Just picked up an e90 M3, thinking of trading in the C55.
 

In a bind, man I love that C55, but I found a great deal on a used M3 and jumped on it. I have till Sat to return it, no questions asked. Still in the decision process......:confused: Help!

what's the year and mileage on the M3? Sedan or Coupe?

Grats, E90 M3 is a fantastic car, personally I wouldn't stay with the C55 as well unless I had piles of cash laying around.

I work at one of the local BMW dealers here in town. The E90 M3 is a nice car. It's much meaner looking than the E92. I think you may miss the torque of the C55 however. If you keep it though, congrats!

SCOOP!!!!!!!!!!! Long time!!! PM ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

'08, dark gray sedan, only 15K miles.

I hear ya. The quote I got from CarMax was lower than I was expecting, however, the C55 was mainly the wife's car/kid-hauler, so it does have some wear.....

You nailed it with the torque. I know on paper the M should be faster, but it doesn't feel like it. The frickin AMG is an ANIMAL off the line and alot easier to push to its limits, the M you need to learn how to keep it in it's power band, like well above 4000 rpm....

ERIC MY BRUTHA!!! Good to see you're still around. You still pimpin that C350?

Funny you posted this thread, I just got a E92 M3 back in July! BTW, I also moved to Irvine, we should meet up for a beer, I'd be willing to make the trip down to SD.

What kind of tranny? If its the 6 speed, the throws are rather long and you will get tired of constant shifting because of the low torque.

I am not sure if the newer DCT is better than the old SMG.

I love my DCT. It's nothing short of incredible.

Isn't the E90 M3 supposed to be able to do 60mph in 3.9s? Does the lower torque still make it feel slower even if it's almost 1second faster than the C55?
I know it's a high revving engine and stuff, but I find it weird that it doesn't feel as fast even if it's faster.

E9x M3's get to 60 in about 4.2s.

Anyone who tells you a car has low torque and is therefore slow, is an idiot.

The 4.2 0-60 is for the track where you can max out every gear and hit every single shift point. In everyday life between lights, you will be lucky to get anywhere close to that number in an M3. In a C55 or any car of that type, you can consistenly hit the published 0-60 number, all you have to do is step on it. You can magazine race all you want, but that's the bottom line.

In everyday life, any car that is low on torque will be slow. On a track is where the low torque ceases to be relevant because you have room to wind it up. Period. End of story. Any M3 owner who claims otherwise is an idiot, or fanboi.

So are you saying the C55 can hit published 0-60 times without maxing out every gear?

I'm willing to bet with my DCT I'll be able to consistently be pretty close to that number day in and day out. All I have to do is step on it too.

It doesn't sound like you understand gearing very well.

He might mean when you're throwing your own gears...I have no doubt DCT cars can achieve their published 0-60 times in the real world without too much difficulty at all.

Dude, I'm an ex-M3 owner, so I understand it quite well. The problem seems to be that you don't understand RPMs very well.

The C55 will hit published numbers consistently and with minimum fuss because it makes 370 ft-lbs at 4000 rpm. M3 makes peak torque (80 ft-lbs less) at what 5k? Where do you make your peak HP? 8k? C55 makes it at 5k. Fanbois who read magazines will only look at the HP number, without any understanding of where the power is delivered in the rev band.

In the real world, you don't have room to let the RPMs climb. Any car that makes power at astronomical revs will be slower than cars that make power at low down in the band. Fact. Torque is more important in real life. Fact.

I adore the M3, don't get me wrong. Let's not make this into an M3 versus AMG argument either.

heh, you're missing the fact that due to gearing, 5k rpm in your car does not equal 5k rpm in my car. If you take the numbers off of the tach, your shift points and mine are probably pretty similar, maybe a little bit off. For example, I don't know for sure, but 1st gear probably ends at about the same speed for both cars, except you do it at what? 6krpm, and I shift at 8.3k rpm.

Remember folks, torque is multiplied through the gearbox and drivetrain while HP is NOT.

Wow, congrats!! how do you like your M3? What year is it. This is the first used car I've ever purchased, so I'm a little cautious as to how it was driven.

I love the white btw in the E9x with the black trim around the rearview mirrors, etc, it would have been my second choice next to black on black on black (which is the fastest color combo you know :rolleyes:)

6MT


You got that right. I haven't driven a manual since 2001, and with this one, you really have to know how to do it right, which I totally suck at right now....

DCT would have been my choice. I found another used '08 w/ DCT here, but it had 50K miles!!

