CynCarvin32

Yes it is a very late apex corner. You pretty much wait until you think it is to late to make it down for the apex before you make your turn in. If you do that you can set the car, get the nose pointing down and out of the corner and then get on the gas pretty hard as you come down to that apex.

Its a turn you learn to take at 70, then at 75, then at 80, and then at 85 etc. I can come through the corner at about 85 and be at 110 by the time I hit the end of the pit enterence. This corner makes a LSD a must since it has very high g loading and leads right onto the front straight.

But if you get it wrong it can be bad since you normally end up going off into the dirt -- which leads to a nice hard cinder block wall!

I would love to post a video of a nice lap but I seem to forget how to download the footage from the handi cam! I will figure it out one of these days! Seeing the line and the track often helps.

AWDman

that's funny cos a STI also lost it last event at lime rock...on the downhill, went wide then shot back across track into the tire wall. messed up his car pretty bad.

honestly i've never had a chip from a track day - i can pretty much tell you where every single one is on my car.....i do have the clear bra and that prob has saved me some on the road.......but on the track if you're not following too closely it's impossible to get a chip infront unless the rock is going to levitate by supernatural forces up into the air. the inside wheel wells and lower rocker panels should be protected tho......and yes i did get a cracked windshield was rock on a road trip.....i have learnt to stay far far away from construction vehicles, trucks anything that may be shedding debris......if i have to pass then it's at 100mph!!!


going back to costs.....i've gone through 1.5 sets of front brake pads, 1 set of front dot r compounds. i did 7 events last yr including one memorable open track event when i went through 2 tanks of gas. the total track time for the 7 events was approx 9 hrs. i can live with that....but this year i intend to take part in events that give me more track time....hopefully 10 events 25 hrs track time. prob will need 3 set of front tires, 3 sets of brakes. worth it for me tho!!!! most fun i can have with my clothes on!!

do you guys have comparative times posted somewhere? are these time trial events you attend/ would be nice to see how fellow c32'er hold up against the stis, evos, m3s etc....

Fifth Ring

I've never had a chip from a track day either. I've put a thick, clear plastic guard over my headlights.

I don't see how track days can make that much difference to the car's finish. Going 100 MPH for 3 hours on a track is nothing compared to going 50 MPH for 300 hours each year on the streets (with road sand, salt and truck debris). You will get rubber chunks from the R compound tires (some one else's!) but that's easily removed.

Once you learn to change your own brake pads, the cost of track days comes WAY down. You can't have more fun for the money.

From what I've seen, the WRX and Evo crowd is most likely to bend sheet metal. They are younger and perhaps less worried about going home in one piece. At Audi events, there are precious few incidents EXCEPT in the highest run groups, where there is usually some dust up. One year it was the Porsche Carrera GT hitting a tire wall, and another year a supercharged Mustang had an off and actually rolled.

Watching the 24 Hours at Daytona, they described the cars and noted that the Daytona Prototypes run about 500 HP; and the GT classes run similar or less. You will find people at driving events with MORE horsepower than that, in cars that do not have a roll cage, do not have full racing belts, the drivers do not wear fire suits, and these land rockets are not piloted by a professional! Street cars have gotten stupid-fast, and they are hitting straightaway speeds that are downright deadly without a cage. I'm waiting for clubs to clamp down. You have a 125 HP Miata on track with a 600HP Corvette. Even in a controlled situation, it's risky. I think brake and tire technology have improved, but not enough to compensate for the insane speeds being run.

AWDman

you can even change your own rotors too!

fifth hope we can run some this yr with http://www.chinmotorsports.com
quite a few events at VIR. i've booked vaction time already for the barber motorsports event...wow what a track!

mid april i'll be back trying to drum some c32 interest in the emra or cart track day early may at pocono.

hope the drag racing guys can come experience thrills not 12 secs at a time but 20 mins...........

Zeppelin

Wow, you should have CynCarvin32 drive your car, he would cord a front tire in 3 - 20 minute sessions

CynCarvin32

WOW!

Not sure if that an insult or a complement?!?!?

Well, to be honest, tire wear is now really even on SMG's car. It went through 8-9 sessions, 3 tanks of gas, and a whole days driving with only say 1/2 tread wear.

So looking at it from the stand point that most drivers will do 4 30 minute sessions the front tires will now last 4 track events.

