started tear down for paint
#451
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Still confused. What I've done so far since the last post:
1. undid all engine to trans bolts, tried to separate engine and trans enough to attempt to pry at the converter, to push it further into the trans
2. unsuccessful (or so I thought) so removed the engine - which wasn't too bad actually, as all the fasteners were nicely cleaned and coated with anti-seize when I put the engine in, plus now I know where everything is to undo
3. inspected front pump area of trans and converter, nothing seemed out of the ordinary
4. re-installed converter, and mated up the engine and trans again
5. attempted to turn engine over with ratchet on crank pulley - no joy, stuck again! wouldn't even budge
6. said f*ck it and removed the engine again for further inspection
Steps 2 to 6 all occurred on Sunday afternoon! Very tiring.
Looking back, I think I had actually bolted everything together properly, with the exception of not lining up the flywheel and converter initially. The converter's mounting faces sit into slots on the lywheel. If they aren't lined up, the converter will interfere with the flywheel, the tolerances are that tight. However, prior to firing up the engine, I had rectified that - by unbolting the engine to trans bolts and rotating the two so that they were 'in synch'. But, perhaps the improper mating caused some damage to the flywheel - and the shutters for the crank sensor are on the flywheel too. That said, there is nothing really out of the ordinary on a visual inspection.
Then last night I also noticed that the cam sensors are different part numbers. Thinking that this may have been the issue, I was rejoicing - but it turns out that the later number is just an update number, and the two SHOULD be compatible. But maybe the car requires the ECU reset to clear all adaptive memory?!? No idea there. My mechanic buddy told me to try to disconnect the battery and connect up the negative and positive cables for five minutes or so to clear the adaptive memory.
I'm also pretty convinced I have the converter properly seated into the trans. All measurements and indications from other research (thanks to Money-One and nhmercracer for their input) seem to point in that direction.
So I am going to swap in the original C43 flywheel and the original cam sensor, then bolt it all back together. Fingers crossed that will work.
1. undid all engine to trans bolts, tried to separate engine and trans enough to attempt to pry at the converter, to push it further into the trans
2. unsuccessful (or so I thought) so removed the engine - which wasn't too bad actually, as all the fasteners were nicely cleaned and coated with anti-seize when I put the engine in, plus now I know where everything is to undo
3. inspected front pump area of trans and converter, nothing seemed out of the ordinary
4. re-installed converter, and mated up the engine and trans again
5. attempted to turn engine over with ratchet on crank pulley - no joy, stuck again! wouldn't even budge
6. said f*ck it and removed the engine again for further inspection
Steps 2 to 6 all occurred on Sunday afternoon! Very tiring.
Looking back, I think I had actually bolted everything together properly, with the exception of not lining up the flywheel and converter initially. The converter's mounting faces sit into slots on the lywheel. If they aren't lined up, the converter will interfere with the flywheel, the tolerances are that tight. However, prior to firing up the engine, I had rectified that - by unbolting the engine to trans bolts and rotating the two so that they were 'in synch'. But, perhaps the improper mating caused some damage to the flywheel - and the shutters for the crank sensor are on the flywheel too. That said, there is nothing really out of the ordinary on a visual inspection.
Then last night I also noticed that the cam sensors are different part numbers. Thinking that this may have been the issue, I was rejoicing - but it turns out that the later number is just an update number, and the two SHOULD be compatible. But maybe the car requires the ECU reset to clear all adaptive memory?!? No idea there. My mechanic buddy told me to try to disconnect the battery and connect up the negative and positive cables for five minutes or so to clear the adaptive memory.
I'm also pretty convinced I have the converter properly seated into the trans. All measurements and indications from other research (thanks to Money-One and nhmercracer for their input) seem to point in that direction.
So I am going to swap in the original C43 flywheel and the original cam sensor, then bolt it all back together. Fingers crossed that will work.
Last edited by Saaboteur; 09-27-2011 at 11:57 AM.
#454
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w202 c36, c240 v6 , c230 k
do i have you right that you removed the c43 engine and fitted the e55 one well then you will need to use a e55 gearbox as the gearing will be all wrong for the c43 box
#455
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That's right, the 4.3's been removed, and the 5.4 is going in. Many guys have done this swap before, so the gearbox itself should not be an issue.
