pointman

My car is coming closer to the end of warranty, and I really just want to keep it since trading in gets me peanuts... and since I love the car.

It seems that most are getting this contamination of the tranny are earlier models, 02 and some 03's.

1. I have an 04. Were they affected by this as well?

2. Are the Valeo radiators the only ones at risk of this? Meaning, I get a different brand (don't know if mine is Valeo or not) and I am safe?

3. What are the symptoms of contamination? Just jerky trans?

Thanks! Appreciate the help, and yes I am fully aware I may get some flaming for this. I am a big boy, I can handle it... just try to help me out between flames. Thanks.

AWDman

2002 models. bad valeos= tranny issues that could result in need for replacement.

tons of info under search- use terms "valeo" or "glcyol".

c32used

I read that the Valeo's have gone thru as many as 5 design changes so on your 04 you may be fine...Behr seems to be the radiator to get nowadays...but can't confirm its solely a radiator issue..

edtv82

this might help.

c32life.com


Jerk or (slam) around 1,500rpms



Put either your C32 or SLK32 in W mode.

Then accelerate slowly like you are window shopping, but keep the throttle steady and let the rpms climb.

When the rpms pass around 1,500 I get a jerk. It feels as if the car just changed gears...but it didn't. It's still in second.

Do any of you have this? Is this the torque converter engaging or the supercharger? I thought the supercharger only activated under heavy throttle.

Sometimes the jerk is almost a slam. When the car is cold I can hardly notice it.

If you have this symptom please email me.



I can feel it mostly in second gear. When I put the car in "W".

There is a jerk when accelerating slowly at around 1500rpms.

The car jerks then slows. I then have to give it a little more gas to get it up to speed.

I think it is the torque converter. I guess it is slipping and then when it locks up at 1500-2000 rpms it does it harshly.

It's really annoying me. I can't drive this car slowly without this stupid jerk.



Most people think it has to do with the shifting of gears. No matter how many times I tell them it is NOT the hesitation from a dead stop nor is it happening when the car shifts they still don't understand.

If it is the supercharger engaging which sounds plausible I still don't understand why it makes the car jerk. If I get on the gas hard, I can feel what ever it is engage right as I apply the gas, then the car takes off.





This is going to be a long story so skim at will and thank you for your patience.

For the last several months I have been watching this board and can finally participate! I ordered my C32 for a late January delivery. Last Saturday my dealer emailed saying 'come in ASAP!' Turns out they had one that almost matched my specs (minus COMAND and Xenon both I can live without) and I could test-drive it! I jumped in the Volvo (S60 T-5 w/5spd) and headed in. Didn't even take my checkbook. Well the guy who ordered it backed out and I ended up driving it home!

Let me start by saying everyone at the dealership has been wonderful. I have no relationship aside from being a customer but have rarely been treated with such respect and listened to more closely. This is my first Mercedes and I had high expectations.

Sunday was drizzly but I had to take a drive so my brother and I headed to our parents. This is where things began to get a little odd. When I first drove the car it had 23 miles and I took it very easy. Being unfamiliar with the vehicle I was just trying to get the feel but something was a little off. As others have noticed (see the FAQs) there is an odd lurching or lugging feeling under light throttle/load at about ~1500 RPMs. We stopped by the dealership Sunday on our way home and I made a service appointment for Monday morning.

Monday I arrived and the service manager jumped in and we went for a drive. In about 1/4 mile I reproduced the problem; it was obvious to us both. They plugged into the diagnostic system and could find no codes. Wanting to do further testing they gave me a loaner ('01 E430) and sent me home. Being unfamiliar with the car (the first they had seen) they started looking for an engine misfire. After 12 new plugs, a minor vacuum leak and a manifold sensor, nothing had changed. This was Thursday and I missed my brand new $54k car! Their communication of what was going on was very good but they could sense my frustration. THEY suggested I call 1-800 FOR-MERCEDES and apply some heat. I did.

Earlier in the day they had called NJ and had an Engineer on his way.

Friday about 11:00 I received a call saying the engineer was on site so I headed down. By the time I got there they were plugged in and testing.

The problem wasn't a misfire, turns out the transmission ECU was sending signals to the torque converter instructing it to lock (as much as 92%) at ~1500 RPMs. The engineer could monitor the PWM (pulse width modulation) signal being sent to the torque converter by the ECU and manually control it with the test equipment. He could reproduce the 'problem' pretty much at will. He also noticed at least one odd shift sequence. First gear, torque lock, shift to second instead of unlocking prior to the shift to second. This produced a noticeable 'lurch'.

After discovering this he was on the phone to NJ and they started looking for another C32 to test. All they could find (Friday afternoon) was an SLK32. The engineer in NJ was going to plug into the SLK and videotape the results. He is scheduled to head for Stuttgart Friday, Nov 2nd with the results.

