Viper98912

Did a pan drop and filter change this past weekend and put in the latest and greatest Fuchs 4134 ATF that should be compatible with the 5 speed. Well, it might all be in my head, but it feels like my 1-2 shift is definitely much slower now (especially under low-medium load) and the higher 3-4-5 shifts are a little bit harsher (but not necessarily faster).

I bought 12 liters of the stuff and planned to do another drain and fill this weekend to try to get out some of the remaining old stuff, but I'm wondering whether to scrap that idea and go back to the traditional 5 speed fluid....

Newzchspy

I've stuck with the Benz fluid BUT a lot of guys with the 5 speed are using the new 7 speed stuff??

Viper98912

Yea, idk. Maybe it's a little low or something or maybe I've got a little bit of ATF in the TCU connector and should probably replace that as well.

JonMBZ

my trans connector was updated under a recall. I would not put anything besides MB fluid in my car it's not worth replacing the trans if something goes wrong. I would drain and put the MB fluid back in. Mobile makes the fluid for MB ATF 134 IF you must put something that's not from the dealer I would at least put the Mobile fluid that they sell as MB compatible.

Viper98912

Fuchs is the main supplier listed from MB.

TemjinX2

tranny are so sensitive to fluid types and fluid levels, i would just stick with the oem stuff to tell you the truth. If you buy it on line, the pricing isn't too bad.

91RS

I used the new 7 speed MB fluid in mine. Next oil change I'm going to do a drain and fill to hopefully replace a little bit more. I'm not sure if I really noticed any difference, but my car only has 37k on it and some of the fluid was replaced when the valve body was replaced at around 20k miles anyway. I'm being extreamly proactive so hopefully my transmission will be nice to me.

marw

Greetings

I had both tranny, tq, cooler replaced 6 months ago. That was the exsact same oil MB put in my 2003 c32. It feels a little smoother compared to when car was working proper. I would double check to make sure your oil level is correct. Its a common symptom you have when oil level is incorrect.

Viper98912

Well I did another drain and fill, city and highway drive, and another drain and fill today.

I didn't bother to check before I started if the level was low or not since I was just ready to get on with it already. On initial feel of the last drive, it seems to be shifting better and smoother than from my first change. My goal was not only to try to mix in new fluid and get out more old fluid, but also to perfect the fluid level. So far it looks like it's helped. All in all, I've used 9.5 liters, not too bad. Just need to get a new drain bolt now, since mine is pretty close to stripped.

JonMBZ

Where is that listed? I looked this up before and mobile ATF 134 is listed as the supplier and on the MB bottle is says ATF 134

Viper98912

http://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/236.14_en.html
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/New-F...N-ATF-4134.pdf

In the original MB document I found (which I seem to have lost), MB specifically states that Fuchs and Shell are the suppliers for this (aside from their own branded bottles). In this other doc I just found, it looks like they've added a few more, including Mobil.

JonMBZ

Ok I see, I read the same list, but when I read that list and it says the location I figured the fluids were only available in those countries and the Mobil was the only one listed in USA. I am guessing the one we use is still the Mobil product though since it says 134 on our bottles and not 4134.

splinter

Original 722.9 technical training information… link. No disrespect intended, JonMBZ.

Only chimed in because I can post the homonym Fuchs without getting banned. The tribology business being what it is, chemists from various petroleum concerns can refine and blend virtually any formulation under license to manufacturing rights. MB’s 7-speed transmission hasn’t exactly proven trouble-free in the field, as evidenced by any number of warranty replacements and ongoing SDS reprogramming TSBs.

Viper98912,
Tried the 722.9’s then-specified (3353) A001 989 45 03 10 fluid in an attempt to chemically mitigate my C32’s torque converter lock-up abruptness. It replaced a complete flush and fill of 10,000-mile-old 722.6 A001 989 21 03 10 ATF. Note both were replenished by dropping the pan, replacing the filter, and pumping the old fluid out through the radiator’s integral cooler junction until only fresh fluid was observed being discharged. Doing so requires about 14 liters in spite of our gearbox’s total circuit capacity of some 10 liters. A portion inevitably remains in the electrohydraulic control module and attached to ancillary components, barring a complete teardown. Nonetheless, they’re ostensibly backdateable for just that reason.

Promptly noticed that the newer (not your 4134) fluid had no noticeable effect on the converter’s lock-up. It did, however, substantially soften part-throttle and WOT shift feel by lengthening their duration. Suspect it was the ‘improved’ friction modifiers coming into play - exactly what the vast majority of most buyers expect. A quick and crisp shift is a happy shift IMHO since they serve to minimize heat- and wear-generating clutch slippage, thereby helping to maximize longevity.