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w202 c36, c240 v6 , c230 k
yes you can get it to work but for the best results the gearbox change also is the better option
here is a post of a guy in england that did what you did you may fine great tips i know you will
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/sh...&highlight=c55
here is a post of a guy in england that did what you did you may fine great tips i know you will
http://forums.mercedesclub.org.uk/sh...&highlight=c55
#458
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I've seen that thread and have gone through it before, and saw that he had sprung for a rebuilt gearbox. I wish I had the funds to do that. I'll remove my gearbox if necessary to mate it up to the engine, but it really shouldn't be necessary. The WIS has a set of instructions for removing the trans with the engine still in the car. But in my case, removing the trans will be a bigger pain as I don't have a hoist at home (and the car will need to be jacked up quite high to get the trans out) plus all of the exhaust fasteners are rusted or seized, so that will be a big issue.
I'm planning to try again with mating up the engine and trans this weekend, maybe before them - but this time paying much more attention to the synch'ing of the flywheel and converter. Previously, I hadn't done that.
I'm also going to swap in the 43's flywheel, just in case something happened to the 55's. They are the same part number, thank goodness.
I'm planning to try again with mating up the engine and trans this weekend, maybe before them - but this time paying much more attention to the synch'ing of the flywheel and converter. Previously, I hadn't done that.
I'm also going to swap in the 43's flywheel, just in case something happened to the 55's. They are the same part number, thank goodness.
#460
I have been thinking about this, and now think you might want to rethink the transmission. At first, I thought the original transmission might be the way to go. Now I think the 55's transmission might be the best solution. There are about two dozen different torque converter / flex-plate pairs for the 722.6. I would tend to believe the 43/55 flex-plate is the same, but perhaps there have been changes none of us are aware of.
The only issue you may have would be the brake-shift interlock which prevents the transmission from being shifted from park without depressing the brake pedal. For the my 2000, the function of the interlock was changed from mechanical via cable, to electrical via the brake light switch, and an electro-mechanical device in the shifter itself. The newer shifter will not retrofit easily, as the signaling from the shifter to the TCU is changed from discrete signals, to the CAN bus.
You can either remove the cable completely, or pull it back through the transmission tunnel. I like the total removal option, as there is no chance of it causing brake pedal interference at some later date.
Your TCU will run the newer transmission just fine. I would, at some time, consult the dealership, and see about the latest TCU firmware for the C43/202. I believe there were some changes made for the later MY 2000 units.
The only issue you may have would be the brake-shift interlock which prevents the transmission from being shifted from park without depressing the brake pedal. For the my 2000, the function of the interlock was changed from mechanical via cable, to electrical via the brake light switch, and an electro-mechanical device in the shifter itself. The newer shifter will not retrofit easily, as the signaling from the shifter to the TCU is changed from discrete signals, to the CAN bus.
You can either remove the cable completely, or pull it back through the transmission tunnel. I like the total removal option, as there is no chance of it causing brake pedal interference at some later date.
Your TCU will run the newer transmission just fine. I would, at some time, consult the dealership, and see about the latest TCU firmware for the C43/202. I believe there were some changes made for the later MY 2000 units.
#461
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Well, spent the weekend bolting everything back together, and she runs! That's the good news. The bad news is that she runs just barely.
The idle is VERY rough, and frequently dies. Also, I think I fried the power steering pump the last time around, as I had neglected to fill it with fluid. Fail. To top it off, on a trackday event on Saturday with my S2000, the clutch master decided to pack it in too, so now I've got two non-running cars! Double fail!
Hope to have the S2000 up and running again soon, just need the clutch master. But the C43 is puzzling me. I tried swapping in another crank position sensor, and also another MAF, but no luck. There are no codes on the OBD2 scanner, but something is up for sure - as I was trying to run it this morning, the right side primary cat got red hot! That's not good. My mechanic friend said that there is a misfire causing the ECU to dump in too much unburnt fuel to that side, so I need to be careful.
I think once I swap out the power steering pump, I'm going to throw in the towel and have the car towed to the indy shop where they can hook up the Star diagnostics. Sheesh, I wish everything was more straightforward!! And I need the car soon, as it's getting cooler now and winter is just around the corner...I don't want to run the S2000 in snow (and it would need winter tires anyway) nor do I want to pick up a winter beater either...fingers crossed everything will be resolved soon (and not too much expense either!!!)
![Frown](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)
Hope to have the S2000 up and running again soon, just need the clutch master. But the C43 is puzzling me. I tried swapping in another crank position sensor, and also another MAF, but no luck. There are no codes on the OBD2 scanner, but something is up for sure - as I was trying to run it this morning, the right side primary cat got red hot! That's not good. My mechanic friend said that there is a misfire causing the ECU to dump in too much unburnt fuel to that side, so I need to be careful.
