How much can you get out of a c43 while keeping it N\A
#26
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The C43 makes a great track day car and speaking from experience will run with cars like fully modded Mustangs, E36 M3's and lots of others. The C43 motor with underdrive pulleys, and a set of headers and high flow cats will pull on top about as hard as a 55 motor. You won't have the torque off the corners like the 55's but other than that there is not too much difference. And the E55 while a very nice car is a boat compared to a C43.
With light wheels, a Brakeman caliper and rotor set, lightweight battery and other stuff to remove weight resulted in 255 pounds of weight shed. You can feel that lost weight on every corner and straight.
Ckeck out the Brakeman calipers and brake package it is some 11 pounds lighter per side and stop on a dime, plus the caliper is way better than anything else until you get to the really high dollar Brembo and AP's, and 10 times better than what they put in the BBK's.
Ther is a guy on this site which does not use his C43/55 much and it has an almost identical suspension set-up as mine with full Penskes and adjustable spring perches. Maybe he wants to sell his set-up.
Jeff
With light wheels, a Brakeman caliper and rotor set, lightweight battery and other stuff to remove weight resulted in 255 pounds of weight shed. You can feel that lost weight on every corner and straight.
Ckeck out the Brakeman calipers and brake package it is some 11 pounds lighter per side and stop on a dime, plus the caliper is way better than anything else until you get to the really high dollar Brembo and AP's, and 10 times better than what they put in the BBK's.
Ther is a guy on this site which does not use his C43/55 much and it has an almost identical suspension set-up as mine with full Penskes and adjustable spring perches. Maybe he wants to sell his set-up.
Jeff
Thanks, will definetly look into those brakes. Who is thias guy you are talking about??
Btw i told my friend about you, he goes to the track all the time with his 911. Hed really like you to come to one of these track days even tho hes never met you
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btw are you runing the W210 E55 V8 or the version out of the W203 C55
#27
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AMG C43, 1999
https://mbworld.org/forums/performan...enz-board.html
Here is a link to the gentleman who has the set-up on his car. Penske shocks are not cheap and this set-up, while being as user friendly as possible is still set to really rip at the track. And so after a while, sharp edged bumps can start to wear on you a little. But if you are willing to adjust the shocks to a full or near full soft setting it will help a bunch. A then if you go for a hard drive on the weekend frim things up.
I have not been to many track day in the last year or so due to funds being on the real low side. This economy really sucks.
I have made up for some of my lack of track time this summer by putting on Kumho Victorracers and then going out on a Saturday or Sunday and going for a nice drive on a twisty road. Similar to what a fast sportbike rider will do on the weekends. And when I do this I have a blast. The car is so responsive, turns-in very well and really holds a line and with the stiffer rate springs, the faster you go the better it all feels.
Jeff
Here is a link to the gentleman who has the set-up on his car. Penske shocks are not cheap and this set-up, while being as user friendly as possible is still set to really rip at the track. And so after a while, sharp edged bumps can start to wear on you a little. But if you are willing to adjust the shocks to a full or near full soft setting it will help a bunch. A then if you go for a hard drive on the weekend frim things up.
I have not been to many track day in the last year or so due to funds being on the real low side. This economy really sucks.
I have made up for some of my lack of track time this summer by putting on Kumho Victorracers and then going out on a Saturday or Sunday and going for a nice drive on a twisty road. Similar to what a fast sportbike rider will do on the weekends. And when I do this I have a blast. The car is so responsive, turns-in very well and really holds a line and with the stiffer rate springs, the faster you go the better it all feels.
Jeff
Last edited by speedybenz; 02-05-2010 at 12:13 AM.
#28
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Last edited by ProjectC55; 02-05-2010 at 10:05 AM.
#29
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AMG C43, 1999
ProjectC55,
I may have over stated the speed of the C43 some, as I was thinking of when I had mine on the track and how well it went.
But your right, I know my current 55 motored C43 would motor right by a C43 even one with a little work. If I remember mine pulled out to around 110 mph at the drag strip and ran high 12's. I guess I am just used to it now and so it doesn't feel as fast as it once did.
Jeff
I may have over stated the speed of the C43 some, as I was thinking of when I had mine on the track and how well it went.
But your right, I know my current 55 motored C43 would motor right by a C43 even one with a little work. If I remember mine pulled out to around 110 mph at the drag strip and ran high 12's. I guess I am just used to it now and so it doesn't feel as fast as it once did.
Jeff
#30
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ProjectC55,
I may have over stated the speed of the C43 some, as I was thinking of when I had mine on the track and how well it went.
But your right, I know my current 55 motored C43 would motor right by a C43 even one with a little work. If I remember mine pulled out to around 110 mph at the drag strip and ran high 12's. I guess I am just used to it now and so it doesn't feel as fast as it once did.