Thanks Scoop!!!! It's a 2011. Love it.

bragger :smash:

lol

I gotta learn to launch this biatch tho....right now it feels slower than my C55.

Do not be afraid to take it to 8.3k.

Seems to me, if you have room to actually do full 0-60, then you have more than enough room to to let a car rev out. Numbers are numbers. Yes, mag testers do tend to be pretty hard on the car when they test (launch control, dumping clutch from 4k, etc), but like E and others have said, a dual clutch auto will be able to meet the numbers just as easy as the full auto Benz does.

Now, in an impromptu roll on type race, a car with more torque might have the initial advantage, but again, if the road is long enough to get up to highway speeds, then the car with the hp/lb advantage or gearing advantages will catch up.

well said. I'd be lucky to see 5.2 up to now. However, a buddy of mine at work asked me if I'd engaged the "M" button and set the EDC to "Sport", and I'm like wha?? (see, I haven't even read the Owners Manual yet), so I just took it out at lunch and put it in that mode. wow. big difference. Throttle response is where I'd expect it now....

Damn, that had to put you back...:eek:

Sure. Except you look downright silly revving to 9k going to get a gallon of milk. Not to mention the NVH associated with astronomical revs will really wear you down pretty quickly.

Its a question of driver effort and stress. Hitting the number in a torquey car is low stress, hitting the same number in a screamer is hard work and stressful.

How well does the "auto" mode work in your car? The wife would have required that mode if I had one with DCT. With the manual, she's less likely to take it.

BTW, I almost pulled the trigger on an '11 S4, but it sold 2 days b4 I had a chance to test drive it. The wife absolutely fell in love with that car, but pimped out and new, it was alot more than this car.

Sport EDC is too harsh, I like Normal when driving agressively and stay in Comfort most of the time.

The power button doesn't add power it just increases throttle response. BTW you can set the car to startup in a particular power and EDC mode.

The M button tailors these settings so you can drive along how you would normally drive and use the M button for agressive driving. Having a 6-speed somewhat reduces the need for the M button, some of the settings pertain to DCT shift agressiveness.

Wasn't cheap!! Sticker was $76k. She's fully loaded.

Auto works well, just let it do it's thing. Have you had some seat time in a DCT equiped car? Just let me know and I'll shoot down there this weekend!! The question here is, do you want your wife to take out the M3?? HAHA.

Ouch. C63 out of the question? Note: the last time I had the benz in (replaced cracked rearview mirror blinker) I browsed the showroom and they had a C63 for like 82K, well loaded.

Absolutely considered the C63. Wonderful car. Brutish acceleration. I just liked the M3 better.

Next couple weeks are shot for me, with business travel and vaca to follow.....

Never driven a DCT, just an SMGII once.

The wife gave the M3 a test drive and did o.k., but shifted WAY too soon, like 2.5K (!) I kept coaching, but that's just her.

The total driving experience, brakes, handling, etc. is pretty damn impressive.

You see the Top Gear clip of the C63 vs RS4 vs M3 vs some old F1 car? Guess who won.

just tell her to shift when she thinks the engine is about to explode through the hood. I'm kidding.

C63 is an absolute maniac in a straight line. With the 030 development package and LSD, it's very quick around a track too.

Hahaha, that was a funny episode. If I remember right, the C63 ate its rear tires in just a few laps. lol

The 6.2 may be short lived though. When do we see the 5.5 TT in the C? God damn Mercedes and its ridiculously short model lifespan playing havoc with resale.

The C63 is hard-core, fish-tailing like crazy everywhere! I think they said something like "you're happy when you get out of that car alive".

The M will be a TT V6 next as well, I think. Hopefully the gas mileage will improve.

does it have a CDV? there's a way to get rid of that if you do.

+1. CDV delete is a must in a 6 speed.

like I said, I don't actually "own" this car yet, I'm still on a 5-day trial period. I have an appointment with BMW Fri afternoon to give it a good check-out. I'll make my decision after that.

There is but it's not restrictive and doesn't need modification on e9x M3's

Don't laugh, I'm a noob. What's CDV?

my friend with an e92 335i was thinking about doing it. easier than i thought.

clutch delay valve

Off topic: Hey, Eric, I was browsing around and M3 site, M3forum.net, and I found some posts from Pete (AMGPower). Looks like he sold his e46...??

Ahhhhhhh.....thx.

Yeah Pete sold his E46 M3. He's got an Audi of some flavor now.

for old times sake.

