rage2

Like I said, I've read through your R&D posts, and I'm simply disagreeing with some of your findings, so it really does not answer any questions for me. Although I haven't tested on over 2000 cars, I have the same results off 3 "32 AMG" cars. Stock timing of 12-14 degrees is just absurd (I've never seen values like this on a stock 32 motor). Although I don't have a "mega bucks Snap on OBDII scanner", I feel that the readings I've acheived with my cheap OBDII scanner is accurate, definately in line with other forced induction motors that I've worked with. And yes, I still stand behind my findings that the stock IC is adequate for stock, and right at the borderline before power loss/detonation occurs when the Renntech pulleys are installed. I can't comment on your pulleys, I don't have any experience with them.

Lucas

Rage2

I think you mentioned the problem yourself " Cheap OBD II "
scanner.

I haven't done R&D on the 32 AMG, but a lot on the AMG 55 K
and the 600 bi-turbo and all the figures you mention I have never seen before. I have the MB DAS and for sure it will show someting
close to the truth.

I have heard from Brandon at KLEEMANN USA that these cheap
OBDII scanners are more or less useless, something is wrong if
you always see the same result at different conditions.

All I see is that the AMG 55 IC system sucks, I took out the IC and replaced it with a pipe and gained 25 HP, so the AMG IC system is a great pcs. of engineering.
Next problem is that the water pump is to slow, it's not circulating
the water fast enough in the system.
The AMG 32 is exactly the same design as the 55, so the IC system is close to worthless.

The 600 bi-turbo runs with 50% lower temperatures after the IC
at WOT and 250 km/h than the AMG 55 K, so in this case I take my
hat off for the MB boys.

Boo2

While i'm down with modding my ride, I don't know smack about any of this. I one of those guys who leaves it up to you experts to figure it out. On a qualitative note, I did call Kleeman to see where they were on C32 upgrades, and the one thing they did tell me is that the IC is the achilles heel of the engine. That is what they said they were looking into. This was about 8 months ago. haven't really followed up to see if they were releasing the upgrade.

B

Lucas

Boo

Don't wait for KLEEMANN to release anything for the AMG 32, the interest from the market is simply to small, so we will let the other
players fight over whom have the best pulley upgrade to the lowest price.
KLEEMANN focus on the large engines like 5,0 and 5,5 V8 and the V 12.

Go for Vadims pulley, it sounds to me he have done a lot of research, which for sure is more than Renntech have.

rage2

I saw the same timing results with the stock motor as well as the pulley'd motor. This means that there was no detonation, no timing retard, with the changes in condition as well as pulleys. I saw different timing results with the ECU installed. This means that there was detonation and the ECU was pulling back timing. The timing numbers improved as I went up in fuel octane. Read my posts carefully.

I saw different IAT results based on air temperature, water temperature, on the dyno (airflow), etc, so yes, readings were changing as conditions changed.

rage2

For more extreme mods, yes, the IC can be improved upon. All I'm saying is the IC is adequate for stock, as well as pulleys only (small increase in boost). Once the ECU was added into the equation with the leaner A/F mixture, it was obvious that the IC hit a brick wall on 91 octane fuel.

Vadim @ evosport

Precisely my friend. 91 is what we are dealing with here in CA. I have numerous local and NV customers who complain about power loss during warm weather.

Last summer we did a lot of R&D that showed us that there was not enough cooling from stock design. Perhaps for your octane and your weather condition it is adequate. Again, for our customers in our environment it is not.

P.S. I still wonder where you get 91 CA gas in Canada.

rage2

I don't, but I know someone with very similar timing readings to mine in CA (SLK32), so I'm just assuming that the fuel up here is close to CA 91 fuel. He has the Renntech ECU and Pulleys, and the timing numbers are horrible, in the 12-15 range, but still better than your stock C32 numbers.

The fuel quality up in Calgary is pretty horrible, on my 944 turbo, I make less power on 91 octane than most other 944 turbo owner with similar mods (fuel limitation, right on the edge of detonation, 18 degrees of timing @ 12psi boost). On 103 octane, I make way more power than anyone else on 103 octane. So I believe we're in the same boat... our 91 octane isn't really "91 octane" as compared to the rest of the country.

rage2

Wow, I just noticed this comment...

Did I read this wrong, or are you saying your SL55 *gained* HP by removing the intercooler? If that's the case, I think you should head to the AMG factory and apply for a job.

I'm not too familar with the AMG 55 motor, but don't you have to take the supercharger off along with huge amounts of hoses to remove the intercooler?

