started tear down for paint
11-16-2010, 03:44 PM
#101
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1999 c43 AMG
Car is looking good man! I had the same exact issue with alignment on my c43. I am running Bilstein Sport shocks with H&R springs. My current pad set-up is #1 up front and #3 in the back. I also installed the K-Mac camber kit in the front. My first alignment he could not get the front to Mercedes specifications( I had a #2 pad in the back at the time). Second alignment I changed the back pad to a #3 to get a more of a raked look, then he was able to get the front within Mercedes specification. What pads are you running?
11-16-2010, 04:10 PM
#102
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22 X3, 21 330e, 97 M3, 97 C36 (sold), but on the hunt for a clean, low-mile C43!
So how does she ride/handle? Are you able to compare the Vogtlands to H&R springs? And where did you get them anyway, along w/ your Billy shocks?
11-16-2010, 04:52 PM
#103
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Keeping in mind I am on a square set of 225 winter tires at the moment, the car handles fine. I haven't pushed it or anything, but I hardly do with this car. It's not the last word in steering feel or sharpness, but it's still comfy with a decent ride. You still feel freeway expansion joints or bumps in the road, of course, but it's not as harsh as before. I'm sure fresh shocks and bushings help with that immensely. Also, gone is the annoying low speed clicking from the worn out front lower control arm bushings.
Never driven H&Rs, so can't compare.
Vogtlands were purchased online - I got them last year from www.vogtlandsuspension.com , as opposed to www.vogtland-na.com
Bilsteins I got from Essex Distributors - www.essexdistributors.com - I went with them because they are a Canadian outfit. I'm sure you can find a US distributor with decent pricing. Tirerack?
I probably should have just bought the spring and shock combo from Vogtland, but it didn't specify if they were Bilstein sports or HDs.
Oh yeah, running #4s all around right now, but will go to #5s up front soon, per the tech's recommendation.
Never driven H&Rs, so can't compare.
Vogtlands were purchased online - I got them last year from www.vogtlandsuspension.com , as opposed to www.vogtland-na.com
Bilsteins I got from Essex Distributors - www.essexdistributors.com - I went with them because they are a Canadian outfit. I'm sure you can find a US distributor with decent pricing. Tirerack?
I probably should have just bought the spring and shock combo from Vogtland, but it didn't specify if they were Bilstein sports or HDs.
Oh yeah, running #4s all around right now, but will go to #5s up front soon, per the tech's recommendation.
11-17-2010, 09:26 AM
#104
MBWorld Fanatic!
I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO jealous..... I can't wait to install my suspension. Alas my money and time are being tied up for the holidays and my suspension is just sitting in my room for me to drool over everyday. Still debating on which size spring pads to run but it appears I may be going with what you got Saab as we almost have the same suspension set up. Please post pics after you get the #5 pads in.
11-18-2010, 11:34 AM
#105
Hey Mr. Saaboteur.
How many hours did it take you to install those camber arms?
If a skilled mechanic installs them he can do it faster?
It must be much more iizier to install each control arm when the shox and spring are being removed?
It must be very tight if shock and spring is still in place when installing each camber arms?
These camber arms after they have been installed, did you just tighten each bolts/nuts and left the car at the aligniment shop to do all the correct meassurement to set your car into perfect numbers?
With a perfect alignment your tires will not wear on the inside tire edge anymore?
Instead tires will wear evenly across the entire tire tread?
I suppose factory settings are set to make the tires wear on inner tire edge because of poor camber settings?
How many hours did it take you to install those camber arms?
If a skilled mechanic installs them he can do it faster?
It must be much more iizier to install each control arm when the shox and spring are being removed?
It must be very tight if shock and spring is still in place when installing each camber arms?
These camber arms after they have been installed, did you just tighten each bolts/nuts and left the car at the aligniment shop to do all the correct meassurement to set your car into perfect numbers?
With a perfect alignment your tires will not wear on the inside tire edge anymore?
Instead tires will wear evenly across the entire tire tread?
I suppose factory settings are set to make the tires wear on inner tire edge because of poor camber settings?
11-18-2010, 11:54 AM
#106
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Hey Mr. Saaboteur.
How many hours did it take you to install those camber arms?
If a skilled mechanic installs them he can do it faster?
It must be much more iizier to install each control arm when the shox and spring are being removed?
It must be very tight if shock and spring is still in place when installing each camber arms?
These camber arms after they have been installed, did you just tighten each bolts/nuts and left the car at the aligniment shop to do all the correct meassurement to set your car into perfect numbers?
With a perfect alignment your tires will not wear on the inside tire edge anymore?