You know all to well that, for us, thats really great tire wear!

That last allignment adjustment really brought tire wear into line.

Fifth Ring

It looks like I'm going to do VIR with the Audi Club in April (23-24), and then I'm going to try out the MB Club "tri-o-rama" which seems to include some mildly competitive stuff. Acceleration, autocross and hot laps. It's scheduled to be at Summit Point in September.

Zeppelin

CynCarvin32,

You are talking about a heavily modified car, not a stock C32 that most are using on the track. A stock C32 will still cord the outside edge of a front tire in no time flat. (pun intended)

AWDman

indeed, i very nearly destroyed my ps2s on my 1st outing. i researched tires extensively and on my 2nd track day was running DOT R compound in the front.

take a look at what i run. pay attention to the shape of the outer tread block and how they wrap to sidewall. this works very very well in a camber challenged car.

http://www.yokohamatire.com/TireIntro.asp?TireID=60
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/BigPic...del=ADVAN+A048

down side is the compound....it's not a hoosier r6 or sport cup or ventus z214however i plan to track claw them before the season starts in an effort to improve ultimate grip.

AWDman

Zep-what engine mods and how are they standing up to track use???

AWDman

COMS has a watkins glen event 4/23-24 ....i would have loved to attend but i return from vacation that weekend and have to be back to work.

i have 3 opportunities to get to VIR this yr with chin motorsports. 3.5 hrs track time a day for $200-250 is a good deal. i'll keep you posted.

AWDman

here's report on the cart pocono relay i mentioned. this was the open track event i did. i didn't take part as i had a late spin and jammed rocks between my rim and tires. we have a c32 and a c55 for the may event. i'm sure the organizers will allow and all amg team.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
The team relays just keep growing and growing. We run five driver teams, with each driver running five laps. The team start is handicapped by total team time so that all the teams have a theoretical chance of winning. The wild card in the event is counting to five while trying to turn laps faster than your timed run. Six teams were entered in the final round.

First to start was Team Subaru's Chris Ercole in his G35. Twenty five seconds Mixed Nuts sent Nick Fandacone and the 350Z out to play. Nineteen seconds gone, and it was Bill Buff driving a Mini for Team Porsche. O.K. so we're not strict on what cars join what team, it's all good fun. Five seconds after Bill, it was Dana Robbins in the Silver Flash for Team Fiero. Eleven seconds after, Gary Shank leapt off the line for all-Vette Team Corvette. Twenty seconds later, in a haze of rubber smoke, it was Travis Lariviere and Team Honda's start to the event.

Driving his car like the payment book was just a memory, Nick Fandacone passed Chris Ercole for the lead and began to move away. Back in the pack Bill Buff was able to hold the Dana Robbins behind him to fourth, with Gary Shenk and Travis Lariviere running hard. Nick runs hard enough to build a very strong lead, actually lapping a competitor.

Nick completes his five laps, and hands the lead to Joe Solury and his Corvette. Chris Ercole comes across the line to hand off to Jerry Jones in his STI. John Santos in the Factory Five Cobra takes over for Bill Buff, Chris Zelle and the MR2 does the same for Dana Robbins, John Vecero replaces Gary Shenk for Team Corvette, and finally Chip Rutan's Integra goes out for Team Honda. Joe Solury continues Nick's effort for the Mixed Nuts, and holds a strong lead.

Despite everyone's best efforts, the positions are basically unchanged after ten laps. It's Mixed Nuts, Subaru, Porsche, Fiero, Corvette, and Honda. Paul Omichinski (Porsche 924) takes over from Joe Solury followed by Lam Nguyen in an Infiniti G35, Joe Nagle starts for Team Porsche in his 996 and passes Mike Gosch now driving for Team Corvette. Gary Frankel is now the wheel man for the Fiero's and Duane Lariviere is handling the Honda duties. This round was definitely the action round. Joe Nagle passes Mike Gosch for position, but then throws it all away by only running four laps. Mike Gosch does it differently, and runs six laps, which does no one any good. Paul Omichinski and Gary Frankel lined up for a repeat of the last relay's battle. They entered the banking with a paint job and a prayer separating them. Gary graciously yielded to the inevitable, and waved as Paul passed by. Duane Lariviere made up a lot of ground for Honda, as he caught Gary and Paul, but was unable to pass them.

