nkctb7

I understand that. I was merely elaborating and pointing out as to why the intake was designed a certain way. It was argued that although AMG's design may not be the best, there are reasons behind why the final product is the way that it is. I'm certain that they would've liked to design something specific and exclusive for the first V8 C Class but the fact is, it would've added to the already high price tag. It is far more cost effective when several models can share the same parts. A great example was the Plymouth Prowler. The body was exclusive but a majority of the parts were borrowed from various Chrysler F body vehicles. The bottom line is the budget allowance.

Cars are similar to dogs in many ways. Everyone is trying to produce the perfect breed but it is impossible to attain. There will always be flaws.

mickey13

woof!

benzslo

You have no idea, son. MB leads the world in car technology. Most everything on every car today was invented by Mercedes engineers, including the car itself. They hold over 100,000 current patents. Every safety related patent they hold they give away to any manufacturer for $1 for the sake of safety.
The part where you think BMW and Audi hold a candle to Mercedes in technology and design, how does one even debate this with someone so uninformed. There is no other auto maker that comes close to Mercedes in technology and they will all admit this. I've worked in multiple BMW dealers and an Audi dealer and your statements aren't even close.
Only excels in luxury? Again, clueless. They are superior cars, not superior luxury cars. Most parts of the world they are not like what they are in the USA, they are taxi cabs and common cars and everything in between.
Look at the absolute highest level of auto racing, formula 1.
But you keep thinking a paper air filter is some kind of heat exchanger, thats cute. Oh and how much hp did the m3 and the Audi competition make in 1998 when the c43 with its inferior airbox was making 302?
Drive any black series, drive a GTS, SLS, try to wrap your head around 1% of the tech that is in any of the cars, then get back to me.
Audi and engineering should never be used together and anybody who knows anything more than a magazine reader will tell you this. Not even debateable, very pathetic just like Audi and BMW "engineering"

nkctb7

There's a reason why VW own Porsche and Audi. Cayenne, Q7 and Toureg all share the same platform. Another great example of a manufacturer saving $$$. I wonder if they're built in Mexico like most VW's.

KJI3jflarryfe93

Volvo invented the safety belts even called chicken belts

ProjectC55

Yes you are cluelessand sound like an MB fanboy! When it comes to the driving and track experience the C43 engineering cannot compare to the engineering done on a 1999 BMW M3 and obviously you are referring to the underpowered US version (3.0,3,2l) of the M3 when talking about hp. The Euro E36 M3 has 321hp from a 3.2l 6 with variable timing vs your 302hp C43 sir. I have owned two E36 M3's highly modified. Suspension exhaust cams you name it! The C43 has nothing on the M3 except for in a straight line until you put in the 5.4L motor which I did way before YOU!. I have owned ALL three!! A stock M3 will murder a stock C43 in road racing and auto due to its engineering.
A W210 E50, E55 can't even compare to any M5 built from the E28 M5 to the E60 M5. MB will just drop a big motor in the car no suspension refinement nothing just drive straight and put the car in drive. The driving experience can not even compare SON!!

Amazing how Toyota wants to build the new Toyota Supra on the new BMW Z4 platform and use their TT STRAIGHT 6 the same one that's in the M3 and M4. BMW is the leader my friend and the model for ALL the major brands compact sportscars.

ProjectC55

Now I enjoy my C43 since I made it the way MB should have built it in the first place but no way is it as fun to drive on a road course like my M3s.

PJmak

People keep forgetting that a c43 is more of a muscle car and is not supposed to compete on a track with an m3. Mercedes redefined the game by being the first to shove a v8 into a small sedan(its never been done before a c43 and this is what makes this car special)

I honestly feel like the muscle car idea appeals more to people. Im tired of hearing m3, m4, m5.....its all old news

nkctb7

Here's a comparison article that contradicts your claim regarding the C43 straight line performance. It's noted in the 3rd paragraph.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...c43-amg-page-2

PJmak

0-60 on a c43 is 5.6 not 6.1 like that states.

Those road reviews are pointless. Those people couldn't care less. They get in the car, bury the foot and record the time.


With the adaptive trans on any Mercedes, you could be losing half a second if the transmission is not reset and ran aggressively prior to a 0-60 run.

nkctb7

I was aware that the 0-60 time was slow but that is what they attained on that particular day. My main focus was the straight away speed. There are far too many factors involved for anyone to comment. Unless it's the same driver, outside temp. and same road, it's difficult put much faith into such claims.

nkctb7

One thing that should be noted is that, at that time, AMG was a separate tuner. BMW's M Performace division has always been a part of BMW. ProjectC55 is bang on in regards to the racing history of BMW being superior when compared to Mercedes. In the late '80's, Mercedes turned to yet another outside company to attain more performance from their 2.3 & 2.5 motors. That British engineering company developed the motors for the 16V Cosworth.

PJmak

AMG is a part of mercedes nowadays and has been for a long time. Yea they used to be separate but they have developed and come a long way under the wings of mercedes.