Instead tires will wear evenly across the entire tire tread?
I suppose factory settings are set to make the tires wear on inner tire edge because of poor camber settings?
How many hours did it take you to install those camber arms?
If a skilled mechanic installs them he can do it faster?
It must be much more iizier to install each control arm when the shox and spring are being removed?
It must be very tight if shock and spring is still in place when installing each camber arms?
These camber arms after they have been installed, did you just tighten each bolts/nuts and left the car at the aligniment shop to do all the correct meassurement to set your car into perfect numbers?
With a perfect alignment your tires will not wear on the inside tire edge anymore?
Instead tires will wear evenly across the entire tire tread?
I suppose factory settings are set to make the tires wear on inner tire edge because of poor camber settings?
The camber arms were pretty easy. Especially easy with the spring and shock out of the way.
I spent a total of maybe 15 hours on the whole job, spread out over three days - springs, shocks, camber arms, plus all of the rear suspension arms, front ball joints, removing the front lower control arms, etc. The hardest part was undoing some of the rusted out fasteners. But that's me on the garage floor, taking breaks when I wanted, and also cleaning all of the bolts I removed.
I'd say the camber arms themselves would be a couple hours. The most difficult part would be undoing the inner bolts with the spring and shock still in place. But even then, it's just a single bolt on the inside, and you need to do a bit of contortion, but not too badly. You can still reach in there with hand tools. And actually, I had already installed the spring on the left rear before I realized I forgot to tighten the inner bolt. It wasn't too bad.
The outer bolt may require the four square bits, ie. 12mm 12 point male bit. From Speedybenz's instructions, some cars may just have a normal bolt on the outside. So check your car and be sure you have the right tools before you start. I fortunately know where to look / who to ask to get me parts and tools I need, so I wasn't left out for too long.
And as for tightening everything - I used the WIS for the torque specs, but for some bolts (including the inner camber arm bolt) I didn't have enough clearance to get my torque wrench in there, so I just tightened them down to what was probably over the spec. You know, you get a feel for these things after working on cars - 'yes, that feels like at least 30 ft lbs', that type of thing.
I asked the tech to give me a stock alignment, and he said that he can do that once I get the front ride height sorted out. With the rear camber arms, he was able to sort out the rear easily. He said the tires would wear nice and evenly with his alignment specs, so I'm not worried about that. This car I need to be easy on tires and not give any worries. The stock rear camber arm is not adjustable, it's just a solid piece, not even any possibility for eccentric bolts, so if you lower, you will need some way to adjust rear camber, whether it's with an adjustable camber arm like Speedybenz, or with the KMac rear camber kit. I don't know exactly how the KMac rear kit works, but I think it is like their front kit - poly bushings that replace the stock bushings with eccentric bolts to adjust camber.
Last edited by Saaboteur; 11-18-2010 at 12:00 PM.
11-18-2010, 12:04 PM
#107
gracias amigo! 
alignment shop has all the necessary info to set your car up after factory default?
And
After your new adjustable camber arms were installed, they could still make the best settings for your car, there was nothing to fiddle with adjustment nuts on your camber arms for the tech guy, he only used his machines to set all the necessary specs?
Thanx
alignment shop has all the necessary info to set your car up after factory default?
And
After your new adjustable camber arms were installed, they could still make the best settings for your car, there was nothing to fiddle with adjustment nuts on your camber arms for the tech guy, he only used his machines to set all the necessary specs?
Thanx
11-18-2010, 12:13 PM
#108
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Thread Starter
gracias amigo!
alignment shop has all the necessary info to set your car up after factory default?
And
After your new adjustable camber arms were installed, they could still make the best settings for your car, there was nothing to fiddle with adjustment nuts on your camber arms for the tech guy, he only used his machines to set all the necessary specs?
Thanx
alignment shop has all the necessary info to set your car up after factory default?
And
After your new adjustable camber arms were installed, they could still make the best settings for your car, there was nothing to fiddle with adjustment nuts on your camber arms for the tech guy, he only used his machines to set all the necessary specs?
Thanx
The shop I used is staffed with basically all ex-Mercedes dealer staff, they know what they are doing. They have all the info for the proper alignment specs. They would have to adjust everything. So that would be both the KMac adjustable bolts on the bushings on the front lower control arm for camber and caster, the tie rods up front for toe, then the Speedybenz camber arms at the rear and the rear toe arm too. The rear toe arm has a factory eccentric bolt.
The Speedybenz camber arms (or MB Arts or whoever else makes one) has two heim jointed tie rod ends, with a threaded rod in between them. One tie rod end is left hand thread, the other is right hand thread. Adjustment is done by moving the threaded rod back and forth. They would have played around with the arms to do that.
