust and do a few pulls with each and see what happens.
They said that they have experienced this once before with a car that they tuned and it was because of resonating in the exhaust system. Jeff (Renntech tech & guru) nailed the rough idle and strange reverberation sounds that I’m experiencing during mid throttle. He said that this throws the O2 sensors off and that is why the car is running lean. They want me to do a few pulls with each exhaust before I send the ECU back for more tuning. The Eisenmann Race is high flowing, and the factory AMG is most likely not, so this could affect the numbers too. So, I’m going to do the rest of the tuning with the Eisenmann on.
He said that the ECU does not have static settings for A/F ratios, that the ECU is dynamic (constantly changing) and will try to compensate however it can (adding air, fuel, or removing it). The ECU uses the tuned maps as a starting point and a guide, but can and will change based on an individual driving style and sensors. He said that if one system is affected, that it could throw the ECU off, which results in power loss. He also said that the “Throttle Reset” method we use does not always work and that most of our cars will need to have the “learned” maps removed via the OBDII port. He said he has even seen cars with a disconnected battery keep learned maps. This might explain why some of us swear by the throttle reset and some see no change.
At any rate, I’m going to install the Eisenmann tonight, let the car get used to it and hopefully get some answers on Tuesday.
Most of this we already knew, but I'll try whatever they ask.
They still want me to check for intake leaks, but they now feel it is more of a tuning issue.
I have a dyno scheduled for Tuesday, and I'm supposed to bring my Eisenmann and factory exhaust and do a few pulls with each and see what happens.
They said that they have experienced this once before with a car that they tuned and it was because of resonating in the exhaust system. Jeff (Renntech tech & guru) nailed the rough idle and strange reverberation sounds that I’m experiencing during mid throttle. He said that this throws the O2 sensors off and that is why the car is running lean. They want me to do a few pulls with each exhaust before I send the ECU back for more tuning. The Eisenmann Race is high flowing, and the factory AMG is most likely not, so this could affect the numbers too. So, I’m going to do the rest of the tuning with the Eisenmann on.
He said that the ECU does not have static settings for A/F ratios, that the ECU is dynamic (constantly changing) and will try to compensate however it can (adding air, fuel, or removing it). The ECU uses the tuned maps as a starting point and a guide, but can and will change based on an individual driving style and sensors. He said that if one system is affected, that it could throw the ECU off, which results in power loss. He also said that the “Throttle Reset” method we use does not always work and that most of our cars will need to have the “learned” maps removed via the OBDII port. He said he has even seen cars with a disconnected battery keep learned maps. This might explain why some of us swear by the throttle reset and some see no change.
At any rate, I’m going to install the Eisenmann tonight, let the car get used to it and hopefully get some answers on Tuesday.
Most of this we already knew, but I'll try whatever they ask.
AFAIK - Frank's dyno'd once.
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 538
Likes: 2
From: Silicon valley
Audi C7.5 S6
Things that Renntech learns on your car might be, later applied to my car, since I have:
Renntech pulley & ECU, Evosport headers, intake surge tank spacers, full SL55 intake, IK20 plugs, tuned by Renntech.
The rest of my exhaust is currently stock, though.
Renntech pulley & ECU, Evosport headers, intake surge tank spacers, full SL55 intake, IK20 plugs, tuned by Renntech.
The rest of my exhaust is currently stock, though.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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From: So Cal
2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
If this is RWHP then why does the chart cleary say FLYWHEEL POWER?? From my understanding, Flywheel means horsepower at the crank which already factors in drivetrain loss. I'm confused.
How do these DynoPacks work versus a DynoJet?
How do these DynoPacks work versus a DynoJet?J/K....lol 
been on this board for a long time and this is only the first time i dynoed my car. my mods are filters, sl55 splitter, evo odps, exhaust (probably doesn't do crap), and of course the CUSTOM ECU by my ECU guy. SWEET! this is only the first tune (about an hr on the dyno lol) didn't have time to tune it more, will do more tuning when i get more mods. 
this is making me considering some more stuff to do. lol we'll see. I'm very happy right now. 