Jeff
I may have over stated the speed of the C43 some, as I was thinking of when I had mine on the track and how well it went.
But your right, I know my current 55 motored C43 would motor right by a C43 even one with a little work. If I remember mine pulled out to around 110 mph at the drag strip and ran high 12's. I guess I am just used to it now and so it doesn't feel as fast as it once did.
Jeff
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#31
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'97 c36 amg
Please excuse my interuption...
I am a c36 owner, and race miatas and vintages at laguna, never seen a w202 track car, but I love the idea and wish I could say I will one day have the money to follow in PJ's footsteps in creating one...
My question, or curiosity is, would a c36 be a better track car? Besides the obvious lesser power and torque, and I believe the 36 is actually a little bit heavier than the 43...but Ive heard rumors the 36 is a little quicker around a track (b/c much better ballanced car with the I6 rather heavy V8 in the front?) again just a rumor Ive heard.
With this said (and if true) if you were to take a 36 and bore out the engine etc. (everything PJ is talking about/planning to do) would the 36 be a better track car?
Just a curious thought...probably not true at all.....
I am a c36 owner, and race miatas and vintages at laguna, never seen a w202 track car, but I love the idea and wish I could say I will one day have the money to follow in PJ's footsteps in creating one...
My question, or curiosity is, would a c36 be a better track car? Besides the obvious lesser power and torque, and I believe the 36 is actually a little bit heavier than the 43...but Ive heard rumors the 36 is a little quicker around a track (b/c much better ballanced car with the I6 rather heavy V8 in the front?) again just a rumor Ive heard.
With this said (and if true) if you were to take a 36 and bore out the engine etc. (everything PJ is talking about/planning to do) would the 36 be a better track car?
Just a curious thought...probably not true at all.....
#32
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I believe it is the engine that is in fact the heavier part, so I wouldn't say that the I-6 makes a better balanced car. I think you're going to be changing out the same things on both cars for a truly good track car, ie brakes, suspension, etc to where they are going to be pretty equivalent in those departments. So the big thing would come down to how you like your power delivered and if you're looking to modify the engine, how you would like to go about it. Despite the rather persistent (and unnecessary) bickering that has popped up lately comparing the two, they really aren't that different.
So to summarize, I don't think one or the other makes a better track car per say, it is really up to the individual. And really, neither makes a good track car in the grand scheme unless you are someone who likes to be different. And yes, I am and would also like to build up my 43 or perhaps a second one at some point.
So to summarize, I don't think one or the other makes a better track car per say, it is really up to the individual. And really, neither makes a good track car in the grand scheme unless you are someone who likes to be different. And yes, I am and would also like to build up my 43 or perhaps a second one at some point.
#33
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https://mbworld.org/forums/performan...enz-board.html
Here is a link to the gentleman who has the set-up on his car. Penske shocks are not cheap and this set-up, while being as user friendly as possible is still set to really rip at the track. And so after a while, sharp edged bumps can start to wear on you a little. But if you are willing to adjust the shocks to a full or near full soft setting it will help a bunch. A then if you go for a hard drive on the weekend frim things up.
I have not been to many track day in the last year or so due to funds being on the real low side. This economy really sucks.
I have made up for some of my lack of track time this summer by putting on Kumho Victorracers and then going out on a Saturday or Sunday and going for a nice drive on a twisty road. Similar to what a fast sportbike rider will do on the weekends. And when I do this I have a blast. The car is so responsive, turns-in very well and really holds a line and with the stiffer rate springs, the faster you go the better it all feels.
Jeff
Here is a link to the gentleman who has the set-up on his car. Penske shocks are not cheap and this set-up, while being as user friendly as possible is still set to really rip at the track. And so after a while, sharp edged bumps can start to wear on you a little. But if you are willing to adjust the shocks to a full or near full soft setting it will help a bunch. A then if you go for a hard drive on the weekend frim things up.
I have not been to many track day in the last year or so due to funds being on the real low side. This economy really sucks.
I have made up for some of my lack of track time this summer by putting on Kumho Victorracers and then going out on a Saturday or Sunday and going for a nice drive on a twisty road. Similar to what a fast sportbike rider will do on the weekends. And when I do this I have a blast. The car is so responsive, turns-in very well and really holds a line and with the stiffer rate springs, the faster you go the better it all feels.
Jeff
Yea I feel you. I used to do that too but I have to get my front end taken care of. Need bushings and all types of stuff down there. Im keeping my driving to a minimum right now
Used to hit canyons till 5 in the mornin on weekends lol, till rotors started glowing red
What kinda tires do you usually run btw??
#34
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Please excuse my interuption...
I am a c36 owner, and race miatas and vintages at laguna, never seen a w202 track car, but I love the idea and wish I could say I will one day have the money to follow in PJ's footsteps in creating one...