11-18-2010, 12:18 PM
#109
No, that's not all correct. I just tightened everything up (although apparently my left front control arm bolts were a bit loose) and didn't bother with the settings. I don't have the measuring tools for that.
The shop I used is staffed with basically all ex-Mercedes dealer staff, they know what they are doing. They have all the info for the proper alignment specs. They would have to adjust everything. So that would be both the KMac adjustable bolts on the bushings on the front lower control arm for camber and caster, the tie rods up front for toe, then the Speedybenz camber arms at the rear and the rear toe arm too. The rear toe arm has a factory eccentric bolt.
The Speedybenz camber arms (or MB Arts or whoever else makes one) has two heim jointed tie rod ends, with a threaded rod in between them. One tie rod end is left hand thread, the other is right hand thread. Adjustment is done by moving the threaded rod back and forth. They would have played around with the arms to do that.
The shop I used is staffed with basically all ex-Mercedes dealer staff, they know what they are doing. They have all the info for the proper alignment specs. They would have to adjust everything. So that would be both the KMac adjustable bolts on the bushings on the front lower control arm for camber and caster, the tie rods up front for toe, then the Speedybenz camber arms at the rear and the rear toe arm too. The rear toe arm has a factory eccentric bolt.
The Speedybenz camber arms (or MB Arts or whoever else makes one) has two heim jointed tie rod ends, with a threaded rod in between them. One tie rod end is left hand thread, the other is right hand thread. Adjustment is done by moving the threaded rod back and forth. They would have played around with the arms to do that.
ok thanks for explaining.
I guess it takes more time and vork to adjust the correct settings when using adjustable camber arms on the rear achel?
11-18-2010, 12:19 PM
#110
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11-18-2010, 04:03 PM
#113
11-21-2010, 02:40 PM
#114
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Thread Starter
Put the #5 pads in this morning....and not much difference, actually! Hardly noticeable. The right is still slightly higher than the left though. Whatever, it's difficult to see with the naked eye.
Driving impressions after a week - can't complain at all. The car is still comfy and smooth, there's still sufficient clearance, and best of all the wonky look with the huge rear gap is gone. Fresh front alignment tomorrow morning.
As you can see, we've since had snow from when I did most of the work last week. Bleahs. Can't wait for spring....
Driving impressions after a week - can't complain at all. The car is still comfy and smooth, there's still sufficient clearance, and best of all the wonky look with the huge rear gap is gone. Fresh front alignment tomorrow morning.
As you can see, we've since had snow from when I did most of the work last week. Bleahs. Can't wait for spring....
11-21-2010, 02:52 PM
#115
yo buddy, car looks betta now!
yeah, I can see it's a tad hijer on right side!
did you measure your wheelarches with a measurestick?
my car is also just a tad hijer on 1 or 2 raches last time I measured it.
Does it scrape being dat low?
tooooooooooooooo bad you're driving that black devul in winter freshly painted an all!
keep it as a summa caaa!
rust n gunk on a freshly painted car sux!
However good luck with it!
yeah, I can see it's a tad hijer on right side!
did you measure your wheelarches with a measurestick?
my car is also just a tad hijer on 1 or 2 raches last time I measured it.
Does it scrape being dat low?
tooooooooooooooo bad you're driving that black devul in winter freshly painted an all!
keep it as a summa caaa!
rust n gunk on a freshly painted car sux!
However good luck with it!
11-21-2010, 06:33 PM
#117
yo buddy, wanna share some experiance about tirewear?
# do you get any uneven tirewear on your front/rear tires?
# do you have any rear adjustable camber arms on your car?
# did you cut your springs or are you using Vogtland/H&R's?
# what type of shox?
Bilstein SPORT?
Koni yello?
# thickness of your front/rear springpads?
# now that your car is very low!
how do you handle speedbumps?
how do you handle speedbumps under heavy load: 5 peepol and full trunk?
do you get any rubbing and metal sheet scraping at all?
# low front of your car and front spoiler scrapings?
the ends underneath the bulging front spoiler gets scrapped very easily!
I have seen those scrapes on many C43's!
maybe those scrapes occurs by sand particles in the air sandblasting/rubbing our
spoilers when driving the car?
thanx for your help buddy.
Last edited by KJI3jflarryfe93; 11-21-2010 at 06:37 PM.
11-22-2010, 01:24 AM
#118
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Thread Starter
Wow, that's pretty low! 
I can't go that low around here. Roads are crap, plus I daily drive my car in the winter months.