Have reverted back to the 722.6’s original 236.10 specification flüssigkeitsgetriebeöl with satisfactory results.

Viper98912

I went for another drive this morning. It seems that the 1-2 shift has gotten slightly faster, and there's less jerkiness now between the 3-4-5 shifts. It seems that the drain and fills with newer fluid to get out more of the old fluid has somewhat worked (and/or I was also low from before).

One of my original reasons for switching out the old fluid was obviously for PM reasons, but at the same time I was trying to see if I could eliminate the occasional jerkiness I'd get on the 2-1 (or higher?) shift when coming off the highway. Only time will tell for this one.

There is still some lag in the 1-2 shift, but I'm starting to feel like it's always been there. It might be wear on the clutchpack, or it might be purposefully designed into the transmission valve body or engine mapping. A lot of times, manufacturers cut power to the engine between shifts to minimize jerkiness.

I guess all is back to normal now.

JonMBZ

None taken I read the article, but the fluid you listed is not sold at the dealers anymore (for a long time) the forward part# 001-989-68-03-10 so it's possible that it's still not the Fuschs fluid and maybe they changed it for a reason? What oil are you using now that gave you the results you needed? I have transmission shift delays, but I was under the impression it's normal by techs I have spoken to and Hooley changed his solenoids to help with the issue with success. Glad to hear things are back to semi-normal now Viper. I need to do my service as well, but it's a little expensive and I want to flush it completely and change the filter/pan gasket. I also never took into consideration that the valve body held that much fluid as well that would be difficult to clear out.

Viper98912

236.10 only listed the MB fluid (*21) and Shell 3403.
236.12 listed the MB fluid (*45), along with Fuchs, Shell, and Mobil 3353.
236.14 lists the MB fluid (*68), along with Fuchs, Shell, and Mobil 4134/134.

I read up this morning on the blue top solenoids (and possible programming), and while it seems like a cool option to get nice crisp shifts, I don't know if it's worth it or nice for my DD. Plus, I used to be an automatic transmission engineer for Honda, and know very very well how easy it is to f stuff up, especially when you're screwing with the valve body. The most precision and fragile-if-wrong thing in your entire car is the transmission (not even the engine comes close).

91RS

The good thing about these transmissions is I don't think there are any check ***** or any of that crap since there is engine braking in all gears so I don't think it is a big deal to pull the valve body. I thought about doing the solenoids but I'm worried my car might already have them (like the guy with the E55) and that I can't really find any info on pulling the valve body.

Viper98912

The valves and valve holes in the valve body are extremely tight tolerance. I've seen a transmission not shift into a gear because an almost invisible piece of contamination got stuck inside. Scary when you pop off that pan!

Viper98912

In case anyone wants some updates after some days of driving:

It seems that the issues I was having before have mostly disappeared. The 1-2 shift isn't slow anymore and the shifts aren't as jerky. Overall it kinda seems like the shifts are a little stronger and crisper now (you can feel them more sometimes). All I can say is try to drain as much as you can of the old fluid (this will require drain and filling a few times if you choose to do it this way) and make sure your level is perfect.

marw

Nice to hear your issues are resolved!

splinter

Pleased to report that after having had Fuchs’ Titan 4134 (236.14 specification) ATF in the gearbox for a few thousand miles, its shift and torque converter lock-up characteristics have noticeably improved.

Light load up- and down-shifts are smoother than with its former OE specification 236.10 fluid, yet heavy throttle and WOT changes are completed more quickly. Not sure what’s in the formulation and additive package, but it most certainly improved shifting in a modified C32 with otherwise stock transmission hardware and TCU/EGS programming.

Must be noted the Fuchs replaced a relatively fresh complete flush and fill of (then-specified) initial build OEM PN 001 989 21 03 10 ATF, and that it likely proved its full efficacy by virtue of concurrent ~14 liter flush/replacement and filter service. At >$200 for P&M, and an hour of quality workshop time, its use can rightly be deemed yet another recommended preventative maintenance and upgrade task. YMMV.

kensiko

What are the 236 numbers?

Are they part numbers?

Can someone explain their meaning and or application?

kensiko

Not for nothing but isnt Fuchs Titan the same product as the Mercedes fluid without the Mercedes branding?

Viper98912

Not sure why you dug up a 7 year old thread...

Impressive though?

kensiko

Most if not all of my search results are bringing up older threads primarily because I just bought a 2008 GL550 and the information was discussed several years ago.

But is my statement correct in that the Fuchs Titan products are exactly the same as sold by Mercedes but without the MB branding?