TOP!!!!!!!!!!!

so it lets you launch past 4k? i'm not familiar with the one in the e9x m3, i heard the e46 m3 had one.

nice.:bow:

not sure about the 6MT, the DCT Launch control dumps at up to 5K I beleive.

The 6MT is faaaaaar superior. I can dump it at 7K.

LOL! and it's slower than your C55?!

Did you go right from your C350 to the M?

Sorta, I still have the C350. Trying to sell it.

Man, the other day, I was just getting off work and a black M3 with the plates E90 M3 pulled next to me, I Soooooooo wanted to race, but we're on a main street with lots of people and traffic, so I'm like can't do it. He kinda took off like he wanted to race, but I held back.

Then about 3 blocks later, were two cops parked just outside their car. PHEW!!
Then about 4 more blocks, the light turned Yellow and I stopped, he floored it, so I lost him. DAMN!

Congrats on the car, I LOVE the way those cars look!
:y

Thanks! If it checks out with the dealer tomorrow, I'll keep it......else maybe I'll lean towards an S4. We'll see.

I'm sure you'll get your chance to race one another day. Good luck!

STEVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

'sup, Vinh! How's life?

Life is good! Glad to see you're still in the car scene. I'm in my sophomore year of college now! Time flies huh.

What have you been up to?

I have an '09 E90 M3 and love it. Definitly a better car than the C55, no offense to anyone here, C55 is sweet, but the E9X M3 takes it any day, C63 is another story.

+1, gotta agree with you on that one, IN Real World driving and having owned a diesel, Torque is king!!

Takes it any day in what regard?? Be specific, or as my kids say, Pacific??

^^ You sound like you've driven my old S2000?? Hard work, nah, stressful, yes!!

Dump the 55 and contact HPF. You won't be missing anything. Promise!:naughty:

I would hope so. Any new next generation car should be better than the previous generation. The C55's primary competition was the E46 M3...

You think so? I always thought the e92 was more aggressive. Even though I prefer the e90.

Difference between SMG and DCT? Former 05 M3 owner.

M3's are really good for haulin too

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog..../m3-pickup.jpg

Others have answered as well - Clutch Delay Valve.

Here you go - all you need to know. Have a read here:

http://www.zeckhausen.com/CDV.htm

Had one in my '01 540i and once I learned about it I had it removed.

You need to be careful because removing it can result in warranty issues - should you have a problem with the trans. You should remove and replace with one that has the internals removed - such as the one Dave Z. sells.

SMG is a single clutch, electro-hydraulically actuated manual transmission

DCT (aka DKG, PDK) uses dual clutches, one for even gears and another for odd gears. Shifts are near instantaneous as the gearbox is essentially always in 2 gears at the same time. When an upshift or downshift occurs, the next gear is selected, and driveline power is switched by engaging the opposing clutch while disengaging the other clutch at the same time.

The E9x M3's DCT is manufactured by Getrag and is similar to the unit used by Ferrari in the California.

Like old times on this thread....welcome back, scoop!

Woot!! :bow:

Oh, and topp lol....

Nicely done Chappy

this is wayyyy before my time.lol

Except Chappy he's ditching the C55 and going to the dark side.............Jerry of EC did the same to us about a year ago with his M5............

Defectors should not be allowed back!!!:naughty:

At least Jerry is still making other MB's faster and faster!

You are correct. IN fact, just got off the phone with him and hoping to get the Kleemann tuned on a dyno when he comes to Chicago soon :rolleyes:

Problem is, he's also making the M3/5 faster as well!!

I just beat an E90 M3 the other day....nice car but the M3's don't compare to the AMG's IMO

wtf??? I feel stupid now for not keeping up with BMW. This sounds... AWESOME. I take it a lot of the clunkiness of the SMG is no more? Any downsides?

DAMN right I did... Im a benz guy, lack of torque was really killing me... Car looked fantastic, especially in the trim it was in before I sold it... but unless you rev the nuts off the car, it didnt move for ****!

It was the shortest time I have owned a car ever!!! I will say 1 thing though, I bought the car for 25,500 and sold it for 23k with its goodies... I have never bought and sold a car with such a close margin... Going back to an AMG car as soon as I get my business off the ground...

we all come back at some point... I learned my lesson, should have bought an E55 so many years ago and skipped the M3, although it was somewhat fun...

all of the clunkiness is gone... SMG technology is old, DCT is the new hotness... if for some reason it fails though, these trans units are like $15k+ and not just any shop can replace them or rebuild them

take one for a spin you won't be dissapointed.