From what I was told, there has been a similar complaint from a service manager in LA but it has not been pursued to this level.

I have the car back, with 140 additional miles but back nonetheless. There are currently two things that are going to be attempted. First, if the problem can be reproduced then a software update will be investigated. This may take a while; there are regulatory issues that need to be addressed for any SW changes. Or a new transmission ECU will be installed and the tests rerun. Regardless, my dealer plans to have an extra transmission ECU and torque converter on hand. That in itself says volumes about my dealership, mine is the only C32 they have sold!

I have been assured that I will be kept in the loop and have no doubts I will.

I can't stress enough how pleased I am with the way my dealer handled this. They stepped forward and backed their product 100%. The fact that this problem made it to the customer (me) is taken very seriously by MB. This should never have happened.

Yes, the car still does it, and it's annoying as heck. I have been assured no damage will result. If it does, its not coming out of my pocket. BTW, if I stomp on it the only lurch is my head hitting the headrest!

Based on posts I have seen on this site I know not all dealers would have handled this with the same dedication. That's unfortunate.

When I get additional information I will post it. Please feel free to ask any questions but keep in mind I am not an automotive engineer and these are only my opinions. I have no relationship with MB other than being a customer and can only hope that this information will become available through official MB channels.

Solution: This seems to be normal for 2002 C32's. The torque converter is locking up at around 1500 rpms. There is a computer software upgrade fix. Ask your MB dealer to put the 2003 C32 software in your 02 car.

pointman

Thanks guys. So there is no definitive answer on if 04's are ok or not?

Edtv, I don't have a jerk in the transmission just trying to plan ahead.Gonna check out that site. Thanks.

m444

On the Glycol question, if you are worried about the radiator get the AT fluid checked for contamination ($200). Mine was fine at 40k miles, Valeo rad
on a Aug 2002 sold 2003 model.

The relationship of the engine torque, torque Converter stall speed and and TCU lock up speed is tricky. If the converter hits electric induced lockup long before the stall speed is reached, one can get a nasty jerk. Also, if the springs in the Transmission valve body for the shift accumulator are too weak, one can get a pretty jarring shift (though this is probably not the problem).

If you can find someone to increase the minimum MPH before lockup in the TCU, you may be able to get rid of the problem.

I saw this in my one of my older cars, when I put in a higher stall torque converter. I just had the ECU tuner set the MPH lockup speed to 35MPH, this burns more gas, but gets rid of the lockup jerk.

OLDSCHOOLRICE

DTB states that it applies to vehicles up to production date 09/2003.

The way to identify a possibly bad radiator is to look at the crimping method used to attach the raiator end caps to the radiator core. The old method used small metal tabs that were bent over to hold the end caps on. The tabs are less than 1/4" wide and can be seen at the top corners of the radiator.

In my opinion if you're out of warranty and have an old style radiator, even if it hasn't leaked or contaminated the transmission yet, I would say it is worth upgrading to the newer modified radiator before it does leak and costs you a raidator and a torque convertor and a transmission $$$$.

pointman

Thanks will take a look. So it seems a different radiator will avoid this issue altogether then? Haven't gotten a direct response on that.

Its weird.. I am feeling some weird issues lately... in drive, rpms at about 700-800... then when put into neutral they jump to 1500 and stay there.

pointman

m444, thanks for the info.. but a bit over my head to be honest. I will look into getting that test done. Appreciate the help for sure.

OLDSCHOOLRICE

Yes, the glycol issue is directly related to the radiator.

Not to sure on the high idle when shifting back into park, but I have read of a couple of other c32 owners complaining of the same issue on this forum.

m444

A MB dealer can do the glycol AT contamination fluid test. Many people have been putting in Behr radiators to prevent the leak from occurring ( leak is between trans cooler in the radiator and the engine coolant). The original TSB indicated the specific Valeo radiator that had this problem. It occurred on many other MB models such as C320s also.

Here is a link to a Behr Radiator:

http://www.car-stuff.com/carparts/me...ml#application

If there glycol contamination of the AT fluid, even a little, it really goofs up the transmission shifting.

On the high idle RPM, look for an air intake leak, like a vacuum hose being off. Maybe check the purge valve.

m444

Here is the glycol contamination transmission TSB:

A/T - Harsh Engagement/Droning/Buzzing Noises

Date: March 24, 2006

Order No.: P-B-27.55/50f

Supersedes: P-B-27.55/50e dated March 6, 2006

Group: 27

Revision History
SUBJECT:
Model 203.040/061/064/065/081/084/261/264/281/284/740/747/764

Model 209.365/375/376/465/475

Model 211.065/070/076/083/265/283

Up to Production Date 0912003

Harsh Engagement Possibly Followed by Droning/Buzzing Noises During Light

Acceleration Between Engine Speed of 1200-2500 RPM

If you receive customer reports in the above model vehicles of humming/buzzing noises or noticeable harsh engagement during gentle acceleration between engine speed of 1200 - 2500 rpm; this may be caused by incomplete adaptation of the torque converter, the transmission (EGS) ECU software or glycol contamination of the automatic transmission fluid. Follow the below repair procedures to resolve.
Note : The condition is not intermiffent and can be reproduced at all times.