PM me if you wanna know more about the tuner. lol
best run 351rwhp 353lbft-tq
dyno
air/fuel
been on this board for a long time and this is only the first time i dynoed my car.
my mods are filters, sl55 splitter, evo odps, exhaust (probably doesn't do crap), and of course the CUSTOM ECU by my ECU guy. SWEET! this is only the first tune (about an hr on the dyno lol) didn't have time to tune it more, will do more tuning when i get more mods. this is making me considering some more stuff to do. lol we'll see. I'm very happy right now. PM me if you wanna know more about the tuner. lol
best run 351rwhp 353lbft-tq
dyno
air/fuel
Last edited by AMGSC; Jan 17, 2007 at 10:11 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,909
Likes: 130
From: Houston
C63S
I, along with most others here, are trying to provide accurate information to save people like Frank the headache of trial and error. I hope his car ends up being a monster and he is happy with it. I, however, are not happy and will not be happy until I figure the exhaust system out and get the car running exactly has I want.
I didn't buy the car to not put money into it. I love this car and I love tuning it and going through these processes. I believe, like most others here, to take a good idea and make it better. I have an image of what my car will be and I promise to make it happen even if it means doing the whole exhaust system again. There is more to gain, and I'm sure I will find it in the near future.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 925
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From: Maine
Not an AMG :(
Someone must have labeled something incorrectly or those numbers aren't in fact adjusted for drivetrain loss - if that was crank hp, then this dyno is showing the car to have stock hp (which isn't really possible with the mods he has done - ODPS, filters, splitter, etc).
Interestingly, nick@jlevisw just started a thread showing hp gains on a C320 using the dynopack and those numbers are correct for that car.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,517
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From: Ohio
...
Everything that I have done and the steps I have take are for everyone on the forum. What have you done? I bet money that when and if Frank adds headers, he will have the same issue that I have unless his map includes the exhaust mods, which I'm sure it doesn't. I dynoed between 347 (avg) and 352 (highest) with stage I software and pulleys only. Doesn't sound like Frank is eclipsing anything. I paid for the custom ECU, so it does not cost me anything to send it back for more tuning. I have also prepaid a set number of Dyno's, and I still have a few left, so why waste them?
I, along with most others here, are trying to provide accurate information to save people like Frank the headache of trial and error. I hope his car ends up being a monster and he is happy with it. I, however, are not happy and will not be happy until I figure the exhaust system out and get the car running exactly has I want.
I didn't buy the car to not put money into it. I love this car and I love tuning it and going through these processes. I believe, like most others here, to take a good idea and make it better. I have an image of what my car will be and I promise to make it happen even if it means doing the whole exhaust system again. There is more to gain, and I'm sure I will find it in the near future.
I, along with most others here, are trying to provide accurate information to save people like Frank the headache of trial and error. I hope his car ends up being a monster and he is happy with it. I, however, are not happy and will not be happy until I figure the exhaust system out and get the car running exactly has I want.
I didn't buy the car to not put money into it. I love this car and I love tuning it and going through these processes. I believe, like most others here, to take a good idea and make it better. I have an image of what my car will be and I promise to make it happen even if it means doing the whole exhaust system again. There is more to gain, and I'm sure I will find it in the near future.
and, i am also in agreement that there is more in this car...i am not going to be happy until i hit 400whp...it will happen one way or another
although i hope you hit 400whp first jerry, you have put a lot of time and research into the car, i am pulling for you
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,175
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From: Socal
EVE
Everything that I have done and the steps I have take are for everyone on the forum. What have you done? I bet money that when and if Frank adds headers, he will have the same issue that I have unless his map includes the exhaust mods, which I'm sure it doesn't. I dynoed between 347 (avg) and 352 (highest) with stage I software and pulleys only. Doesn't sound like Frank is eclipsing anything. I paid for the custom ECU, so it does not cost me anything to send it back for more tuning. I have also prepaid a set number of Dyno's, and I still have a few left, so why waste them?
I, along with most others here, are trying to provide accurate information to save people like Frank the headache of trial and error. I hope his car ends up being a monster and he is happy with it. I, however, are not happy and will not be happy until I figure the exhaust system out and get the car running exactly has I want.
I didn't buy the car to not put money into it. I love this car and I love tuning it and going through these processes. I believe, like most others here, to take a good idea and make it better. I have an image of what my car will be and I promise to make it happen even if it means doing the whole exhaust system again. There is more to gain, and I'm sure I will find it in the near future.
I, along with most others here, are trying to provide accurate information to save people like Frank the headache of trial and error. I hope his car ends up being a monster and he is happy with it. I, however, are not happy and will not be happy until I figure the exhaust system out and get the car running exactly has I want.
I didn't buy the car to not put money into it. I love this car and I love tuning it and going through these processes. I believe, like most others here, to take a good idea and make it better. I have an image of what my car will be and I promise to make it happen even if it means doing the whole exhaust system again. There is more to gain, and I'm sure I will find it in the near future.