I think once I swap out the power steering pump, I'm going to throw in the towel and have the car towed to the indy shop where they can hook up the Star diagnostics. Sheesh, I wish everything was more straightforward!! And I need the car soon, as it's getting cooler now and winter is just around the corner...I don't want to run the S2000 in snow (and it would need winter tires anyway) nor do I want to pick up a winter beater either...fingers crossed everything will be resolved soon (and not too much expense either!!!)
#463
Haven't got the wires to the coil packs (or injectors) mixed up on that side have you? It sounds like an old school firing order problem to me. Best of luck, I start my E55 into C43 swap this week.
#464
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Triple checked all wiring! No issues. May have to start investigating coils, but all were functional when removed from the car. I drove the car into the garage, and it was running fine then. Getting increasingly worried and depressed now!
#465
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12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG sold)
Come on Vince, keep up the spirit as you are so close to getting the thing running. I'm sure its a small bug somewhere. As you say, probably a good idea to get the car hooked onto a Star diagnosis. That will certainly point you in the right direction.
Sometimes things get frustrating. I know for certain having been down that road recently with my other MB. Whirring/grinding noise at low speed and distinctly louder turning right. Changed front wheel bearings, changed rotors and pads on the 4 wheels. Noise is still around. Probably not the tranny as when moving forward and putting it in neutral, the noise is still there and is speed related. Finally I have given up. Drove down to my trusty race technician (70 years old and still active in his workshop) who has serviced all my cars for ages. He also heard the noise but can't pin point the source for the moment. Even the local MB "stealer" didn't find anything. They just decided to change rear hypo oil (had been done a couple of months previously with all oil changes on the car). I am awaiting his call with the diagnosis and just hope it's not going to empty my bank account
Sometimes things get frustrating. I know for certain having been down that road recently with my other MB. Whirring/grinding noise at low speed and distinctly louder turning right. Changed front wheel bearings, changed rotors and pads on the 4 wheels. Noise is still around. Probably not the tranny as when moving forward and putting it in neutral, the noise is still there and is speed related. Finally I have given up. Drove down to my trusty race technician (70 years old and still active in his workshop) who has serviced all my cars for ages. He also heard the noise but can't pin point the source for the moment. Even the local MB "stealer" didn't find anything. They just decided to change rear hypo oil (had been done a couple of months previously with all oil changes on the car). I am awaiting his call with the diagnosis and just hope it's not going to empty my bank account
![EEK!](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif)
Last edited by DRBC43AMG; 10-04-2011 at 03:57 AM. Reason: Completed post
#467
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#468
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It took me two hours to get the power steering pump out last night. Yikes. Five minute job with the engine out of the car.
Plan is to get the new pump on, the rest of the bits and pieces bolted up, and then have the car towed to the indy Benz shop, hooked up to the Star and see what's what, let them figure it out. Very depressing!
Plan is to get the new pump on, the rest of the bits and pieces bolted up, and then have the car towed to the indy Benz shop, hooked up to the Star and see what's what, let them figure it out. Very depressing!
#469
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12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG sold)
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#470
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Power steering pump was back onto the car last night with much less fuss than removing it (surprisingly). Aided much by the fact that since the AC system has no refrigerant in it, I was able to disconnect the line, allowing much easier access to the bolts holding the pump.
Tow truck came this morning, and the car is at the indy shop now for their thoughts. Fingers crossed it won't be too expensive....
Tow truck came this morning, and the car is at the indy shop now for their thoughts. Fingers crossed it won't be too expensive....
#471
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00 C200 & 00 C55 & 06 SLK55
TB connector
Marcus - my 55 motor is out of an '02 E55, last year of the NA 55s, so I'm guessing it has all the updated small bits and pieces. I'm speculating that the crank pulley bolt on it is the newer style (it looks like the new one I bought to go along with the new crank pulley, not like the one on the 43), plus of course the different engine management bits. I did notice too that the small, aluminum bolts that hold the crankcase breather covers in place are torx on the 55, but simple allen heads on the 43. The torx were easier to strip (ask me how I know!) and now I'll have mismatching bolts on the two covers. Boo.
It seems like the air pump has the same style connector, but I threw away the 55's engine harness long ago as it was partially burnt.
The injectors are green on the 43, and pale yellow on the 55. I have no idea on their different flow rates. I will try to grab part numbers off them tonight. I was told by Speedybenz that he kept the 55's injectors, so that's my plan too.
