Vomit

Jeeeezuuuuuus. How old are we all here?

The facts are well-known. . . the M3 will blow my C32 away in the twisties.

In a straight, it will be very close, depending on the particular vehicles (actually, my C32 is modded, so it will not be very close).

Taking a couple of passengers from Diego to Vegas, the C32 will win.

Stock appearance, I would have to give it to the M3.

It's really not that complicated people!

If you want a true auto and 4 doors, buy the C32 (view it as a bargain M5). If you want a Corvette with more refinement that can transport 4 people, buy the M3.

The two cars each have their own niche. Disputing between the two is idiotic. . . much like arguing whether a 747 or the space shuttle is a superior form of air transportation.

It's like some bloke with a hot-looking redhead wife ragging on his neighbor for having a hot-looking blondie stripper babe.

It's all good, baaaaaby. I'll take the redhead for a run when you get tired of her (and you take my blondie, but just promise to bring her back!!).

Man, you guys are psycho.

SiLvaC32

yea...

exactly why i don't like to get into this kind of discussions.

Thai

I have never said anything other than what Vomit wrote. Good post.

aberrill

Hi M&M greetings from South Africa as well, there is one question no one seems to ask when comparing any BMW to the BENZ and that is what is the car like after 100,000 km.

Now unless im totally biased towards the Benz I can tell you that just about every BMW that I have driven is starting to fall apart at this mileage. For some reason South Africa is BMW mad but I like to keep my cars for a high mileage for this reason I will never buy BMW.

(However if I could afford to replace my cars every 50,000 km I would be tempted to go the BMW route)

Thai

You actually think that one of the new Benz will last past 100k kilometers??!! BMW and Benz are NOT Toyotas! Neither one will last a long time. BTW, i am not sure if you saw this in S. Africa, but Benz are way below average in quality and reliability/durability by ALL surveys!! BMW is above average, but no where near Toyota/Lexus and Infiniti/Nissan.

The ONLY Benz that i would trust are the older models (more than 10 years ago)...the newer Benz are lacking in quality & reliability. This is pretty much fact.

I will never keep my M3 past 100K miles (which is when my engine warranty runs out)! I don't trust it. However, i will keep my 4runner for a long time...that thing is built with care!

Again, "people in glass houses should not throw rocks...."

Jon200

Depends which Toyota your talking about. Some of the lower models to have enormous quality problems after 3 or 4 years of ownership.

Zeppelin

pokerFACE

what's with all the name calling anyway?

Fikse

http://www.dragtimes.com/compare2.ph...submit=Compare

carl

just wondering how many bmw and mb you owned before thai...

bmw won't last as long as MB, every of their parts are not as heavy duty than MB, and when bmw exceed 100000, you will know what aberill talking about.

perhaps engine needs to be replaced at 110000km lol, well that's my 740iL. and every part inside seem fragile... TONS of electronical problems...

well, i never had any major problem on mercedes before until i reached 300000 km. which the E300 engine needs to be rebuilt, so does the tranny.

think why the resell value of BMW is lower!
and their design don't last as long as MB...
look at X5 now... their look seem outdated already.
how many new 7 series you saw out there compared to S?

i'm not trying to disgrace you... just speaking fact here...

Thai

Well, according to Marko, this forum is sooo "different" or "mature" than the BMW forums. Hypocrisy at it's best!

Ban me?? For what?? For agreeing that M3 and C32 are equal in acceleration?? For disputing the 100 car lengths stories??

BTW, i am not even "Thai". You know what people say when you ASSUME things.

carl

we never think you are THAI, because you are from TX, where the cowboys are...

but i agree with you that people from this forum are different, they are people with super high respect/attitude, and they don't give a shxt no matter they are wrong or right... they are hard to along with sometimes...

alright guys, stop this thread!:o

we have the $ to buy m3 and they have the $ buy our c32...
they are just different cars in different pool...

Thai

Proof of your "facts"?? Electrical problem? Did you just say, "electrical problem"?? Have you not read about MB/DC problems?? Or do you turn the other way??