). Such a learning process and we come out of it more knowledgable than we ever imagined.Then the money can never stop the will - and for that if your reasons are like mine, I respect. +1.
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Socal
EVE
Errrrr........
Someone must have labeled something incorrectly or those numbers aren't in fact adjusted for drivetrain loss - if that was crank hp, then this dyno is showing the car to have stock hp (which isn't really possible with the mods he has done - ODPS, filters, splitter, etc).
Interestingly, nick@jlevisw just started a thread showing hp gains on a C320 using the dynopack and those numbers are correct for that car.
Someone must have labeled something incorrectly or those numbers aren't in fact adjusted for drivetrain loss - if that was crank hp, then this dyno is showing the car to have stock hp (which isn't really possible with the mods he has done - ODPS, filters, splitter, etc).
Interestingly, nick@jlevisw just started a thread showing hp gains on a C320 using the dynopack and those numbers are correct for that car.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,194
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From: Diamond Bar & Anaheim, CA
2003 C-Class Sportcoupe
C32 guys, attaining 400rwhp on the C32 motor isn't going to happen by installing bolt on mods, exhaust, or just ECU tunes on an otherwise stock motor. Vadim has already done a lot more tuning on his C32 than most, and he has given his valuable explanation that the exhaust ports on the cylinder heads are too restrictive. Open up the exhaust port restriction on the cylinder head and throw in cams, and you'll get closer to that "eclipsing" 400rwhp mark.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,517
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From: Ohio
...
C32 guys, attaining 400rwhp on the C32 motor isn't going to happen by installing bolt on mods, exhaust, or just ECU tunes on an otherwise stock motor. Vadim has already done a lot more tuning on his C32 than most, and he has given his valuable explanation that the exhaust ports on the cylinder heads are too restrictive. Open up the exhaust port restriction on the cylinder head and throw in cams, and you'll get closer to that "eclipsing" 400rwhp mark.
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From: Diamond Bar & Anaheim, CA
2003 C-Class Sportcoupe
Insane BSP C32
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From: Ohio
...
The only person to break 400rwhp is Mohammed Ben Sulayem on his C32, to which he slapped on twin turbos on custom ported and polished cylinder heads from AMG. Only way to increase boost is a small turbo or NOS, since you can only change the size of the pullies by a small amount. If you haven't read this ancient article yet, it's quite insane.
Insane BSP C32
Insane BSP C32
Vadim, did get over the 400whp mark with more boost, but the clutch on the supercharger gave out...if there is a way to strengthen the clutch, then we could tune these car pretty easily...if i can ever get a hold of another supercharger, then i am going to explore this option...
i keep looking on ebay, but always end up just missing them...i am checking everyday now...unless someone knows where i can buy a supercharger for $1000 or less?
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 538
Likes: 2
From: Silicon valley
Audi C7.5 S6
Anything can be done with enough time and money;
Check this out, someone who designed their own W9 526HP (without turbo), 3L engine and built it, although outside help from a machine shop, and lots of simulations.
http://www.atomracing.se/6M.html
Whipple probably, has a blower that would work, but one would need a redesigned intercooler, clutch and manifold.
Porting heads and changing cams would be easier.
Check this out, someone who designed their own W9 526HP (without turbo), 3L engine and built it, although outside help from a machine shop, and lots of simulations.
http://www.atomracing.se/6M.html
Whipple probably, has a blower that would work, but one would need a redesigned intercooler, clutch and manifold.
Porting heads and changing cams would be easier.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,909
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From: Houston
C63S
yup, read it...too much work for not enough gain
Vadim, did get over the 400whp mark with more boost, but the clutch on the supercharger gave out...if there is a way to strengthen the clutch, then we could tune these car pretty easily...if i can ever get a hold of another supercharger, then i am going to explore this option...
i keep looking on ebay, but always end up just missing them...i am checking everyday now...unless someone knows where i can buy a supercharger for $1000 or less?
Vadim, did get over the 400whp mark with more boost, but the clutch on the supercharger gave out...if there is a way to strengthen the clutch, then we could tune these car pretty easily...if i can ever get a hold of another supercharger, then i am going to explore this option...
i keep looking on ebay, but always end up just missing them...i am checking everyday now...unless someone knows where i can buy a supercharger for $1000 or less?