Fifteen laps, and the running order is Mixed Nuts, Subaru, Fiero, Honda, Corvette and Porsche. The mix up in the lap count was hurting Corvette and Porsche. Joe Skibisky (Mustang) took over the fourth stint for the Mixed Nuts, Mike McInerney (STI) was up for Team Subaru, Bill Evans was in the Silver Flash for Team Fiero, Matt Koestner (Civic) was driving for Team Honda, Rich Oppermann (Corvette) was in for Team Corvette, and Tom Casey (Porsche 944) had the Team Porsche entry. Joe Skibisky was passed by Joe Nagle before he ended his driving stint, but it was only for track position, not a place. Mike McInerney stalked Rich Opperman and got by, but then threw it away with a four lap run. It sounds easy, but it really isn't, trust me. Bill Evans almost made to the end when the Flash came up half a lap short on gas, and Matt Koestner was able to cruise on by. Rich Opperman ran hard to try to set up for the final run as Joe Skibisky was passed by Tom Casey, but again, it was for track position, not running order.

Twenty laps and setting up for the end, and it was: Mixed Nuts, Honda, Fiero, Corvette, Subaru, Porsche. Jim Duphiney (Integra) leads off for Mixed Nuts, followed by Dan Oricchio's overheating M3 for Team Honda, Tom Mak (350Z) pedaling as hard as he could for Team Fiero, Jim Roberts (Corvette) for Team Corvette, Steve Carley (STI) for Team Subaru, and Phil Casey (Porsche 924S) driving for Team Porsche. Jim Duphiney motored around as the large lead for the Mixed Nuts slowly became a small lead, but despite Tom Mak passing three cars, Jim Roberts passing two, Dan Oricchio praying to the coolant gods, and Steve Carley and Phil Casey doing everything but afterburners, the final was Mixed Nuts, Honda, Fiero, Corvette, Subaru and Porsche.

Twenty laps and setting up for the end, and it was: Mixed Nuts, Honda, Fiero, Corvette, Subaru, Porsche. Jim Duphiney (Integra) leads off for Mixed Nuts, followed by Dan Oricchio's overheating M3 for Team Honda, Tom Mak (350Z) pedaling as hard as he could for Team Fiero, Jim Roberts (Corvette) for Team Corvette, Steve Carley (STI) for Team Subaru, and Phil Casey (Porsche 924S) driving for Team Porsche. Jim Duphiney motored around as the large lead for the Mixed Nuts slowly became a small lead, but despite Tom Mak passing three cars, Jim Roberts passing two, Dan Oricchio praying to the coolant gods, and Steve Carley and Phil Casey doing everything but afterburners, the final was Mixed Nuts, Honda, Fiero, Corvette, Subaru and Porsche.

Special thanks to Bill Evans for keeping track of the action during the relay event.

Fifth Ring

You are a braver man than I (by far). You would never catch me running door-to-door competition in the daily driver , particularly without a roll cage , harnesses , fire suppression equipment or a fire suit.

Looks like you are ready to move into a sanctioned competition (NASA/SCCA) structure. I've been talking to a buddy who does this (running Spec Racer Fords and a Spec RX7). Race prepped cars are cheaper than you think, and then you trade your Benz for a Ford F150 tow vehicle.

AWDman

uh those guys embellished the write up some....it was still a time trial- no passing save on the straight. definitey no wheel to wheel. (note the staggered start that strings out cars). i would not be a participant if that was the case just too much risk.

Fifth Ring

Good writing!

Zeppelin

Not to mentioned these timed events are no longer cosidered driver education by an insurance company and you would be on your own in the event of an accident.

Zeppelin

ODPS
ECU
Seperated intercooler circuit

I have had no issues with my car other than the airpump and turn-signal issue. I have only taken it to the dealer once in it's life for the first Service A. I usually run just 91 pump gas unless it is going to be 105 degrees or up and then I run a mixture of some 100 octane.

Fifth Ring

I've heard that it's not easy to get insurance coverage even for the "HPDE" events.

wawy

Are Falkin Azenis 615's that bad? I was thinking of trying some this spring.....
The article I read here seems to suggest they are ok:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ima...5_tiretest.pdf

Fifth Ring

I've heard excellent reviews and terrible reviews. I guess the question is, how do they rate in comparison to other street tires when used on-track. Any street tire will be less sticky than an R-compound.