Have you not seen the tumbling Benz's quality & reliability ratings on EVERY surveys (JD Powers, Consumer Reports, etc.)?? What are you talking about?

At least, BMW is above average...for now.

Parts are higher quality?? That's a joke, right?? Again, are you just ignoring recent articles on this very topic criticizing MB/DC's cheap tactics to get the cheapest parts into their cars?? This is from the SUPPLIERS themselves! Oh no, this is not from BMW or Lexus...this is from the horse's mouth!

And don't even compare new Benz models with any of Toyota/Honda stuff in terms of reliability!

I will admit to you...older Benz's are awesome! Built like a tank and runs forever, easily surpassing BMW and even Toyota products.

When was the C32 design...and now C55. What's the resale value on C32 as compared to M3?? I highly doubt that M3 is lower...probably the same or M3 has a slight advantage (my guess). As far as i can tell, E46 M3 will remain the same design and powertrain until the next M4 in 2007.

Sorry if i am busting your burble...just stating facts here.

vraa

Benz went down in quality surveys because of the W163. Remember that JD Powers conducts stats of cars a few years old, which happens to be right when the W163 came out.

CSL is sweet car.

M3's are fast, but they come with a presence of .. ****iness which the C32 doesn't have, that doesn't mean it's slower or faster, it's just because it's a BMW that looks mean.

You can't compare BMW / Mercedes with the reliability with Toyota. You can't compare the reliability of Honda with Toyota's either.

The G-Wag is nice, but only an idiot would cross shop a W463 and an X5.

Vomit: Can I borrow the Blonde for a day or two? I'll return her washed and waxed

Edit: You *******s, I'm from Texas too!

pokerFACE

no i didnt mean ban YOU

Ahmed

I BEG YOUR PARDON??????

vraa

It's not a bad thing that it's a bargin M5. Those 5's are wicked fast!

s4iscool

Oh please.

aberrill

Thai, I agree with you re: the lower quality of the current Benzes, (I had to trade in my 2002 C Class Coupe for a 2003 C Class Coupe due to all the niggling problems and continuous rattles.)

So yes the Benz is down on Quality but it will still designed to last the test of time, BMW is not. Carl is right, the Benz components are heavy duty and better designed. Go to a scrap yard where they have old BMW and Benz’s you will see what we are talking about.

The current niggling problems Merc are having are unacceptable and have to be addresses but don’t get this confused with the wearing out and failing of components. BMW start failing after 100,000 km. Merc`s just keep clocking up the mileage. I do not trust a BMW over 100,000 km it just gets too expensive and is unpredictable.

Carl I suspect BMW actually design their cars to date fast. Similar to women’s fashion, you cant be seen dead in last years model, So you have to upgrade. BMW beats Mercs hands down in the Marketing and Image department I have to give them this.

Ahmed

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa shaaaaaaaaaraaaap !

Thai

Uhh, do you anything to back up the stuff that was just written?? Like i said, the new Benz's are nothing to write home about in terms of quality and reliability.

Maybe i can find that article where the SUPPLIERS for MB/DC are complaining about how MB find the cheapest suppliers to supply their cars!

EDIT: as the next post shows, I HAVE PROOF for my statements.

Thai

Some suppliers say DaimlerChrysler isn't playing fair as it pushes for lower parts prices Mercedes-Benz risks losing technology leadership, according to survey respondents

Monday, March 1 2004

DESPITE MERCEDES-BENZ'S highly-publicized quality problems, a new SupplierBusiness.com satisfaction survey suggests that quality demands are well down the list of priorities at DaimlerChrysler.

The company is far more interested in squeezing lower prices from
suppliers than improving quality, according to the survey results.
Suppliers say DaimlerChrysler is using business management tools such as its Materials Cost Management (MCM) system solely to drive costs down. That harms relationships and undercuts suppliers' ability to sustain their business, they say.