I know where to buy a C32 motor that is complete with supercharger for $4500. I've been debating buying it in case I !@#$!%$ mine up.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,909
Likes: 130
From: Houston
C63S
C32 guys, attaining 400rwhp on the C32 motor isn't going to happen by installing bolt on mods, exhaust, or just ECU tunes on an otherwise stock motor. Vadim has already done a lot more tuning on his C32 than most, and he has given his valuable explanation that the exhaust ports on the cylinder heads are too restrictive. Open up the exhaust port restriction on the cylinder head and throw in cams, and you'll get closer to that "eclipsing" 400rwhp mark.
on this topic.I want my car to pull hard through the whole RPM range. I don't care if I end up with 355HP/355Trq again, as long as the power is there at any speed. I would like my HP & Trq numbers to be close to one another. I also want my car to sound good. I think it makes me appreciate the car more when it sounds bad ***. I stopped street tuning a long time ago, because I would always think I had more power than I actually did. I went to blockbuster the other day and I was followed there by two guys in an Evo. I got out went inside and noticed that they were taking pics of my car. They came inside just to tell me they thought my car sounded awesome and to ask questions about it.
How long do you think our car would last with 400Whp? I don't suspect it would make it to the mid 100's.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 1
From: Chicago
04 C32
Agreed... I feel like we are on this topic.
I want my car to pull hard through the whole RPM range. I don't care if I end up with 355HP/355Trq again, as long as the power is there at any speed. I would like my HP & Trq numbers to be close to one another. I also want my car to sound good. I think it makes me appreciate the car more when it sounds bad ***. I stopped street tuning a long time ago, because I would always think I had more power than I actually did. I went to blockbuster the other day and I was followed there by two guys in an Evo. I got out went inside and noticed that they were taking pics of my car. They came inside just to tell me they thought my car sounded awesome and to ask questions about it.
How long do you think our car would last with 400Whp? I don't suspect it would make it to the mid 100's.
on this topic.I want my car to pull hard through the whole RPM range. I don't care if I end up with 355HP/355Trq again, as long as the power is there at any speed. I would like my HP & Trq numbers to be close to one another. I also want my car to sound good. I think it makes me appreciate the car more when it sounds bad ***. I stopped street tuning a long time ago, because I would always think I had more power than I actually did. I went to blockbuster the other day and I was followed there by two guys in an Evo. I got out went inside and noticed that they were taking pics of my car. They came inside just to tell me they thought my car sounded awesome and to ask questions about it.
How long do you think our car would last with 400Whp? I don't suspect it would make it to the mid 100's.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,194
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From: Diamond Bar & Anaheim, CA
2003 C-Class Sportcoupe
Damn, that's a steal. I think it's too much work to twincharge the C32 by adding twin turbos and intercoolers. I've been thinking of NOS or maybe twincharging with a small centrifugal supercharger to increase the boost at the last 2000 rpm, just like BSP did by adding the turbos and turning off the clutch on the twin screw supercharger. You still need to open up the motor and let it breathe before increasing the boost, otherwise, all your doing is increasing heat. Centrifugal superchargers are more efficent at creating boost at higher RPMs, so that's good. These are all hypothetical wishful thinking for me.
Thread Starter
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Posts: 22,058
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Agreed... I feel like we are on this topic.
I want my car to pull hard through the whole RPM range. I don't care if I end up with 355HP/355Trq again, as long as the power is there at any speed. I would like my HP & Trq numbers to be close to one another. I also want my car to sound good. I think it makes me appreciate the car more when it sounds bad ***. I stopped street tuning a long time ago, because I would always think I had more power than I actually did. I went to blockbuster the other day and I was followed there by two guys in an Evo. I got out went inside and noticed that they were taking pics of my car. They came inside just to tell me they thought my car sounded awesome and to ask questions about it.
How long do you think our car would last with 400Whp? I don't suspect it would make it to the mid 100's.
on this topic.I want my car to pull hard through the whole RPM range. I don't care if I end up with 355HP/355Trq again, as long as the power is there at any speed. I would like my HP & Trq numbers to be close to one another. I also want my car to sound good. I think it makes me appreciate the car more when it sounds bad ***. I stopped street tuning a long time ago, because I would always think I had more power than I actually did. I went to blockbuster the other day and I was followed there by two guys in an Evo. I got out went inside and noticed that they were taking pics of my car. They came inside just to tell me they thought my car sounded awesome and to ask questions about it.
How long do you think our car would last with 400Whp? I don't suspect it would make it to the mid 100's.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,517
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From: Ohio
...
well, as soon as i get a hold of the supercharger, then i am going to see if i can fix this clutch problem, if i can do that, then we will be able to crank some more boost out of this thing yet...