It's hard to argue with Grassroots Motorsports. They're not hacks. The one "weakness" in that article is that it does seem to focus on autocross use, which emphasizes a tire's cold grip. The article even notes that the 615 had problems when overheated.

I'm not sold on the 615s, particularly for track use (and I don't autocross).

OPM

Thanks to Grassroots and that awesome ad with BMW 2002, Nitto NT-01 is a new darling tire. Everybody and their grandmother bought them. I have nothing against NT01, but how can anybody compare them to 615? Apples vs. oranges anyone? BTW calling 615 junk is just unreasonable. It’s the highest performing street tire available.

I also can vouch for SCDA (www.scda1.com). The whole Prout family is awesome and they run some of the best events in NE. I highly recommend them. Below are some helpful links for those of you contemplating joining in the fun.

http://www.trackschedule.com/sched.html
http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/RoadCourses.html

Not true. Last season at WG a 325 was put on its roof, last even this season an Evo8 ripped its undercarriage and destroyed rims. I also have seen cars collide at Audi events. At the same time I know people who have been to few dozen events without ever spinning out. Bottom line, no matter how well the event is run, once in awhile someone out of 100+ drivers makes a mistake. It is as simple as that, and there is no evidence that it is age or car type related.

Again, I totally disagree. A greater mix of cars makes the event better for all involved. If you are put in proper run group – some cars will pass you and some will be passed by you. Passing always takes place on a straightaway with a pointby. Thus, it is safe for the faster cars to flyby the slower ones. 600hp do not help you enter or exit corner; at least not enough to make it dangerous for those driving 125hp car. However, some clubs, including Audi, control tire use for non-solo participants.

I have no idea how you guys calculate expenditure of brakes, tires, etc. But the truth is, it depends on the track, driving style and specific products used. For example, braking very late in the corner at NHIS I destroyed a set of DS3000 in 1 event. With better braking techniques and PFC01 I can go through 3 to 4 events. At Mt Tremblant I can probable do 8+ events.

CynCarvin32

Well if you like your Falkins you can take this last set of 245/275's off my hands as they are useless in anything over say 50 degrees ambient temperature.

I can say of all the tires I have ever used for track driving the 615 is by far the worst. After 3 hard laps it is as greasy as a In and Out burger. I was marke slower at the end of a session and I felt as if I were driving on ice.

If thats a the best the street tire world has to offer its a very sad day. I can say toyo T-1S was better as were PSII's. The best so far grip wise was the Pirelli Corsa but it fell apart in 1 session because we used it on a car with almost no negative camber and that tires just hats that condition.

I have not tried the NT-01 but I hear its the US spec replacement for a RA-1. If it lasts like an RA-1 and has equal grip it should be an amazing tire. The toyo rep said the NT-01 has a similar tread compound but a more advanced structure and that gives it better steering feel and feedback.

BlackC230Coupe

Nice! looks like a lot of fun!

Is that a Viper GTS i see in the first pic?

CynCarvin32

On the topic of having fast and slow cars on track at the same time, I will have to say a miata and a 600 hp vett are just fine together on the track. I drive a E36 BMW and a C32 at the track and both have fairly close lap times and I never feel scared fo the full race cars blowing past me in the red group.

I know its open passing and I just let them all by regardless of where I am on the track. If I see them come up in the middle of a long sweeper I just move to a side and give the car a point by. I know they hate being held up so let them by as quickly as possible.

The red group has a rule that you can not pass any car with a "X" on its rear window without a point by. I don't put an "X" on my car and I still feel completely safe as these guys normally are very skilled and capable of making a pass on a slow moving car.

I almost feel that if you can not take the stress of the open passing rule you should not be out on track. The blue and yellow groups are restricted in passing but those clowns have no idea how to drive so the advanced group is where you should be.

AWDman

toyo has a new dot r compound not yet available in usa. it looks like the advan a048. http://www.toyojapan.com/new_tires/p...roxes_r888.pdf

in terms of a great gripping tire that can take 40+ heat cycles tire rack is sold on the cup sports. my friend who tracks his c55 corded his after 8 events. has to do with the very square sidewall i think.