Note : The Glycol test must be performed only if:

a. the vehicle was produced before 09/2003,


b. the radiator is manufactured by "Valeo", refer to Figure 1 for identification,


c. old crimping method used to assemble the radiator end tanks resembles Figure 2.

Caution! It is mandatory to follow the process steps in sequence.

1. Clear all adaption values.

2. Verify if condition is still present

3. If condition is still present after clearing all EGS ECU adaption values, perform glycol test.

Note : Steps 4 and 5 do NOT apply to AMG Vehicles (203.065, 209.376 and 211.076).

4. If condition is no longer present after clearing all EGS ECU adaption values, replace the EGS ECU with updated software with part number listed in the parts information table.

5. If condition reappears after EGS ECU software updates, perform glycol test.

Instructions for Glycol Test
Caution! Ensure that safety glasses and rubber gloves are worn when performing glycol test. This test should be performed in a clean and well ventilated area away from organic materials (rags, cardboard, oils and other chemicals). Refer to the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) for additional safety measures.


1. Fill 0.5 ml of ATF with the pipette in the small glass container (Figure 4,1).

2. Fill with distilled water to 5 ml (Figure 4, 2).

3. Add 1 drop of Tenside" (Figure 4, 3).

4. Add 1 micro spoon of "Periodic acid" and rock the small glass container (Figure 4, 4).

5. Allow to stand for 5 minutes (Figure 4, 5).

Note : It is essential to comply with the specified standing time in step 5; otherwise the measured value result may be distorted.

6. Add 10 drops of "Natronlauge" or Caustic Soda Solution (Figure 4, 6).

7. Allow to stand for 3 minutes (Figure 4, 7).

Note : It is essential to comply with the specified standing time in step 7; otherwise the measured value result maybe distorted.

8. The sample is now divided into 2 layers; an upper and a lower layer. Immerse the syringe so that the end tip is into the lower layer of the sample and take up approximately 4 ml. of the lower layer using the syringe (Figure 4, 8).

9. Pour the fluid taken up through the filter into a clean small glass container (Figure 4, 9).

10. Immerse test sticks into the filtered solution for approximately 2 seconds, shake the stick and wait for a reaction time of one minute (Figure 4, 10).

11. Compare the color of the test sticks with the color chart on the test stick tube (Figure 4, 11).

Note : The colors of the color chart tube correspond to the amount of glycol contamination of the ATF. After completion of the test, the liquid in the two glass containers should be handled as a hazardous waste. Store in a sealed container and dispose of in accordance with all Federal, state and local hazardous waste regulations.

Perform repair based on the test result:
1. Up to 100 mg/liter of glycol contamination do not perform any repair (considered normal due to condensed water and not a leak).

2. As of 100 mg/liter of glycol contamination, replace radiator. Clean and flush the transmission with the torque converter and transmission oil cooler lines. Refer to WIS Document AR27.55-P-0100A.

3. If the condition is still reproducible after the flush routine, replace the torque converter.

pointman

Thank you, appreciate the help. Hopefully I get a solution that I can share with everyone.

pointman

Thank you SOOOO much. Seriously. Very very helpful in all posts. I am gonna get this test done, and pursue these issues. Hopefully I get some sort of resolve.

I am curious, once contamination sets in... how long before something goes kaput, or before it gets real FUBAR?

pointman

I sooo appreciate that info. Seriously. Thank you thank you thank you.

1qikctr

I change my behr raditior with labor 1600 total, I was tooo damm lazy to do it myself. Getting to old for self projects. change it ,to be on the safe side.

D_Star

DAMN! i was thinking about replacing mine, until I read your post. $1600?!? The Behr unit is somewhere around $200, so labor alone was close to $1400?

pointman

My car is an 12/03 build... and I can't find a "valeo" marker. I am hoping I am lucky and don't have a Valeo in the car.

tokyo0one

hmm..i wonder if the subtle jerks i've been feeling is related to this thread.
I've just checked the production date and its july 2002 so its making me wonder.
However, i couldnt find the Valeo sticker anywhere

Gonna try if i can replicate the jerk at 1500rpm. If it happens i'll be happy i've got the extended warranty.

Gramma_Benz

I just had mine replaced with a Behr. Cost around $500-$550 including labor, I think. Had some other work done too.

mdncn2762

I replaced the old Valeo radiator with a new Behr radiator I found off of E-bay. (preventive maintenance) Its been about 6 months now and no problems. You can get a new in the box Behr radiator for $159 +- on E-bay.