Brembo vs. Rotora Brake Kit
03-01-2007, 12:44 AM
#26
Well I can extend an invitation to come ride in the car for a few laps. The brakes are so strong you just about have your eye ***** pop out. The C32 brakes honestly are NOTHING compared to a set of Stoptech brakes. I put C32 brakes on my now gone C230k daily driver and it was still no where near as powerful at stopping as a C32 with 4 wheel stoptechs. The C32 is 3600+ lbs and a C230k is 3178 lbs. So with 500 fewer pounds the C32 kit was still not as powerful as a Stoptech kit. Granted it was a huge step up from what the car came with -- those I killed on my first aggressive drive when I went to see how the C230k handled compared to a AMG car.
I hate bling bling and I cant say I dont care if the brakes look good. These were purchased as a way to make the car suited for serious track use and without them we could not use it the way we do. There would be no hope at all IMHO.
We all drive a bit differently and adjusting your driving so that you brake 20 ft sooner and a bit less firm makes the need for a bbk far less noticeable. When you really try to extract the last bit from the car the factory brakes are not enough. I can say I have destroyed many OEM brake kits at the track!
I hate bling bling and I cant say I dont care if the brakes look good. These were purchased as a way to make the car suited for serious track use and without them we could not use it the way we do. There would be no hope at all IMHO.
We all drive a bit differently and adjusting your driving so that you brake 20 ft sooner and a bit less firm makes the need for a bbk far less noticeable. When you really try to extract the last bit from the car the factory brakes are not enough. I can say I have destroyed many OEM brake kits at the track!
i have to agree with you...i just have stoptechs on the front and it is a night and day difference...
i would like to get the rear setup at some point as well, as i think this would be a fun car to autocross...
03-01-2007, 01:29 AM
#27
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Are the Stoptech brake lines braided? Does it matter if they are or not?
03-01-2007, 11:51 AM
#29
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C32 AMG
Well I can extend an invitation to come ride in the car for a few laps. The brakes are so strong you just about have your eye ***** pop out. The C32 brakes honestly are NOTHING compared to a set of Stoptech brakes.
We all drive a bit differently and adjusting your driving so that you brake 20 ft sooner and a bit less firm makes the need for a bbk far less noticeable. When you really try to extract the last bit from the car the factory brakes are not enough. I can say I have destroyed many OEM brake kits at the track!
We all drive a bit differently and adjusting your driving so that you brake 20 ft sooner and a bit less firm makes the need for a bbk far less noticeable. When you really try to extract the last bit from the car the factory brakes are not enough. I can say I have destroyed many OEM brake kits at the track!
To really know the difference, you'd need to do a back-to-back test with identical pads on the same car, same tires and under the same conditions, and test stopping distances.
The only data of that quality that I've ever seen (http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm) shows that big brakes provide a little benefit in stopping power (2 or 3 feet, all other things being equal), but they provide a great deal of benefit in temperature control. Rotor temps are MUCH lower as rotor size increases. That comes into play if/when the heat gets high enough to cause fade.
03-01-2007, 01:41 PM
#30
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I'll take your word on it. Given the way I use my car (361 days/year on the street averaging 25 MPH in traffic(!) and 4 days driving like a nut job on the track) the AMG brakes have been great. Good brakes are about stopping and NOT acting up (vibrations, overheating, etc.). So it's possible that I could be stopping more quickly with StopTechs, but I'm certainly not experiencing any problems either. So do I spend a couple thousand bucks to make those 4 days more fun? Maybe reducing the weight of your wallet helps with stopping power!
To really know the difference, you'd need to do a back-to-back test with identical pads on the same car, same tires and under the same conditions, and test stopping distances.
The only data of that quality that I've ever seen (http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm) shows that big brakes provide a little benefit in stopping power (2 or 3 feet, all other things being equal), but they provide a great deal of benefit in temperature control. Rotor temps are MUCH lower as rotor size increases. That comes into play if/when the heat gets high enough to cause fade.
