Progressive Dyno Results
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Marc may be saying to upgrade your battery because of the underdrivepulleys. I am told that underdrive pulleys can have an adverse affect on the Alternator and batttery output. I see it on my Eagle Talon when the lights get dim at idle and get brighter when I step on the gas. Both the Alternator and battery are fairly new.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
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From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
PS I called you months bac to invite you to Captree or one of the AMG/BMW runs we had upstate, and I left a message,but just like a Lawyer,they never return your calls!
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 197
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From: Houston, TX
2005 C55 AMG
Regarding underdrive pulleys, I can say this from my own experience --- DON'T get one for the alternator! There is virtually NO gain in changing a pulley with that small of a diameter, and it almost always leads to electrical system issues. IMO it's just not worth the risk, nor the expense. I'd bet on a dyno you'd see less than 1 hp difference, which is virtually a wash. You'd pick up as much by emptying the trunk...
Anything I've ever run an underdrive alternator pulley on --- I took them back off per the adverse affects. You certainly shouldn't have to buy a better battery to compensate for a lack in the alternator's charging ability. And remember, once the car is running, you are no longer being powered by the battery. The alternator is doing all the work at that point.
I would however recommend an Optima for anyone who's willing to pay the extra cost, as they are a much better design and more durable than any standard OE style replacement. More starting power via CCA ratings. And they won't ever leak. A good choice for sure!
Anything I've ever run an underdrive alternator pulley on --- I took them back off per the adverse affects. You certainly shouldn't have to buy a better battery to compensate for a lack in the alternator's charging ability. And remember, once the car is running, you are no longer being powered by the battery. The alternator is doing all the work at that point.
I would however recommend an Optima for anyone who's willing to pay the extra cost, as they are a much better design and more durable than any standard OE style replacement. More starting power via CCA ratings. And they won't ever leak. A good choice for sure!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 5
From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Regarding underdrive pulleys, I can say this from my own experience --- DON'T get one for the alternator! There is virtually NO gain in changing a pulley with that small of a diameter, and it almost always leads to electrical system issues. IMO it's just not worth the risk, nor the expense. I'd bet on a dyno you'd see less than 1 hp difference, which is virtually a wash. You'd pick up as much by emptying the trunk...
Anything I've ever run an underdrive alternator pulley on --- I took them back off per the adverse affects. You certainly shouldn't have to buy a better battery to compensate for a lack in the alternator's charging ability. And remember, once the car is running, you are no longer being powered by the battery. The alternator is doing all the work at that point.
I would however recommend an Optima for anyone who's willing to pay the extra cost, as they are a much better design and more durable than any standard OE style replacement. More starting power via CCA ratings. And they won't ever leak. A good choice for sure!
Anything I've ever run an underdrive alternator pulley on --- I took them back off per the adverse affects. You certainly shouldn't have to buy a better battery to compensate for a lack in the alternator's charging ability. And remember, once the car is running, you are no longer being powered by the battery. The alternator is doing all the work at that point.
I would however recommend an Optima for anyone who's willing to pay the extra cost, as they are a much better design and more durable than any standard OE style replacement. More starting power via CCA ratings. And they won't ever leak. A good choice for sure!
Electrical issues is the truth.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,342
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From: PA
S600, GL450, GLC 43
Don't you like bottom end torque?
To each his own, but I have either bought a FI car or added a FI unit on everycar I have owned in the recent past, aobut 15 years, to make the car ALOT more drivable around the city.
Yeah, it is sweet to make over 1 HP per cubic inch NA, and I have done that to in the 80's, but what you loose on the bottom of the graph isn't worth it IMHO.
See yeah
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Thread Starter
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,001
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From: NY
2014 E350 4Matic
Marc may be saying to upgrade your battery because of the underdrivepulleys. I am told that underdrive pulleys can have an adverse affect on the Alternator and batttery output. I see it on my Eagle Talon when the lights get dim at idle and get brighter when I step on the gas. Both the Alternator and battery are fairly new.
Exactly right.
JToups: I don't really know that the xenon problem is related to the udp's (I only believe that they are related). MB even published a repair memo listing flickering xenon lights as a common problem for our cars (a copy is in this forum). I had the dealer replace the xenon bulbs three times under warranty post installation of the udp's. And, if the battery has no effect on the electrical system once the car is running, why would installing the Optima Red Top eliminate 99% of my flickering problem. I thought the battery acts as a capacitor once the car is running and continues to supply its various electrical components with power.
Carl: Would love to get together with you and the guys on various runs. However, like most attorneys, I work weekends often enough. Maybe this summer will be better.
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 119
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From: Portland OR
2002 C32 AMG stock, E36 M3 modded
WHY
Don't you like bottom end torque?
To each his own, but I have either bought a FI car or added a FI unit on everycar I have owned in the recent past, aobut 15 years, to make the car ALOT more drivable around the city.
Yeah, it is sweet to make over 1 HP per cubic inch NA, and I have done that to in the 80's, but what you loose on the bottom of the graph isn't worth it IMHO.
See yeah
Don't you like bottom end torque?
To each his own, but I have either bought a FI car or added a FI unit on everycar I have owned in the recent past, aobut 15 years, to make the car ALOT more drivable around the city.
Yeah, it is sweet to make over 1 HP per cubic inch NA, and I have done that to in the 80's, but what you loose on the bottom of the graph isn't worth it IMHO.
See yeah
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 5
From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Drive the W211E55 or any F/I car and come back to us ! Nothing is more fun than driving in an F/I car. Turbo power is much better and more efficient than supercharged pwr as well.