What you are feeling is probably real. If a 6MT E9x M3 is starting off the line without a proper high rpm launch, a C55 could very well be ahead at the beginning. In fact, there are numbers to show this.

Car & Driver is the only magazine that does the rolling 5-60mph timed acceleration run. This represents what most people do on the streets, as it would be foolish to routinely drop the clutch from a high rpm launch, which is what is always done to get the fastest acceleration runs from a standing start (the typical 0-60mph, 0-120mph, 1/4 mile, etc).

2007 test: E92 M3 6 speed manual: 5-60mph: 5.1 seconds
2005 test: C55 AMG 5-60mph: 4.9 seconds

There is no doubt that the E9x M3 will catch up and overtake the C55 at higher speeds, but at the beginning, the C55 likely could be ahead at 60mph and beyond.

This applies to rolling starts at highway speeds too. The E9x M3 is all about being in the proper gear and being high in the rpm range to get that maximum push you back in the seat feel for maximum acceleration, whereas AMG cars like the C55 and C63 have abundant torque lower down in the rpm range, which is more easily accessible. Different power delivery, and different type of fun.

I personally love the E90 M3. If I didn't love my C55 so much as a "do everything" type of car that keeps me looking good at lapping days, I would have gotten a E90 M3 already with M-DCT and adaptive dampers (the two things which I wish the C63 has).

Damn. SMG was great, but was real clunky for me for daily driving. DCT sounds great... and kind of scary. Hear anything about longevity?

Thats what I am afraid of.

We’ll rightly need to compare their Nürburgring Nordschleife times as basis for comparison purposes. ;)

Check out 4:57 of this video. Car drops from 7th to 5th. Keep in mind this is a slow shift because it's droping 2 gears so you lose the dual clutch advantage. Still ultra fast. Don't blink.

Here's launch control. Yes the US version gets this launch control enabled, no warrany concerns and you can use it as many times as you want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJqrtHSd0y0

The 1-2 shift is rough because the car is still trying to get traction and chirps into 2nd gear. DCT slams into gears at full throttle in S6 mode, it's pretty violent. The rest of the shifts are as you would expect, listen closely you can hear the engine back on the throttle and putting down power before the needle can get down to the RPM it's supposed to be at.

^ No doubt BMW’s DCT in S6 mode is a remarkable fete of engineering prowess.

Nice brake check at 7:35!

Yeah the guy is driving like an idiot, but it was the best example of a downshift I could find. A single gear downshift is even quicker, once you pull the left paddle it's done. Hey John you should take my car out for a spin next time!

Forget all this M3 talk. Put the DCT in the 1M and I will get in line! :) Now, that's something I would like, 360 ft-lbs at 1700 with overboost! True M suspension, smaller package, 150 lbs lighter. Ugly as my dog's butt, but hey what the heck.

C'mon....we're a big family here. :y

I too like the torque at take off in the C55.
At higher speed other fast cars can probably take me.
At really high speeds it can change again...

It reminds me of last summer at Autobahn when I
raced a Porche Carrera S Cab with 385 hp:
(We´re talking about speeds above 125 mph, up
to 160 approx.)
When I was in the front, he couldn´t really catch
up. When he was in front I could catch him up!

That shows, in my eyes, that the huge high compression
high revving V8 is a real Autobahnkiller AT REALLY HIGH
SPEEDS! His smaller pancake-engine couldn´t match the
big raceinspired AMG M113 at those awesome speeds...
Torque is king!
:naughty:


I was both impressed and surprised over the fact but
it all makes sense at the bottom line.
Unfortunately I can´t experience that too often since
I don´t live in Germany, I can´t utilize that upper hand.

//P.

[QUOTE=55fanatic;4576758]we all come back at some point... I learned my lesson, should have bought an E55 so many years ago and skipped the M3, although it was somewhat fun...

Welcome back, at least temporarily.........


Not that I'm telling you anything you don't know but find yourself a 06 E55 and mod it..........a virtual torque monster or a C63 with the P30 or P31...........

Good for you for stickin with school, and no, I can't believe you're already a sophmore! I think you were in like 9th grade when we started whorin it up.

I've been driving it now for 4 days, and I'm starting to agree with you. Yet every time I drive home and see the C55 parked in the garage I think, man, do I really want to sell this sucker? Tell you what tho, I think the AMG definately gets more looks......