To really know the difference, you'd need to do a back-to-back test with identical pads on the same car, same tires and under the same conditions, and test stopping distances.
The only data of that quality that I've ever seen (http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm) shows that big brakes provide a little benefit in stopping power (2 or 3 feet, all other things being equal), but they provide a great deal of benefit in temperature control. Rotor temps are MUCH lower as rotor size increases. That comes into play if/when the heat gets high enough to cause fade.
From where I stand half the fun of driving is how the car feels and going for the brake it improves the brake feel to such an extent that its worth the upgrade. If its coming down to justifying each upgrade with its cost on the bottom line nothing is worth it as a stock car will still get around the track just fine. It just wont stop, turn and go like an upgraded car. Parts for making big powre really are the last thing this car needs. Power is great stock and anything beyond a pulley and chip is just crazy at the track. Plus you just end up needing to upgrade the cooling system since the pullied car cant shed heat quick enough for hard track use.
03-01-2007, 01:44 PM
#31
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I noticed on EVOSPORT's website that the AMG brake lines are $249 and BRAIDED steel lines while the Brembos and Rotora brake lines are NOT braided and cost only $59. This leads me to think that the SOME of the AMG brake components are even better than aftermarket Big Brake Kits.
Are the Stoptech brake lines braided? Does it matter if they are or not?
Are the Stoptech brake lines braided? Does it matter if they are or not?
03-01-2007, 01:50 PM
#32
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I'll take your word on it. Given the way I use my car (361 days/year on the street averaging 25 MPH in traffic(!) and 4 days driving like a nut job on the track) the AMG brakes have been great. Good brakes are about stopping and NOT acting up (vibrations, overheating, etc.). So it's possible that I could be stopping more quickly with StopTechs, but I'm certainly not experiencing any problems either. So do I spend a couple thousand bucks to make those 4 days more fun? Maybe reducing the weight of your wallet helps with stopping power!
To really know the difference, you'd need to do a back-to-back test with identical pads on the same car, same tires and under the same conditions, and test stopping distances.
The only data of that quality that I've ever seen (http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm) shows that big brakes provide a little benefit in stopping power (2 or 3 feet, all other things being equal), but they provide a great deal of benefit in temperature control. Rotor temps are MUCH lower as rotor size increases. That comes into play if/when the heat gets high enough to cause fade.
To really know the difference, you'd need to do a back-to-back test with identical pads on the same car, same tires and under the same conditions, and test stopping distances.
The only data of that quality that I've ever seen (http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm) shows that big brakes provide a little benefit in stopping power (2 or 3 feet, all other things being equal), but they provide a great deal of benefit in temperature control. Rotor temps are MUCH lower as rotor size increases. That comes into play if/when the heat gets high enough to cause fade.
Back to back testing will likely say exactly what you posted. 3-5 ft shorter with the kit (with street pads) and much lower brake temps compared to stock.
Add a set of racing tires to the car and the distances will fall even more between the stock and upgraded brakes simply because the racing tires when warm have so much more grip that they can actually use the extra stopping power to slow the car and not just locking up the tires. In the oposite direction adding race tires to the stock brakes puts even more stress of the system because it now has the ability to actually use the stopping power and that makes more heat that the oem kit can shed. All in all the oem brakes will end up smokin and likely on fire. Pads should not be on fire after a session and I have done that to many oem kits!
03-01-2007, 03:35 PM
#33
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C32 AMG
I know we've been down this road before, but you seem to have had serious problems with brake pads on your OEM setup. I've run my OEM rotors with EBC RedStuff ceramic pads to over 700 degrees (as measured after a cool down lap) with no pad smoking or deterioration of braking power. I run street tires, so I'm not putting the same strain, but I am running on "legit" race courses in 20 minute stints without incident.