This is the 55's throttle body electrical connector:
![](http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy169/vincetong/55%20engine%20swap/IMG_0111.jpg)
This is the 43's throttle body electrical connector:
![](http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy169/vincetong/55%20engine%20swap/IMG_0112.jpg)
Here is the detail on the 55's throttle body dimensions - 74mm:
![](http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy169/vincetong/55%20engine%20swap/IMG_0114.jpg)
And the 43 measures the same - 74mm:
![](http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy169/vincetong/55%20engine%20swap/IMG_0115.jpg)
Picked up the new starter this morning from my engine builder, should be grabbing the AC and power steering seals this afternoon from the independent Benz guys. Of course, being stupid, I didn't think far ahead enough to order everything together, and so I will have to wait for all the new injector o-rings to come in early next week. But I figured since the engine won't go back into the car this weekend, that's fine.
Painted up the crankcase breather valve cover last night, and now I'm completely out of wrinkle black paint, but that's cool, I had just enough!
Aiming to tear the 43 intake manifold apart tonight to get at the pieces I need to refit back onto the 55, and hopefully also start fitting new parts back onto the 55 too. Should be fun!
It seems like the air pump has the same style connector, but I threw away the 55's engine harness long ago as it was partially burnt.
The injectors are green on the 43, and pale yellow on the 55. I have no idea on their different flow rates. I will try to grab part numbers off them tonight. I was told by Speedybenz that he kept the 55's injectors, so that's my plan too.
This is the 55's throttle body electrical connector:
![](http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy169/vincetong/55%20engine%20swap/IMG_0111.jpg)
This is the 43's throttle body electrical connector:
![](http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy169/vincetong/55%20engine%20swap/IMG_0112.jpg)
Here is the detail on the 55's throttle body dimensions - 74mm:
![](http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy169/vincetong/55%20engine%20swap/IMG_0114.jpg)
And the 43 measures the same - 74mm:
![](http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy169/vincetong/55%20engine%20swap/IMG_0115.jpg)
Picked up the new starter this morning from my engine builder, should be grabbing the AC and power steering seals this afternoon from the independent Benz guys. Of course, being stupid, I didn't think far ahead enough to order everything together, and so I will have to wait for all the new injector o-rings to come in early next week. But I figured since the engine won't go back into the car this weekend, that's fine.
Painted up the crankcase breather valve cover last night, and now I'm completely out of wrinkle black paint, but that's cool, I had just enough!
Aiming to tear the 43 intake manifold apart tonight to get at the pieces I need to refit back onto the 55, and hopefully also start fitting new parts back onto the 55 too. Should be fun!
Hi Saaboteur,
Thankss for that pics., thats very important issue to me,, in my C43 i got a round TB connector, and im soo interesting to put a new style square connector TB,
if i want to do that, can you tell me pls. which wire #s i should to switch, i brought that TB connector from 2002 CLK55....
ZAYED,,
#472
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12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG sold)
At first glance, both plugs have 6 pins. Have you checked the colors of the wiring? Same in both? If so splice the new plug to the old loom using the same colored wires. Assuming German engineering logic, the wires should be the same and do the same thing. Just my 2cents worth.
#473
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Sorry Zayed, I have no idea on that. I just swapped the original C43 throttle body back onto the 55 engine's intake manifold. Seemed a lot easier than trying to muck around with wiring. At any rate, the wiring loom that came with my 55 engine was fire damaged, so I couldn't do any further wire swapping.
#474
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Boo. Just spoke with the shop, and they have looked at the car but no firm answers yet. Still getting the same issues I was having - starts, no real idle quality, dies. The tech tried resetting the ECU with the Star, but no luck there either. He's apparently not had a lot of time to look at the car, so it'll be likely next week before I hear from them again. Unfortunately for that, it's a long weekend this weekend (Canadian Thanksgiving) so more waiting. Ah well. He had mentioned he thought it might be fuel related - maybe we should try the original injectors?!? That said, I wouldn't have thought it would make such a huge difference, but that's almost the only thing left to try...
#475
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Boo. Just spoke with the shop, and they have looked at the car but no firm answers yet. Still getting the same issues I was having - starts, no real idle quality, dies. The tech tried resetting the ECU with the Star, but no luck there either. He's apparently not had a lot of time to look at the car, so it'll be likely next week before I hear from them again. Unfortunately for that, it's a long weekend this weekend (Canadian Thanksgiving) so more waiting. Ah well. He had mentioned he thought it might be fuel related - maybe we should try the original injectors?!? That said, I wouldn't have thought it would make such a huge difference, but that's almost the only thing left to try...
![Frown](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/frown.gif)