My question, or curiosity is, would a c36 be a better track car? Besides the obvious lesser power and torque, and I believe the 36 is actually a little bit heavier than the 43...but Ive heard rumors the 36 is a little quicker around a track (b/c much better ballanced car with the I6 rather heavy V8 in the front?) again just a rumor Ive heard.
With this said (and if true) if you were to take a 36 and bore out the engine etc. (everything PJ is talking about/planning to do) would the 36 be a better track car?
Just a curious thought...probably not true at all.....
I am a c36 owner, and race miatas and vintages at laguna, never seen a w202 track car, but I love the idea and wish I could say I will one day have the money to follow in PJ's footsteps in creating one...
My question, or curiosity is, would a c36 be a better track car? Besides the obvious lesser power and torque, and I believe the 36 is actually a little bit heavier than the 43...but Ive heard rumors the 36 is a little quicker around a track (b/c much better ballanced car with the I6 rather heavy V8 in the front?) again just a rumor Ive heard.
With this said (and if true) if you were to take a 36 and bore out the engine etc. (everything PJ is talking about/planning to do) would the 36 be a better track car?
Just a curious thought...probably not true at all.....
#35
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83 500SEC, 87 300D, 02 C32(x2), 02 C320T (x2), 03 C320T4, 03 C320T, 03 E55, 05 E320CDI, 06 E320CDI
You bet the M113 is lighter then a M104. Aluminum block vs a cast iron block.
Also if you see any more room to bore the already overbored 3.6 104.941 block, let me know![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Also if you see any more room to bore the already overbored 3.6 104.941 block, let me know
![Wink](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
![](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/johnhef/97_C36/IMG_003-2.jpg)
#36
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83 500SEC, 87 300D, 02 C32(x2), 02 C320T (x2), 03 C320T4, 03 C320T, 03 E55, 05 E320CDI, 06 E320CDI
I bought my C36 to use as a track car to replace the 500SEC I had been using for track events. All it took to convince me was borrowing someone elses C280 for a track day last September and I was hooked! The search was on for a C36.
Here's a few pics and vid of the previous car:
![](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/johnhef/84%20500SEC%20Euro/Summit08042.jpg)
![](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/johnhef/84%20500SEC%20Euro/IMG_2770.jpg)
...and some 202 content, heres the in-car vid of the C280 on the track in New Jersey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VW9P9xVSb0
Here's a few pics and vid of the previous car:
![](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/johnhef/84%20500SEC%20Euro/Summit08042.jpg)
![](http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y159/johnhef/84%20500SEC%20Euro/IMG_2770.jpg)
...and some 202 content, heres the in-car vid of the C280 on the track in New Jersey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VW9P9xVSb0
Last edited by johnhef; 02-11-2010 at 07:02 PM.
#37
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If the OP wants to read a thread about N/A C43 tuning here's one involving my car from last year - https://mbworld.org/forums/c36-amg-c...oject-c43.html
#38
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AMG C43, 1999
For the summer I use the Kumho Victorracers they have a great amount of grip and last a pretty good amount of time. I run a 255/40/17 front tire and a 275/40/17 rear tire. You can drive them on the street much harder than any other tire I have been on and they are very predictable. When I start to make them slide just a little I know I am going real fast and should back it down a notch.
Over the last couple of years I too have been slowly replacing all the rubber bushings and driveline connectors. I want to keep the car handling sharp and crisp and hope that by keeping up with the maintenice I can keep it that way. So far so good.
Jeff
Over the last couple of years I too have been slowly replacing all the rubber bushings and driveline connectors. I want to keep the car handling sharp and crisp and hope that by keeping up with the maintenice I can keep it that way. So far so good.
Jeff
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83 500SEC, 87 300D, 02 C32(x2), 02 C320T (x2), 03 C320T4, 03 C320T, 03 E55, 05 E320CDI, 06 E320CDI
Victorracers are pretty good, I had the 700's and 710's and they held up quite well on my big car. 275/40/17's front and rear. Last season I went to Toyo R888's and loved them!
#40
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Speedy, what have you been replacing them with? Are you making hard plastic bushings?
#41
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Exactly !
W202 C43 = not so good track car.
I remember the first time I drove my friends E36 M3 w/ Turner Motorsports suspension. Back then I had my C36, and the difference was ridiculous. Not even in the same league .
Also,Porsche 993TT calipers won't work on you car unless you can CNC caliper brackets. As far as I know, no one makes them yet for 202's.
c43's are cruisers. Like OC says spend your money on something else for track days. You can buy a Mini Cooper S , BMW e36M3, Subaru Sti for short money these days.
#42
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I bought my C36 to use as a track car to replace the 500SEC I had been using for track events. All it took to convince me was borrowing someone elses C280 for a track day last September and I was hooked! The search was on for a C36.