03-02-2007, 12:08 AM
#34
We consistantly see temperatures over 1,000 degrees as measured by two seperate pyrometers after we get into the pits. This means that under braking we are at least several hundred degrees hotter at threshold breaking. Spring mountain was especially abusive to breaks. Our BMW, which never has overheating issues with race pads, could have smoked a whole pig after a few sessions. We run 30 minute back to back sessions, so the car sees 55+ minutes every hour for a minumum total of 10 run group sessions. All road courses are different and some "legit" racetracks are very easy on brakes and some are not. It all depends on where you track your car and how fast you drive. Most track event participants don't drive their cars at 10/10th. It is typical to see an average of 7-8/10th as a maximum. At this pace, most modifications don't show their true potential. Stock brakes on the C32 will fail if driven consistantly at the limit of the car's capabilities, period. I thought as you do, that the stock brakes were fine; large rotors, 4 piston calipers, how can these be bad. Then I drove the canyons a few times and a track event at the car's limit, and it was immediatly obvious that better brakes and pads were in order. Have you ever seen your pads catch on fire? It is quite the specticle. Other C32 owners that have heavily tracked their C32 have experienced cracked rotors and chunked pads.
Racing brakes and pads do not stop the car in shorter distances,especially for single brake events. What they do do, is provide more consistant braking under repeat conditions without fading as much. With enough force, you can make any race brake system fade. You are limited in braking to the tire's adhesion. The better the tire, the better the braking. The new Nitto NT-01's are awsome and are the best tire we have driven so far. We run Pagid Black race pads with titanium backing plates and RBF 600 fluid.
Stoptech provides steel lines because this is what customer's want. steel lines do not stop the car any better, but only provide a firmer feel to the brakes. Our BMW race car uses stock rubber lines because they are more reliable. Steel lines are more brittle and less flexable, including their fitting and are know to break more frequently.
Come and drive our car anytime you are in the area.
Racing brakes and pads do not stop the car in shorter distances,especially for single brake events. What they do do, is provide more consistant braking under repeat conditions without fading as much. With enough force, you can make any race brake system fade. You are limited in braking to the tire's adhesion. The better the tire, the better the braking. The new Nitto NT-01's are awsome and are the best tire we have driven so far. We run Pagid Black race pads with titanium backing plates and RBF 600 fluid.
Stoptech provides steel lines because this is what customer's want. steel lines do not stop the car any better, but only provide a firmer feel to the brakes. Our BMW race car uses stock rubber lines because they are more reliable. Steel lines are more brittle and less flexable, including their fitting and are know to break more frequently.
Come and drive our car anytime you are in the area.
03-02-2007, 08:57 AM
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C32 AMG
All road courses are different and some "legit" racetracks are very easy on brakes and some are not. It all depends on where you track your car and how fast you drive. Most track event participants don't drive their cars at 10/10th. It is typical to see an average of 7-8/10th as a maximum. At this pace, most modifications don't show their true potential. Stock brakes on the C32 will fail if driven consistantly at the limit of the car's capabilities, period. I thought as you do, that the stock brakes were fine; large rotors, 4 piston calipers, how can these be bad. Then I drove the canyons a few times and a track event at the car's limit, and it was immediatly obvious that better brakes and pads were in order. Have you ever seen your pads catch on fire? It is quite the specticle. Other C32 owners that have heavily tracked their C32 have experienced cracked rotors and chunked pads.
Racing brakes and pads do not stop the car in shorter distances,especially for single brake events. What they do do, is provide more consistant braking under repeat conditions without fading as much. With enough force, you can make any race brake system fade. You are limited in braking to the tire's adhesion. The better the tire, the better the braking. The new Nitto NT-01's are awsome and are the best tire we have driven so far. We run Pagid Black race pads with titanium backing plates and RBF 600 fluid.
Stoptech provides steel lines because this is what customer's want. steel lines do not stop the car any better, but only provide a firmer feel to the brakes. Our BMW race car uses stock rubber lines because they are more reliable. Steel lines are more brittle and less flexable, including their fitting and are know to break more frequently.
