reggid

Do we?

Jon200

Hvn't heard anything about the 6.3L in the C but there is definitely an all new 6.3L V8 being developed.

My guess would be the next C55 AMG will get a major power boost, 4 valves, VVT, Variable intake, all the usual techs should be found in the next C AMG.

cntlaw

Nice to hear many opinions here on this thread.
Frankly speaking, not a easy decision on this buy or not buy C55.

Is the birth of C55 is a tactical move or strategic move? The 5.5L 362hp was built for the CLK ~2 yrs back. God knows whether MB at that time already had the vision to 'upgrade' the C AMG facelift of C32 to C55. They might or they might not. But a good guess is we can be pretty sure that the 5.5 is a strategy engine for SL and may be for the E W211 and CLK.

Is the C55 idea coming from the marketing diviision or from the engineering division? Would it be when it came to the time when MB had started to plan their C facelift, the marketing department had asked the AMG engineering division:"Hey guys , can we give everyone a surprise to upgrade the engine on the coming C AMG facelift ? Or did they ask " Hey guys, the new M3 V8 is coming, can we deliver a V8 to the new gen of C , and can you guys do it earlier so that we take some of the M3 market share before the M3 hits us !"
And the AMG manager said " Let's try".

Above is what I think if it is true , the C55 is a tactical move.
In real life, a tactical move can end up to be a strategic move. Because after all, if an existing engine does the job, why in such a hurry to built a new one.

Unless, MB is already aggressive to have a big bite on the M3 market, than a lighter weight smaller size 4 valve is the true strategic engine King for C and CLK.

All confusings to me.....

cnt

viper

I have to agree with you. The new and improved V8 based M3 is not here so this buys MB some market share. When the new M3 appears I would not be surprised if MB bumps the HP to compensate. If they had kept the V6 from the C32 they would have had a problem making it compete with a V8 powered M3.

amb9800

The E55 officially puts out 469HP, but it's the same setup as in the SL55K, S55K, CL55K, etc., which officially put out 493HP.

The 65's put out way more power -- and there's no E65 in the works as far as I know - that would be insane. The 65's generate more than 600HP The replacement for the current 5.5L Kompressor engines is a 6.3L N-A V8 that will likely put out 500-600HP depending on the model.

cntlaw

Yes. You got my point. C32/C55 were not built to win the M3 market, but a slice of its pie. The launch of CLK55 , that makes M3 to 'defense' with 400hp V8 as BMW always want to keep the M3 being the King of Mid sedan supercar.
The C55 is tactical, that is , not exactly a 'by-product' of the CLK55, but rather to say, the C and CLK will work hand in hand to bite the M3's market.

Since the C55 is 'come' from the CLK55, I would say, even when the new gen of C is available; the new gen of C AMG will not get a new and bigger engine 'earlier' than the CLK.
Otherwise, would have the adverse effect competing against each other!

May be it makes more sense to say there are 2 scenarios:-

1. the new gen of C AMG and the CLK will remain the same - with the 367hp.

2. there will be a CLK AMG facelift in 2006 which has a 400hp new engine and the new gen of C AMG will have the 400hp too.

I think it makes sense to think of the CLK first as it 's design is more appropriate to attract the Coupe lovers who would also consider M3.


cnt

viper

I would say you are absolutely correct. Since the CLK55 is essentially unchanged for 2005 I would say it would be the first to get the 400 HP engine - right when the new M3 is introduced. The C55 would probably follow the year after. The C55 just gives MB some additional market share at a time when M3 wannabees may be converted while waiting for the new model.

cntlaw

I think our assumptions are correct if what we assumed the C AMG is tactical. However, the CLK55 could be strategic. I read a mag about
BMW new 3 series and some history of the 3's. It mentions that the first M3 was built in 1988 to beat the powerful(at that time) MB 190E.
I am not following up BMW history too well. But what it means, MB was once tried to develop powerful sporty mid sedan/coupe to beat the sporty BMW E30 , and whatever what the history was, MB was not able to bite the mid sedan/coupe market like the M3 today.

The AMG is right here now and it is why it is here for.

The new M3 will only be after the launch of new 3's in 2005 , i.e. 2006.
Depending very much on market change, MB might do a facelift for its E and CLK in 2006 ! Or they don't even need to wait for a "facelift" but just simply to introduce new engines to their E AMG and CLK AMG plus the 7 speed !!

So the 600hp SL65 will replace SL55, then , the E55 can be upgraded to 500-550hp as not to have adverse effect to compete its SL.
Once the E AMG and CLS AMG get a 500-550hp engine, MB can then also upgrade their CLK and C.

It s good to think sensibly about the fundemental MB AMG principle that the top pricey class gets top performance, not the cheaper ones.
( The equal priced SL350 vs E55 do not follow this rule as they are not quite the same purposes )

cnt

miroj

I think you will find that Mercedes Benz was limited by a 50 year post WW2 treaty in what they could and could not produce. Once the treaty expired they bought Chrysler and decided to flood into every market sector in every country in the world. There is only one strategy - global leadership.

Mercedes will do everything possible to compete in every market sector. There is no need for fuzzy prediction. All the choices in design and function of the cars was made 10 years ago and is now well advanced in testing and production samples.

This includes, most powerful, most luxury, most appealing, most affordable, most economical, most recycling component percentage, most options, most colours. Whatever sells cars, they will do it.

cntlaw

I am so glad to hear that!!!
The sad thing is I already paid my fortune and possibly my MB now will be im museum in 5 years

cnt

miroj

From what I can gather in this forum, some people will make it a shrine and not a museum. :p

The car you just bought from Mercedes is around 10 years old. So imagine what is coming.

cntlaw

Really , That's good.

Ten years ago , I just got my driving license. My first car was Nissan Bluebird AR-X 2.0 140hp.
Now , I have a ten year old C55, 367 hp !!
I am so easy to be satisfied.

cheers
cnt

miroj

Well look at it this way. It only spent 2.5 years in virtual design phase prior to production. The rest of the time was spent planning and hashing out the main direction in endless board meetings and design discussions.