I can't go that low around here. Roads are crap, plus I daily drive my car in the winter months.
11-22-2010, 08:40 AM
#119
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12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG sold)
Too low and too slammed...! Looks like an elephant sat on the front or the mechanic forget to put back the springs. Otherwise nice piece of machine
Last edited by DRBC43AMG; 11-23-2010 at 09:48 AM.
11-22-2010, 09:29 AM
#120
MBWorld Fanatic!
Put the #5 pads in this morning....and not much difference, actually! Hardly noticeable. The right is still slightly higher than the left though. Whatever, it's difficult to see with the naked eye.
Driving impressions after a week - can't complain at all. The car is still comfy and smooth, there's still sufficient clearance, and best of all the wonky look with the huge rear gap is gone. Fresh front alignment tomorrow morning.
As you can see, we've since had snow from when I did most of the work last week. Bleahs. Can't wait for spring....
Driving impressions after a week - can't complain at all. The car is still comfy and smooth, there's still sufficient clearance, and best of all the wonky look with the huge rear gap is gone. Fresh front alignment tomorrow morning.
As you can see, we've since had snow from when I did most of the work last week. Bleahs. Can't wait for spring....
11-22-2010, 09:39 AM
#121
stealership must have the answer wy 1 side is higher?
11-22-2010, 05:29 PM
#122
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Here are my final alignment specs.
I asked about the slightly different wheel gaps on the front. The tech said he'd seen plenty of that with Mercedes. I suppose it could even be from variation in the fender installation - there is always a bit of leeway on how those are installed. At any rate, not too worried about it! Just need to enjoy the car now!
I asked about the slightly different wheel gaps on the front. The tech said he'd seen plenty of that with Mercedes. I suppose it could even be from variation in the fender installation - there is always a bit of leeway on how those are installed. At any rate, not too worried about it! Just need to enjoy the car now!
11-22-2010, 07:35 PM
#123
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C43 AMG & E55 AMG
danm like an exam at school lots of question :P will do my best..my 1st language is french so ill try to answer best I can! ( PS I come from montreal..worst street possible )
# do you get any uneven tirewear on your front/rear tires?
NO..one set last me two years. been slammed for four years now..
# do you have any rear adjustable camber arms on your
car?
Bone stock.
# did you cut your springs or are you using Vogtland/H&R's?
CUT H&R.
# what type of shox?
Bilstein SPORT?
Koni yello?
Bone stock AMG shock.
# thickness of your front/rear springpads?
I run number 1 pads ( SHIMS ) all around.
# now that your car is very low!
how do you handle speedbumps? I can't passy any spd bumps =\
how do you handle speedbumps under heavy load: 5 peepol and full trunk?
I can't take more then 1 girl with me. too low! or it rubs
do you get any rubbing and metal sheet scraping at all?
it does rub in the back sometimes.gotta be careful and driver highway under 70/mph max... :P
# low front of your car and front spoiler scrapings?
the ends underneath the bulging front spoiler gets scrapped very easily!
I have seen those scrapes on many C43's!
maybe those scrapes occurs by sand particles in the air sandblasting/rubbing our
spoilers when driving the car?
MY front bumper get some scratching from my own entrance..gotta take it in a certain angle/spd...or else ciao!!
riding LOW is a lifestyle ;P
keep it clean bro, hope I helped ya!!
thanx for your help buddy.[/QUOTE]
# do you get any uneven tirewear on your front/rear tires?
NO..one set last me two years. been slammed for four years now..
# do you have any rear adjustable camber arms on your
car?
Bone stock.
# did you cut your springs or are you using Vogtland/H&R's?
CUT H&R.
# what type of shox?
Bilstein SPORT?
Koni yello?
Bone stock AMG shock.
# thickness of your front/rear springpads?
I run number 1 pads ( SHIMS ) all around.
# now that your car is very low!
how do you handle speedbumps? I can't passy any spd bumps =\
how do you handle speedbumps under heavy load: 5 peepol and full trunk?
I can't take more then 1 girl with me. too low! or it rubs
do you get any rubbing and metal sheet scraping at all?
it does rub in the back sometimes.gotta be careful and driver highway under 70/mph max... :P
# low front of your car and front spoiler scrapings?
the ends underneath the bulging front spoiler gets scrapped very easily!
I have seen those scrapes on many C43's!
maybe those scrapes occurs by sand particles in the air sandblasting/rubbing our
spoilers when driving the car?
MY front bumper get some scratching from my own entrance..gotta take it in a certain angle/spd...or else ciao!!
riding LOW is a lifestyle ;P
keep it clean bro, hope I helped ya!!
thanx for your help buddy.