If im not mistaken, mercedes makes the smallest most powerful engine out there at the moment. The 2.0 375hp four banger in the a45 amg

ProjectC55

MtLoSince the C43 is supposed to be a muscle car why has the car media compared it to the E36 M3 and the Audi S4 performance wise all those years? Makes no sense!! BMW has made AMG MB step up their game because their M cars were thrashing AMG'S sale wise and performance wise. Engineering my friend not compromise!! The M3 has always and will always set the standard. MB kills everyone with their S Class and that's it!! And I am a die hard MB guy!!

Concerning MBS 2.0 turbo 45's let it prove itself first. After all it is running 26psi which is a ton of boost hence why it also puts out 375hp. Duhh. That can be done to an Evo.That tells me nothing !! I'd rather a Alfa Romeo Gulia personally! The 4 cyl turbo.

PS what game did MB redefine US Detroit car makers have been dropping V8s in compact cars since the 60s young man!!

ProjectC55

Where did I contradict myself

PJmak

AMG is not responsible for what the media does

Ill agree with you, the M3 is a better track car but it doesn't outshine the w202 c class in any other way. They are pretty close in all other areas.

Also mercedes redefined the sedan game. The c43 is the granddaddy to all compact v8 packed sedans. this is where your c63, isf, the new m3v8 got the formula

DRBC43AMG

Just for the record Cosworth is spelled with one 'S' and they also built F1 engines.
Some history and details: http://www.cosworth.com/

nkctb7

I'm aware about the spelling as it was an honest mistake about the typo! Thanks for pointing it out!

nkctb7

Im aware of that but at the time, they were not.

DRBC43AMG

I was asking myself what are the expected 0-60mph times of a C43 modified with a 55 engine.
Some good people in the UK who have this specific vehicle and who are top technicians, knowing the w202 by heart, came up with the figures of 4.9 and 5.2
The 4.9 was with 17" Monos, the slower speed was with 18". Both run with Quaife LSD's.
Interesting figures between the 17" and 18" as I feel mine runs slower with the larger wheels.

nkctb7

"The C43 has nothing on the M3 except for in a straight line until you put in the 5.4L motor".

I'm not here to argue and was only pointing it out. According to every article out there, the C43 with the 4.2L motor at the 100 mark in a straight line leaves an M3 in the dust. Again, you've driven both so you would know for certain.

ProjectC55

The car will be quicker with the 17s because now you have shortened the gear ratio allowing you to put more tq to the ground. less un sprung weight. The monoblocks while they look good weigh over 25lbs per rim. the 18s are even heavier and taller and will give you a longer gear ratio.

ProjectC55

Going by experience against the US M3 stock motor in a straight line the 4.3l M113 delivers more straight line power to a C43 versus and I stress stock US M3, but against the original M3 with the EURO 3.0 and 3.2l Dual Vanos motor the C43 never has a chance!! That euro M3 motor is closely related to the Dual vanos motor in the E46 M3. Look it up!!! The 5.4L motor is the only thing that truly truly transforms the c43 and dump the sleepy 4.3l M113 motor. thats why MB woke up and tried with aSC w203 V6 C32(fail) then woke up again and finally did it right with the W203C55. and further improved with the w204 C63. Which the M3 was still giving a run for the $$$$$$$ money.
if BMW were to put the 4.9L E39 M5 V8 400 hp motor in the E36 M3 like we do putting the m113 5.4L motor in thr C43 and some folks have done this with the M5 motor in a E36 M3, the C43 and even the w203 C55 would be left for dead! they have even put the 500hp V10 E60 M5 motor in the E30 M3 body. The first original M3.

The E36 3 series also has a bigger market where mods are concerned as well because they are more mod friendly.

PS I know some US made M3s that are modded running mid to low 12's 1/4 mile with the 3.2l motor. turbocharged even faster of course. Even turbocharged E36 328s.. C43s NOPE!!

ProjectC55

Dude the only way AMG could compete with the Straight 6's in the M's is if they built a V8 so Cmon!!! Finally MB is building TT v6s! BMW been there done that years ago with the 135i, M135i, 335i,535i inline 6 TT

Im a German and American car guy not a fanboy of any particular marque.

I've driven on a road course all sorts of cars you name it from the GTR Black series,Porsche 911 Turbo S, New Corvette Sting Ray Ferrari's,Lambos,Jaguar,Austin Martin, AMG E63S,BMW M5 you name it I drove them at NJMP, Pocono Raceway and some on the street! I'm not into magazine racing.
The E63S nice power but its a straight line car. Will drive a C63S soon.

AMG MB still chases the BMW M3 as the bench mark Inline 6, V8, whatever.

Start talking to me about the truer than MB Sports super cars and cheaper super cars the GTR and the Porsche 911Turbo S and then we can have a conversation. AMG won't be anywhere in the conversation. You bring up a GTS I will show you a GTR or a Porsche that will murder it.

nkctb7

That is some great info.! Low 12's are some pretty impressive times and a V10 E30 would be one special vehicle. I'm thinking of acquiring an E90 M3 6 spd. The M3 4.0 V8 has a nice purr to it.