...well, I think 1/4 mile for one thing:

From AsianML:

C55 AMG
363hp/376lb-ft @ 4000rpm
3,605lbs
9.93lbs/hp
Fastest stock time on dragtimes: 13.2s @ 107.3mph


E92 M3
414hp/296lb-ft tq
3,704lbs
8.9lbs/hp
Fastest stock time on dragtimes: 12.510s @ 114.8mph

Once again, it takes a little brains and skill to optimize the M. The AMG, just make sure it hooks up, and mash it!

[QUOTE=Newzchspy;4577156]Well, when the time comes to purchase(hoping mid summer) I'm looking at a cls55 or an 05/06 E55... For now I have an old A4 that feels like it has more torque than my m3

Wow, awesome website. Thanks for pointing it out. Seeing alot for the E46 as compared to teh E9x tho....

I would have to agree. E92, way better...:(

tell me that's not real......

Chapster! What up dog!

LOL. The OG whores are aligning!

He wasn't trying, or like me, didn't know how to drive it yet....:rolleyes:

Yeah, well that was just an E46. Nice car for it's time but my how times have changed....

Good to hear from you, Pete!

How you been bud?

Check out THIS LINK.

Also, there is bolt-on tuning potential with the e9x platform. Full exhaust, tune, pulley and filter can net substantial gains.

Good, bro. Your comment about being a Benz guy.......I hear ya, my heart is still with AMG, incredible machines. I wasn't even shopping for an M3, and this thing just thing just popped up, good price, spotless and only 15K miles. Hard to pass up.

w...t...f... you're not helping!!!!

I still have my C55, yet I have my E90 M3 too :D love it!

Like listed above, a better/fairer comparison would be the C63 to the E9X and the C55 to the E46

I'd say do it! E90 M3 Sedan has beautiful lines!

Damn:bow:

Though, I think I would prefer the C55 and E92 M! :naughty:

oh no, sedan all the way. Sedan E90 m3 is so much more aggressive looking, and RARE compared to every other M3 out! (coupes!)

SCOOP??? Where the hell have you been? Hope all is well with you! Eric told me you were back! Woot! :y



Stay with the Benz. :D Am I too late?

It is...

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1786/caught-testing-bmw-m3-pickup/

Hey, Jen! Good to hear from you!

Well, this is all a moot point now. I returned the M3 on Saturday. I'm crushed. Like I said, I had a 5-day trial period, and I made an appointment with BMW of San Diego on Fri afternoon. I paid them $139 to give the car a top-to-bottom inspection and also asked for an experienced driver to take it out for a spin. See, what I noticed was when the gears engaged, especially from 1st to 2nd, I could hear a could hear/feel a slight "clunk", very very small, but still. Initially the service tech said that was probably normal, being a hardcore gearbox and all.

They came back and said the tranny was making a slight irregular sound when in neutral, and it needed to be investigated. They said a minimum of 5 days in the shop to troubleshoot, and didn't know if the problem was minor or major at that point. I began to weep (jk). They noted that it was covered under factory warranty, so it would be no cost to me.

I went home, called some BMW buddies, and slept on it. I just didn't want to get into major warranty work right from the get-go, so I returned it the next day. I told the guy at CarMax about what BMW found, and he said that they would have to get it checked out by them. It was back on thier website for sale the next day!! Jerks.:bs:

Oh well, the way I look at it is I got to rent a b1tchin M3 for a week for $139. If I decide to buy a new one, at least I had some time behind the wheel, since being able to test drive a new M3 is forbidden around here.

Back on the market I guess. Any suggestions?

BMW Ms are known for driveline clunk. Its usually a prop shaft/guibo/center carrier bearing issue.

Of course your issue could be entirely different, but the annoying jerky final drive is one reason I gave it up.

yea, go into hibernation mode until the facelift c63 comes out :y then pick up one of those. the interior is ten times better than the current one!

Scoop that suuuucks!

How about E60 M5? I am sure you can pick a 2008 for around mid 40K now. Get an extended warranty and you're set!

Buy a E55 AMG nothing else compares :)

I know, dood, it totally blows. I thought for sure after I decided to return it, the wife would be all over checking out a new S4 again, and she said, meh...I'm not so interested in that car anymore(!!) (chicks, pfft).

A buddy of mine at work here is going to check out a '10 M3 w/ DCT and 10K miles tonight, $58K.

Piss me off if he gets it......

I should have stepped up to an E55 instead when I bought my C55.

Lol, just let me know when you want to borrow my coupe. I can drive the C350 for a while.

Get an S65!

+1

Porsche. Turbo.