[/QUOTE]
11-23-2010, 07:52 AM
#124
danm like an exam at school lots of question :P will do my best..my 1st language is french so ill try to answer best I can! ( PS I come from montreal..worst street possible )
# do you get any uneven tirewear on your front/rear tires?
NO..one set last me two years. been slammed for four years now..
# do you have any rear adjustable camber arms on your
car?
Bone stock.
# did you cut your springs or are you using Vogtland/H&R's?
CUT H&R.
# what type of shox?
Bilstein SPORT?
Koni yello?
Bone stock AMG shock.
# thickness of your front/rear springpads?
I run number 1 pads ( SHIMS ) all around.
# now that your car is very low!
how do you handle speedbumps? I can't passy any spd bumps =\
how do you handle speedbumps under heavy load: 5 peepol and full trunk?
I can't take more then 1 girl with me. too low! or it rubs
do you get any rubbing and metal sheet scraping at all?
it does rub in the back sometimes.gotta be careful and driver highway under 70/mph max... :P
# low front of your car and front spoiler scrapings?
the ends underneath the bulging front spoiler gets scrapped very easily!
I have seen those scrapes on many C43's!
maybe those scrapes occurs by sand particles in the air sandblasting/rubbing our
spoilers when driving the car?
MY front bumper get some scratching from my own entrance..gotta take it in a certain angle/spd...or else ciao!!
riding LOW is a lifestyle ;P
keep it clean bro, hope I helped ya!!
thanx for your help buddy.
# do you get any uneven tirewear on your front/rear tires?
NO..one set last me two years. been slammed for four years now..
# do you have any rear adjustable camber arms on your
car?
Bone stock.
# did you cut your springs or are you using Vogtland/H&R's?
CUT H&R.
# what type of shox?
Bilstein SPORT?
Koni yello?
Bone stock AMG shock.
# thickness of your front/rear springpads?
I run number 1 pads ( SHIMS ) all around.
# now that your car is very low!
how do you handle speedbumps? I can't passy any spd bumps =\
how do you handle speedbumps under heavy load: 5 peepol and full trunk?
I can't take more then 1 girl with me. too low! or it rubs
do you get any rubbing and metal sheet scraping at all?
it does rub in the back sometimes.gotta be careful and driver highway under 70/mph max... :P
# low front of your car and front spoiler scrapings?
the ends underneath the bulging front spoiler gets scrapped very easily!
I have seen those scrapes on many C43's!
maybe those scrapes occurs by sand particles in the air sandblasting/rubbing our
spoilers when driving the car?
MY front bumper get some scratching from my own entrance..gotta take it in a certain angle/spd...or else ciao!!
riding LOW is a lifestyle ;P
keep it clean bro, hope I helped ya!!
thanx for your help buddy.
Merci my friend.
You said you are using #1 pads all 4 corners they are 5 mm thick.
Did you have any problems with wheel alignment at the shop?
Is your car being higher at rear and seen on the pictures low up front?
A Mercedes has a sexy look when the front is lower up front and the rear is a little higher!
Using #1 5mm pads all 4 corners, does your car have an even-level stance or as described above, low front high rear?
I bought new #1 front and #2 rear pads for my car when I'm going to drop it.
I hope I get a decent alignment with this spring pad combo?
11-23-2010, 08:25 AM
#125
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12' W204 C63 AMG coupe "T-Rex", 12' W451 Smart Fortwo Pulse (99' W202 C43 AMG sold)
Hi Saaboteur,
Just checked out your alignment specs. Noticed you have a -0.5° camber up front. That is in my opinion excellent for normal road use and not too heavy on uneven tyre wear. However, saw you had -1.0° on the back. I thought that the idea of using camber arms was to get the camber close to 0° so as to get a nice flat and as wide as possible tyre pattern. Indeed the alignement for track would be totally different with much more negative camber front and back. What does your tech say?
I recall Speedybenz wrote something on his recommended alignment measurements but I can't get my finger on it. Perhaps he could chime in with the numbers...?
Just checked out your alignment specs. Noticed you have a -0.5° camber up front. That is in my opinion excellent for normal road use and not too heavy on uneven tyre wear. However, saw you had -1.0° on the back. I thought that the idea of using camber arms was to get the camber close to 0° so as to get a nice flat and as wide as possible tyre pattern. Indeed the alignement for track would be totally different with much more negative camber front and back. What does your tech say?
I recall Speedybenz wrote something on his recommended alignment measurements but I can't get my finger on it. Perhaps he could chime in with the numbers...?
Last edited by DRBC43AMG; 11-23-2010 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Completed post