Last edited by ProjectC55; Feb 14, 2008 at 09:44 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 5
From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Exactly right.
JToups: I don't really know that the xenon problem is related to the udp's (I only believe that they are related). MB even published a repair memo listing flickering xenon lights as a common problem for our cars (a copy is in this forum). I had the dealer replace the xenon bulbs three times under warranty post installation of the udp's. And, if the battery has no effect on the electrical system once the car is running, why would installing the Optima Red Top eliminate 99% of my flickering problem. I thought the battery acts as a capacitor once the car is running and continues to supply its various electrical components with power.
Carl: Would love to get together with you and the guys on various runs. However, like most attorneys, I work weekends often enough. Maybe this summer will be better.
JToups: I don't really know that the xenon problem is related to the udp's (I only believe that they are related). MB even published a repair memo listing flickering xenon lights as a common problem for our cars (a copy is in this forum). I had the dealer replace the xenon bulbs three times under warranty post installation of the udp's. And, if the battery has no effect on the electrical system once the car is running, why would installing the Optima Red Top eliminate 99% of my flickering problem. I thought the battery acts as a capacitor once the car is running and continues to supply its various electrical components with power.
Carl: Would love to get together with you and the guys on various runs. However, like most attorneys, I work weekends often enough. Maybe this summer will be better.
Marc we r looking to go out to Captree on Sunday Bro!! But I'll continue to keep you posted if you cannot make it.
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From: Philadelphia, PA
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
FWIW, you're debating this with someone who uses "much funner" and "more sweeter" in sentences...
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 5
From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Silly me! Why did'nt I pick that up!!!!
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 119
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From: Portland OR
2002 C32 AMG stock, E36 M3 modded
Cmon; English is my 2nd language; BTW I did drive E55 many times; yes it is very neck snappin fast, but you don't understand what I am trying to say, I know you are an FI guy so I am vasting my time arguing this. Everybody likes different things, IMO NA engines are more enjoyable even though they are not as fast
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,342
Likes: 11
From: PA
S600, GL450, GLC 43
Regarding underdrive pulleys, I can say this from my own experience --- DON'T get one for the alternator! There is virtually NO gain in changing a pulley with that small of a diameter, and it almost always leads to electrical system issues. IMO it's just not worth the risk, nor the expense. I'd bet on a dyno you'd see less than 1 hp difference, which is virtually a wash. You'd pick up as much by emptying the trunk...
Anything I've ever run an underdrive alternator pulley on --- I took them back off per the adverse affects. You certainly shouldn't have to buy a better battery to compensate for a lack in the alternator's charging ability. And remember, once the car is running, you are no longer being powered by the battery. The alternator is doing all the work at that point.
Anything I've ever run an underdrive alternator pulley on --- I took them back off per the adverse affects. You certainly shouldn't have to buy a better battery to compensate for a lack in the alternator's charging ability. And remember, once the car is running, you are no longer being powered by the battery. The alternator is doing all the work at that point.
EVERY undrive systme I ever used, gave me HEADACHES with flickering lights/dead batteries/poor stereo/etc, etc.
I took off my alternator pulley, and just used the crank as well. I agree TOTALLY about the HP saving with the alternator, because after all, if the battery is charged, the alternator is doing NO work, okay MINIMAL work to be exact. Hence NO GAIN.
See yeah
PS: I sold my underdrive pullies off of my 91 Stang when it was stock, because of NO GAINS. Three passes 14.4 at 96mph, with undrive pullies, swapped at the track in COOLER denser evening air, guess what 14.4 at 96. Oh yeah, my lights flickerd all the way home because it started to rain, with AC, with stereo equals DISCHARGED battery, FYI
Last edited by MRAMG1; Feb 15, 2008 at 11:48 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,475
Likes: 5
From: City with Tall buildings!
C43/55,2k11 Volvo S60 T6AWD,2k Audi B5 S4,95 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD 500+awhp
Dead on as usual my friend
EVERY undrive systme I ever used, gave me HEADACHES with flickering lights/dead batteries/poor stereo/etc, etc.
I took off my alternator pulley, and just used the crank as well. I agree TOTALLY about the HP saving with the alternator, because after all, if the battery is charged, the alternator is doing NO work, okay MINIMAL work to be exact. Hence NO GAIN.
See yeah
PS: I sold my underdrive pullies off of my 91 Stang when it was stock, because of NO GAINS. Three passes 14.4 at 96mph, with undrive pullies, swapped at the track in COOLER denser evening air, guess what 14.4 at 96. Oh yeah, my lights flickerd all the way home because it started to rain, with AC, with stereo equals DISCHARGED battery, FYI
EVERY undrive systme I ever used, gave me HEADACHES with flickering lights/dead batteries/poor stereo/etc, etc.
I took off my alternator pulley, and just used the crank as well. I agree TOTALLY about the HP saving with the alternator, because after all, if the battery is charged, the alternator is doing NO work, okay MINIMAL work to be exact. Hence NO GAIN.
See yeah
PS: I sold my underdrive pullies off of my 91 Stang when it was stock, because of NO GAINS. Three passes 14.4 at 96mph, with undrive pullies, swapped at the track in COOLER denser evening air, guess what 14.4 at 96. Oh yeah, my lights flickerd all the way home because it started to rain, with AC, with stereo equals DISCHARGED battery, FYI
Banned
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 426
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1996 C36 AMG
I too had flickering at night on my E36 M3 w/ underdrive crank. Thats why stock lightweight aftermarket crank pulley and underdrive accessory pulley kits w/ stock alternator pulley are the best options. Anything underdriving the crank and underdriving alternator... big no no.