...and some 202 content, heres the in-car vid of the C280 on the track in New Jersey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VW9P9xVSb0
...and some 202 content, heres the in-car vid of the C280 on the track in New Jersey:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VW9P9xVSb0
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
Love seeing these cars at the track
#43
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Exactly !
W202 C43 = not so good track car.
I remember the first time I drove my friends E36 M3 w/ Turner Motorsports suspension. Back then I had my C36, and the difference was ridiculous. Not even in the same league .
Also,Porsche 993TT calipers won't work on you car unless you can CNC caliper brackets. As far as I know, no one makes them yet for 202's.
c43's are cruisers. Like OC says spend your money on something else for track days. You can buy a Mini Cooper S , BMW e36M3, Subaru Sti for short money these days.
W202 C43 = not so good track car.
I remember the first time I drove my friends E36 M3 w/ Turner Motorsports suspension. Back then I had my C36, and the difference was ridiculous. Not even in the same league .
Also,Porsche 993TT calipers won't work on you car unless you can CNC caliper brackets. As far as I know, no one makes them yet for 202's.
c43's are cruisers. Like OC says spend your money on something else for track days. You can buy a Mini Cooper S , BMW e36M3, Subaru Sti for short money these days.
Thanks for the input man but I dont want to be another bimer guy at the track. Im sure a stock w202 wouldn't compare to an m3 but with some suspension work, it can be a good handling car.
Whats up with everyone just following what others do??
Going to a track these days is like going to a drag strip pretty much. All you see there is american muscle cars which you already know will be stupid fast. I wanna see something different
#44
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sounds like airplane
I think for track events the answer is to remove all the weight you can and learn to really drive...
You'll know what to do otherwise from the trial and error/experience you will gain
You'll know what to do otherwise from the trial and error/experience you will gain
#45
#46
Thanks for the input man but I dont want to be another bimer guy at the track. Im sure a stock w202 wouldn't compare to an m3 but with some suspension work, it can be a good handling car.
Whats up with everyone just following what others do??
Going to a track these days is like going to a drag strip pretty much. All you see there is american muscle cars which you already know will be stupid fast. I wanna see something different
Whats up with everyone just following what others do??
Going to a track these days is like going to a drag strip pretty much. All you see there is american muscle cars which you already know will be stupid fast. I wanna see something different
Any car can become a great track car with the right amount of cash thrown at it, but at some point you have to ask yourself if it's worth it, even if you have a fat wallet. To make a 202 as capable as a well built e36, you could almost buy a retired cup car that would kick *** over almost anyone at a regular track day, pertaining to the car to car comparison, not driver to driver. Which leads me into my final piece, being fast at the track has so much more to do with the drivers talent, or lack thereof than the equipment being used, especially outside of a competition type of event. Tiger Woods could kick most of our butts on a golf course with a tree branch, right?
Get some real seat time on the different tracks you plan on running without doing anything to your car first, do ride alongs in different cars with drivers that have a lot of experience and interview people at the track days about thier cars and what they have done. I did before I built my track car, and I am really glad and happy with my result. Good luck, and if you haven't committed to a good club for your track days, check out trackmasters-racing.com, it's an awesome group.
#47
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The reason that everyone uses the e36 platform at the track is because it's a proven chassis and there are different road racing classes all over the world for it, so there is a ton of parts that are available from real racing R&D that make a great car even better.
Any car can become a great track car with the right amount of cash thrown at it, but at some point you have to ask yourself if it's worth it, even if you have a fat wallet. To make a 202 as capable as a well built e36, you could almost buy a retired cup car that would kick *** over almost anyone at a regular track day, pertaining to the car to car comparison, not driver to driver.
Any car can become a great track car with the right amount of cash thrown at it, but at some point you have to ask yourself if it's worth it, even if you have a fat wallet. To make a 202 as capable as a well built e36, you could almost buy a retired cup car that would kick *** over almost anyone at a regular track day, pertaining to the car to car comparison, not driver to driver.
Again, though, that is the easier, more traveled road. Good luck with your build.
#48
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sounds like airplane
I think the key here is that you need to shift your thinking...
"going to the track" isn't about the car, it's about the driver- You get to be plenty unique (if you can drive) regardless of what car you have
why make it harder on yourself than you need to? just take the weight out of the car as much as you can now and go drive, see how you do, research and talk to people and if you like it as a sport then build towards racing in a class you can afford.
"going to the track" isn't about the car, it's about the driver- You get to be plenty unique (if you can drive) regardless of what car you have
why make it harder on yourself than you need to? just take the weight out of the car as much as you can now and go drive, see how you do, research and talk to people and if you like it as a sport then build towards racing in a class you can afford.
#49
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2004 E55 engine and tranny on ebay for $8500... 7800 miles on them.. nice http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Compl...Q5fAccessories
Last edited by tmaguire; 03-01-2010 at 01:36 PM.