MBH motorsports

whats up guys its Hooley,
Long tube headers for the C55 get underway Wednesday of next week. It will take about a week for the fabrication and another week for testing. You know how it is... I have to dyno them and put some heat cycles though them that sort of thing.

More info to come stay tuned.

TruTaing

long tubes with cats... interesting

wawy

hooley,

Correct me if I'm wrong but when a longtube is placed on an engine the low to mid-range power picks up correct? Or is it the other way around and they are better for mid-range to high?? Will these be 300 cel primary cats?

c32used

You the man

MBH motorsports

The way that I see it with Long tube headers is this.. If long tube headers are not designed with header design software it becomes a guessing game as to where the power will be placed. Sure You may pick up more HP and or more torque, but you have to ask yourself "is that what your after?" randomly place power?

Its common place in professional racing like IRL, NASCAR, F-1 and so on that exhaust headers are first designed using software programs. These programs have the ability to crunch engine specs and in a nutshell give data back to the fabricator for use in the fabrication process.

That being said, a good fabricator using header design software to aid in the building of headers can pick and choose the placement were the gains are best suited for the project.

So what I'm looking to do (torque freaks dont get mad) is make a header that is designed for high HP. Lets be honnest here the C55 has a ton of torque and there is a limit to what the C55 will put down on the street.

Adding more low end TQ to the C55 might be a waist of power as the C55 will in most cases just spin it away. However if you can extends that torque curve later in the RPM range it seems like a more usable spot. while also increasings the HP in the upper RPM's to give you that extra power we all wont at the top of the track.

So we are hoping to make the torque the car already makes more sustainable up top (fading later in the RPM band) while picking up top end peak HP.

And yes, I've had good results with the 300cell cats so i'm hoping to continue using them, pending on the length of them. If the 300cell is really long then i might not be the best move.

saer1one

great start hooley..! LONG live king hooley..!!!!

SilverBulletAMG

Could always go with a 200 cell cat. I like your thought process on where to have headers making power. I would gladly give up a little tq for top end gains.

Newzchspy

Here in IL, where its all stop-light to stop-light, I'd rather have the low end, get your *** out of the hole power. There's not many places here where "top end" is going to benefit you!! You're lucky to get 100 MPH before the LEO with the laser gun is staring down your front plate or lights with his high tech pointer!! And no, we can use the LI or other remedies since they've been outlawed too.

I saw a Lambo Gallardo (black) from Chicago Lamborghini in Lake County today. This is a perfect example of "over-kill" for Chicago traffic and few open roads?? Had a 1/8 mile run with him and while he beat me, it was only by about a car length and certainly not a shellacking!!! My point is, I'd rather have the low end here.

See this article:" Unequal-length short-tube headers are by far the most common design, and make more power than the stock headers. Equal-length short-tubes generally make more power than their unequal-length siblings (depending on the design), but they make spark plug changes more difficult and can often shorten the life of spark plug wires (again, depending on the design). Then, there are long-tube headers, which are purported to make more power than any short-tube design. But how much, and where? And what sacrifices must be made for the extra power?"

The long and short of it (no pun intended) is that typically the long ones are good for more modified engines and a relatively stock Mustang on a Mustang dyno produced less HP with the longs than the shorts, BUT (caveat here!!), the long tubes allowed the engine to produce the HP and torque over a longer period of time on the dyno. Basically, the results said that if you have a modified engine the longs are the way to go since they tend to scavenge the exhaust from the cylinder better than the shorts (again, on more modified engines) . No advantage to the longs (shorts are better) if you are only slightly or unmodified).

spr

Yeah why not use 200 cells? Why 300 over 200? CEL's aren't usually an issue with 200's only 100's. So are you dumping the primaries or secondaries in relation to locatoin? I assume you're only using one set right?

Long tubes are usually far superior to equal length shorties and nonequal shorties and of course stock log style manifolds. From my experience the worst are the equal length shorties as they like to burn wires without modified heat shields.

Newzchspy

+1, exactly!!!! Problem with the Equal length shorties is that they tend to burn everything in sight, wires, firewalls etc etc. For some reason though, the shorties tend to give more low end power than longs.

MBH motorsports

I have no problem with using 200 cell cats. I've just had a good experience with 300 cell cats. i tend to like a shorter cat over a longer cat. So If I can get a shorter 300 cell cat over a longer 200 cell cat thats the way I'm leaning at the moment. It could change though.

Whats going to happen is the headers will be able to mate up with the stock exhaust pipes just before the location of the secondary cats. I'm doing this so C55 members can take the headers to the shop of their choice and have them installed and fitted to the stock pipes. However I would highly recommend getting your exhaust redone to a true dual set up.


Another thing i'm tossing around is a complete exhaust system including mufflers to replace the stock exhaust. I'm going to do it for my car. So if people want a muffler and pipes made specifically for the C55 let me know.

spr

Ah, so you're doing it much like how Kleemann does basically but with a longer tube design.

As to the equal shorties making more torque, it's because they have more backpressure likely.

rockjock

-I was hoping to have a set up that would eliminate the second cats-
How are you guys running the true dual set up-where is the passenger side rear pipe going? By the tank?
Having the car in the air-I can see why the sway bar is bent the way it is!

c32AMG-DTM

hooleyboy, great stuff - looking forward to seeing your results.

As the vast majority of your C55 target market will be N/A, are you going to test the exhaust system on an N/A car to see what kind of gains can be expected? I'd expect your F/I C55 to gain quite a bit more with these than what a stock car might muster (just an educated guess).

MBH motorsports

If we offer a complete exhaust system it will eliminate the 2nd cats. I have currently a true dual setup with no 2nd cats

Its rather easy to head to an exhaust shop and have them choped out much like a res-delete.

If its wanted I could (and I recommend it) just have the headers made and then you can have a local exhaust shop fab up some pipe for a dual exhaust cat back setup. I did mine and it didnt cost that much.


I'm hoping to get my hands on a NA C55 and see what happens. I realize I dont have the best C55 to test these headers on so I'm with you on the fact that my gains maybe a bit more than what an NA C55 will pick up.

cannonball55

Keeping my eye on these!

mkonei

approximate price point?

MBH motorsports

Fabrication starts tomorrow! Price point will follow soon. I'm about 2 weeks or less out from a full on exhaust system complete with Mufflers, Pipes, Cats, and long tube headers. In the end I hope to make all of this available to you.

hooleyboy

guys we are making a muffler. So I want you guys to have a say in some of this. So post up some pictures of exhaust tips you would like to see on our mufflers.

willc55

Personally I'm a big fan of the large rectangular opening look, like on the new Mazda 6 and the Lexus LS. I know this is more bumper than tip, but if you could duplicate that style in a tip I think it would look sharp. I'm sure no one would complain about AMG tips though.

hooleyboy

I had tips like that in my hand today, I have to say they looked the best.

rockjock

Stick with AMG tips-they are one of the fwe give aways on the AMG's that MBZ guys can ID each other!

mkonei

im kinda partial to the amg muffs as well, i like the smooth sound. hooley, what size primaries can you fit under there? 1 5/8 i assume?

hooleyboy

I'm going to the fabricator today to drop off some stuff I will find out. Im a fan of the AMG muffler as well it sounds real good. The only reason I'm having new mufflers put in is because its a point of restriction. The muffler will be a perforated strait though design.

AMS Performance

This is true, due to the higher flow yet higher backpressure of short tubes vs. long tubes, torque gains in the 2000-3500 range are very strong. But for all out top end HP, you can't beat long tubes.

Keep up the great work Hooley!