Come and drive our car anytime you are in the area.
Racing brakes and pads do not stop the car in shorter distances,especially for single brake events. What they do do, is provide more consistant braking under repeat conditions without fading as much. With enough force, you can make any race brake system fade. You are limited in braking to the tire's adhesion. The better the tire, the better the braking. The new Nitto NT-01's are awsome and are the best tire we have driven so far. We run Pagid Black race pads with titanium backing plates and RBF 600 fluid.
Stoptech provides steel lines because this is what customer's want. steel lines do not stop the car any better, but only provide a firmer feel to the brakes. Our BMW race car uses stock rubber lines because they are more reliable. Steel lines are more brittle and less flexable, including their fitting and are know to break more frequently.
Come and drive our car anytime you are in the area.
Last edited by Fifth Ring; 03-02-2007 at 09:00 AM.
03-02-2007, 07:34 PM
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03.C32T_model AMG GmbH & 05.C55 AMG GmbH
I use AP Racing. F: 6 piston(CP7040) .R: 4 piston(CP4296 Water Cooled Balanced Braking Kit for BTCC). The weight is extremely light.
F: 6 piston.362mmx34
R: 4 piston.356mmx32
Pads:F:PAGID RS
R:MINTEX 1166
F: 6 piston.362mmx34
R: 4 piston.356mmx32
Pads:F:PAGID RS
R:MINTEX 1166
03-03-2007, 01:15 AM
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S600TT, R350
Why are we all worked up about braking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To brake fast, one has to go fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At this time I do not see this as being an accomplishment for this particular C55.................!
Common Rob!!!
Show us that you can go fast.....................
We are all good at making you slow down, but you got to be at speed first...
Call Kleemann............. and ask for Cory.....
To brake fast, one has to go fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At this time I do not see this as being an accomplishment for this particular C55.................!
Common Rob!!!
Show us that you can go fast.....................
We are all good at making you slow down, but you got to be at speed first...
Call Kleemann............. and ask for Cory.....
03-03-2007, 02:15 AM
#39
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Brembo GTR 6P front/4P back = $5,500
Stoptech 6P front/4P back = $4, 595
Rotora 6P front/4P back = $4,157
AP Racing $??. I can't find any application guides for W203
03-03-2007, 02:20 AM
#40
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2006 Weistec 3.0L SC'd C55, 2006 MaxPsi PT6466 Turbo'd M3, 2019 Maserati GTS , 2020Alfa Quadrifoglio
Why are we all worked up about braking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To brake fast, one has to go fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At this time I do not see this as being an accomplishment for this particular C55.................!
Common Rob!!!
Show us that you can go fast.....................
We are all good at making you slow down, but you got to be at speed first...
Call Kleemann............. and ask for Cory.....
To brake fast, one has to go fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
At this time I do not see this as being an accomplishment for this particular C55.................!
Common Rob!!!
Show us that you can go fast.....................
We are all good at making you slow down, but you got to be at speed first...
Call Kleemann............. and ask for Cory.....
03-03-2007, 09:52 AM
#41
Random Question:
Does anyone know where i can get just the rear 4pot Stoptech brake kit?
everywhere i look online seems to have the front and rear as a package only, and i already have the front...
Does anyone know where i can get just the rear 4pot Stoptech brake kit?
everywhere i look online seems to have the front and rear as a package only, and i already have the front...
11-03-2010, 09:05 PM
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CLK63 Black, E350 Wagon, Supercharged Denali, Lotus Elise, Tesla Model 3 Dual-Motor.
I have installed a complete Rotora big brake front and rear kit on my C55.
They are nice to work with and I can now stop as well as my CLK63 BS, maybe even a little better.
Jim
They are nice to work with and I can now stop as well as my CLK63 BS, maybe even a little better.
Jim
