noah phatt

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2021...F0CC1047EFound this info

AhEmGee

this source says differently. Personally I agree with the above in that it's more likely to be an M276 inline 6 with updated hybrid tech. Otherwise there's less to differentiate the 4 CF cylinder Cla45amg from the C43 AMG .

SilverBullet18

It may seem that the next C43 will be powered by a Turbo 4

And the “replacement” for our C43’s will be the yet to be unveiled C53 with Mild Hybrid setup

With the Full C63 with mild Hybrid/ EQ boost

This makes more sense from a marketing and price point, especially since they want to broaden the AMG appeal.


Then again I could be wrong.

jonathan358

So you are saying the C43 will be discontinued and the C53 will have the AMG I4 with hybrid tech? Where will the new Inline 6 be used in? The regular Mercedes models?

zibby43

I would like to see the new CLA45 4-cylinder in the next generation C43.

Tuxdude

The inline 4 engine based cars will have the 45 designation and the electric supercharger based inline 6 will have the 53 designation.

It's a good question whether we will see both the C45 and the C53 variants? My guess would be that we will see just the C45 variant (replacing the current C43's place) but not the C53. Customers would have to move to the E class to get the E53 instead. C63 would most likely have either a hybrid or an electric supercharger variant of the V8 BiTutbo.

At this point it's still a guessing game based on the info we have from these news outlets

waisoserious

the new 2.0 redlines to 7200, bet it screams if you decat it.

jonathan358

That sounds like a good guess. FYI, the W206 C63 is confirmed to have a mild-hybrid V8 biturbo, probably the same system as the 53's but with a stronger motor.

All the 53's electric system is, is an Integrated Starter Generator, not a supercharger or anything based off forced-induction. It is nothing more than a VERY mild hybrid that boosts by <30kW at most.
edit: You are right, it does draw power from the engine to generate electricity to power an auxiliary compressor that feeds the turbos.

I just can't help but think that with a brand new inline-6 engine, Daimler is virtually killing all support for it as they are now shifting focus into electrification...

SilverBullet18

In essence:

C43 (This will NOW be the new Entry level w206 Performance C class model)

C53 (This will replace our car as the middle tier model, now with the I-6 )

C63 w/ EQ (Top of the line hand built AMG)

That’s my guess based upon the direction MB is taking with their nomenclature and product plans (based on other line ups )

Malar

All speculations and NOT Infos.
Nothing of this is confirmed.

And a 7200 rpm Redline is NOT screaming. Screaming is a S2k or R34 Redlining a 6-banger at 9k

Dalle1985

The drivetrain from the A45 is designed for transverse mounting and would need major rebuilding to fit the longitudinal engine layout of the C-class. It is more likely that the W206 will share drivetrains with the other longitudinally engined cars.

my bet would be for a C53 with the M256 and then a 4 cylinder in all models below, just like the new 3-series lineup. Since both Audi and BMW still have 6-cylinders in their sportsmodels, Mercedes will too.

Tuxdude

AMG boss Tobias Moers has already confirmed that the M139 engine can handle RWD duty as well if needed in the future and there are plans for doing so. See https://www.motor1.com/news/372200/a...ss-models/amp/

It does not make sense for AMG to limit this engine just to a very few set of cars.

CAMC43

I agree that Mercedes will follow the S4 and M340i model...one C Class entry level AMG model...a 6 cylinder C53. From a marketing perspective it's hard to have two entry level models.....first it dilutes brand and second the two models cannibalize each other. Right now there is a defined market buyer who wants more than a 4 cylinder but does not want the cutting edge 8 cylinder.

However, there are not two distinct market buyers....one that wants a higher performance 4 but not a 6 and one that wants a 6 but not a high performance 4.

Its a single buyer that wants more than a base 4 but not an 8.

Hence, if you have both a C43 and a C53 trying to find their micro market buyer....a good chance you will just be cannibalizing sales.

Meaning by having both a C43 and C53 total unit sales will not be much more than if you just had a C53.

Those slightly improved sales would like not cover the overhead cost increase ( marketing, inventory, etc) of supporting 1 model versus 2.

in short, I just don't see a business case.

waisoserious

ok bro...

Dalle1985

The prestige value is bigger than the development cost of the engine itself, and it wouldn’t be a new engine if they go for the C53 - it is already in quite a few cars and is readily available in the right trim. It will be easier to sell to the target audience (which is probably a good few years older than that of the A45) and the power delivery is also decidedly better suited to the cars demeanor.

The M139, does not exist in a longitudinal version, and even if it could do it, it would require more development than the 6-pot.

If it doesn’t come with the 6-pot, I will be going for something else anyway - most likely a CLS 53 (which it might very well be either way)... I’ve had 4-pots with 300+ horsepower and although they are fast, the experience just isn’t the same without the sound.

waisoserious

i think it is unlikely that they will continue to make the hybrid I6 when the petrol M139 2.0 Liter makes just as much power, is smaller and cleaner. The I6 might not make it into the next gen. They will prob hybridize the now 2.0 I4.

Tuxdude

The Mild Hybrid electric I6 M256 engine will most likely not be killed that soon since it was introduced just in 2017. It will continue to find its way into bigger cars like E, CLS, GLE, GT 4 door, etc. where it's already being used. With the C, I'm not sure if that will be the case. Overall fleet efficiency is the thing that all manufacturers are worried about. Like you describe, we might see some form of Hybrid Electric version of M139.

The M256 does share many of the modular bits and pieces with the inline-4 and V8 engines from Merc.

waisoserious

I think it could happen. The M276 is already being phased out now despite still being new. If you look at Benz' engine history, most engines do not make it past 1 generation.

The SOHC V6/V8s were all replaced with DOHCs
The 4.7V8 was replaced with the 4.0V8
The 5.5 was also replaced with the 4.0.
And the 3.0 V6 is now already being replaced with the 3.0 I-6.

Also the M139 is probably also cheaper to make than the M256. Its not unimaginable to use a I-4 in a large E or S. In most asian countries, a 250-270hp 4cylinder is the entry model S/7/A8.

jim04clk

Inline 6 will be even better. Bigger pistons and more torque in a inline as compared to v6.

Tuxdude

The M276 engine has been in existence since 2010. The initial DE35 variant was a naturally aspirated 3.5L engine used in a number of C, E, CLS, S, ML, etc. models. The Turbocharged 3.0L DE30 variant has been in use since 2014 and the 3.0L DE30AL since 2017. Even though the displacements are different between the two generations, they belong to the same family and share a lot of the design and parts.

The 4.7L V8 (M278) and 5.5L V8 (M157) have a lot in common and have lasted quite long - starting from cars sold back in 2011 (S63, CL63) to cars sold in 2018 (CLS63). Yes, it's one generation but it has been used in a wide variety of vehicles.

My point is that the I6 is brand new and it doesn't make sense to kill an engine that soon. We will see that (or its variant) engine being used for at least next 6 to 7 years, may be with some form of Electric compressor. The I-6 and the I-4 have lot of components that they can share and that reduces their R&D costs.

I attended the AMG Driving Academy event this week in Laguna Seca, and the instructors there spoke about the future of these mild-hybrid based Electric compressor assist engines. They said we are going to see more of these given how successful they have been in Formula 1 and other applications, and how it is beneficial to deliver performance vehicles with the increased fleet emission regulations.