FrankW

Renntech is already well established as a aftermarket tuner for Mercedes-Benz. You can be sure that quality will follow their products. As for Evosport, they just started not too long ago. But from what I've heard they do some pretty quality job at a cheaper price. So it's up to you to decide.

tango

just like what frank said, whatever floats ur boat.
RENNtech IS pretty damn pricy tho

amgme

their pulley is damn pricey when they're not the ones that made it. there's something wrong with this picture.

bverotti

Does anybody know what is the conversion for USA octane to European octane ?
What I see at the gas station is 95, 98 and I think one company sells 99 octane fuel.
Thx.

rage2

The cost to duplicate the Renntech pulleys is about $200-$250 from any machine shop. That includes the stock crank pulley from MB to press the new ring on. I doubt Renntech buys and resells the pulleys, because anyone can make these quite cheaply and make an even bigger profit.

Someone mentioned that Renntech buys the pulleys from MKB? I looked on their website and their pulley kit looks different... includes both a crank pulley and a new supercharger pulley. As for the Renntech ECU, I know for a fact that they use code from Germany (not sure who's though).

Vadim @ evosport

Rage2: The supplier that we talked to at Essen specifically mention Renntech, Brabus, Nowack and other German tuner whose name escapes me now, as the companies they supply.

The picture on MKBs site is not complete. They show a stock clutch pulley just because it looks pretty.

Bverotti: Do a Yahoo search for "octane", you will find a number of excellent articles that go into great detail on octane differences between US and other countries.

Lucas

Rage2.

I thing you have to do a little more research that monitoring the ECU with an OBD II scanner

Yes the IC is under the S/C in the V and yes you have to dismount
S/C and hoses to get there.

See because AMG makes an intercooler it doesn't have to be good
and on the new 55 k engines its far from that.
The problem the 55 faces is that AMG placed the IC under the compressor, this gives very limited space for the IC in the V between the 2 cyl. banks.
The IC area is very small and the IC element is very long, this gives the IC a huge flow problem over 4000 rpm.

Look at the torque curve from the 55 K, it will have 700 nm shortly
at approx. 3000 rpm, hear after the torque curve drops like a stone untill max rpm at 6800.

When I claim that removing the IC will give + 25 HP, I am not joking

At full engine rpm, the pressure drop over the IC is so huge
( 0,4 bar ), so by replacing it with a pipe will give slightly higher
inlet temps, but much better flow.

The C 32 might suffer from the same problem, but ofcause in a smaller way due to less needed airflow in a 3,2 engine.

Do you get my point or do I have to show my a$$ completely.

theo

wow.... this is some heavy duty discussion. I think.. I will go with the evosport mod. if it's bad..... I am sure people who have done this modification would be complaining about evosport bitterly on this thread

thanks

Pierre32///AMG

You are absolutely right!! Look this chart =
http://www.hs-elektronik.com/datenbl...0ps-700nm.html
and compare the torque line with the C32
http://www.hs-elektronik.com/datenbl...s-c32-amg.html
the slope on the 55 engines drop quick compared to the V6 Kompressor.

amgme

pierre, is there someone to email at h&s. i'm interested and was wondering how well their ecu will work with 91 octane gas and a upgraded pulley. thx.

otoupalik

We have tested almost every software program out there, EXCEPT for this one.

However, we will be testing very soon the H&S on Vadim's car - stay tuned!

Thanks

Brad

Pierre32///AMG

otoupalik, THANKS!!,
I hope to have good news! The point is that if I install the EVO’s pulley in my car at this altitude (5,450 ft) for sure will work awesome with the H&S.
Nevertheless, I am wondering how work at sea level, CA, NY, etc.
Today, I still looking for the part # of the Y connector coming on the SL55, as well as looking for different reservoirs to install… one candidate is the SLK230 reservoir that is use to be over the radiator on the front, and at this time go! with the EVO pulleys. Headers are in my wait list, by now.

Pierre32///AMG

http://www.hs-elektronik.com/start.html

Personal Thomas Scholz's email:
f-360@web.de

Thomas winter car RS4:
http://www.hs-elektronik.com/leistungspruefstand.html

Today summer car SL55.

otoupalik

Pierre,

Thanks for the info! I am on it!

Thanks

Brad

bverotti

@ otoupalik


I would be very interested in seeing your results with the H&S chip. The reason being is that in 3 weeks time I will drive to Munich. H&S is located in Berg (+- 20 km from Munich) which is just next to Starnberg where I lived for 3 years.
If you do find that they have a working software that brings 20 or more HP I will have them install the chip and you will get my order for ODPS.

amgme

speaking of ODPS, is evosport actually shipping these yet? anyone receive theirs via usps/ups/fedex?