MCM, (formerly SCORE, Supplier Cost Reduction Effort) was set up as "an avenue for suppliers to make suggestions to reduce price without it hurting supplier margins," said one North American supplier. But in practice, the supplier said, DaimlerChrysler rarely approves engineering changes. "Then it says that since [a supplier] didn't meet MCM goals through Engineering Change proposals," it must part with "hard money to make up
the difference."

Mercedes-Benz has been the technology leader through the 1990s. Mercedes cars were the first fitted with ESP (from Bosch); first to get common rail diesel (Bosch); first to get adaptive cruise control (Continental AG); and second only to BMW with navigation systems.

But when "customer focus is price driven and there is no consideration for past contributions," there is a risk that suppliers will take their business to customers who will reward innovation and R&D investment, said suppliers in the survey.

Respondents also say that DaimlerChrysler deals too aggressively with individual suppliers. Purchasing departments will "intentionally play one supplier against another," to get costs down, according to one respondent. "It is a one way street" with DaimlerChrysler, said the suppler executive.

Another manager from a major German supplier said "partnership regarding cost saving ideas is just a phrase." DaimlerChrysler's other main cost management tool is Linear Performance
Pricing (LPP). DaimlerChrysler uses it to plot the prices of every
"like" part on a graph. The average of the lowest 20% of prices creates a best practice price line.

"Then they call you into a room with 30 DaimlerChrysler people ... and ask why all your pricing is above the line," said one North American supplier. "The fact that you won a competitive bid ... is not a relevant fact."

Several respondents said that LPP methodology is suspect, and worse, that suppliers called in for LPP review "are not allowed to even analyse the data ... since it is deemed confidential. [DaimlerChrysler] does not give you enough information to defend yourself in detail."

Many suppliers say they don't trust DaimlerChrysler to reward good ideas. One North American powertrain supplier said that DaimlerChrysler took its "MCM idea and provided it to the current supplier to quote the same idea and keep the business."

Survey respondents said that only undermines successful collaboration; it slows technological progress because "partners" are hesitant to keep good ideas flowing to their customers.
Several suppliers responding to the survey said that demands for price cuts "without any regard to quality, design, reliability [or]
performance," will only hurt DaimlerChrysler in the longer run.



Notice where BMW is??? Yup.

Thai

Why not?? How about comparing a Lexus IS300's reliability with that of C230/320?? Same class. Sure, a bit different purpose, but same class and price range.

Why not compare G500 vs. X54.8 vs. Lexus LX470?? Sure, different purposes but same price range. Let me tell you, there are plenty of people comparing these vehicles...i would even say that MOST buyers in this price range do look at these vehicles at one time during their buying process.

For example, i am currently comparing G500 vs. LX470 vs. Range Rover...and i do off-road (as you can see at my 4runner forum). Because of horrific stories of G500's electrical problems (see Benzworld.org forum), i am down to LX vs. RR. These problems matter...because i certainly don't want to be stuck in "limp-home mode" in the middle of a mud ditch!! For the very same reason, i am leaning toward LX470 over RR.

It does matter.

carl

haha yeah Aberill, but BMW has no heritage Benz do because their cars are no good.
i will never buy a bmw again... they are crap... they do not last...
i had a few land rovers too... they are piece of **** because they are built by BMW too. Every oil changes have major problems. They won't know what we experienced, and the amount the cars we had.

BTW THAI, QUALITY is differ than RELIABILITY. The reliability might not be too good recent years for MB. But i can tell ya QUALITY of MB is way better than BMW. All the design, material used and craftmanship are better than bmw. fOR EXAMPLE, bmw only have 7-11 spray of paint on their car, but our car have miniumn of 15 sprays. Belive or not, VW has more layers of paint than BMW.

other examples, go to the junk yard to see the differences your self. check the interior and all the design. bmw are craps.
another exampl, bmw's leather worn out very quick, mb leather seats easily last 30 years with no cracks and worn spots.

i was a bmw owner too dude, and i had more bmws than you do. and mercedes? i had 20 before C to CL class. and i'm sure my 1955 220 and 1958 190sl has better reliaibililty than any bmw made lol

Thai

Oh yeah, is that why the C55 is coming out now??