Better to lease or buy?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Vancouver
C350 4Matic
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Northern NJ
2009 C63
You got it!! When so many manufactures are walking away from leasing that tells you THEY are looing the money. With an unstable market I would lease provied the resid is good and rates are reasonable. ( 62 % resid and 5.9% rate on a hot car is very reasonable for me) On a not so hot car NO.
Of course my numbers are based on Canada. Keep in mind when you look at low rates, it is also tipical of lower residuals. Meaning the payments will still be similar to a car with higher rates and higher residuals. So at the end of the day use them as a guide but your payment is most important to you!
Of course my numbers are based on Canada. Keep in mind when you look at low rates, it is also tipical of lower residuals. Meaning the payments will still be similar to a car with higher rates and higher residuals. So at the end of the day use them as a guide but your payment is most important to you!
Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 110
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From: Fort Lauderdale, FL
2007 Inifiniti G35
I have been going back and forth with dealers.. and the payments come out to about $1260 on a 39 month lease with zero cap cost reduction.
These rates are absolutely horrible and I don't know wtf is going on.
Atleast BMW is offering .9% financing on the M3's.
I prefer to beat the crap out of it on a lease.. You can still flash the ecu and the flash it back before you turn it in...
However, I won't be getting this car unless I find another leasing company
$1300/month is stupid...
These rates are absolutely horrible and I don't know wtf is going on.
Atleast BMW is offering .9% financing on the M3's.
I prefer to beat the crap out of it on a lease.. You can still flash the ecu and the flash it back before you turn it in...
However, I won't be getting this car unless I find another leasing company
$1300/month is stupid...
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 626
Likes: 19
From: Austin, TX
14 GL550; 14 E63s
Lease vs. buy
Here is the lease rate I was quoted today:
36mo/12k year
Price of vehicle after taxes/fees: 71252.87
MF: .00299/ 7.17%
Res: 34,247
Mo payment: 1299
Down payment: 1500
Good deal?
36mo/12k year
Price of vehicle after taxes/fees: 71252.87
MF: .00299/ 7.17%
Res: 34,247
Mo payment: 1299
Down payment: 1500
Good deal?
Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL
2007 Inifiniti G35
I don't think so.. Try leasecompare.com to see if you can get a better rate... how much off MSRP were you able to get.. you should get atleast $3500 off...
A good deal on this car would be $1000ish per month...
The interest rates (MF) are just too high right now and many leasers are purchasing now...
Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
From: Lake Norman, NC
C63, GL450, Panamera S, lots of little British leakers
I have been a lease customer for years... the tax advantages for business use outweigh the sometimes higher total cost...
But since BMW and MB lowered their residual values across the board I have been purchasing my cars and coming out ahead in the long run.
Before you lease a C63, stop focusing on the monthly payment and take a close look at the end of lease terms for turning back the car. You could find yourself on the hook for undoing mods, fixing small paint scrapes, or buying new tires for the next owner to burn through.
But since BMW and MB lowered their residual values across the board I have been purchasing my cars and coming out ahead in the long run.
Before you lease a C63, stop focusing on the monthly payment and take a close look at the end of lease terms for turning back the car. You could find yourself on the hook for undoing mods, fixing small paint scrapes, or buying new tires for the next owner to burn through.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
From: Pasadena, CA
C63 / ////AMG
I have been going back and forth with dealers.. and the payments come out to about $1260 on a 39 month lease with zero cap cost reduction.
These rates are absolutely horrible and I don't know wtf is going on.
Atleast BMW is offering .9% financing on the M3's.
I prefer to beat the crap out of it on a lease.. You can still flash the ecu and the flash it back before you turn it in...
However, I won't be getting this car unless I find another leasing company $1300/month is stupid...
These rates are absolutely horrible and I don't know wtf is going on.
Atleast BMW is offering .9% financing on the M3's.
I prefer to beat the crap out of it on a lease.. You can still flash the ecu and the flash it back before you turn it in...
However, I won't be getting this car unless I find another leasing company
$1300/month is stupid...Unfortunately, on these niche cars like the C63, things are going to be bad right now. The banks need to make money right now since they screwed up on giving home loans to people who weren't qualified in the 1st place....
The M3's (and the E63 AMG) aren't selling well at all: dealers have a surplus inventory and are paying interest on the loans they got to put these cars on the lot. They need to get rid of these rocks fast!! Thus the very low finance and base lease rates on the M3 (and E63 with a .00012 base rate!!!)
If I were you I'd go for an E63 for 24 months and hopefully when the lease is up, you can upgrade to the C63 for a better rate than the current market offers.
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 626
Likes: 19
From: Austin, TX
14 GL550; 14 E63s
I don't think so.. Try leasecompare.com to see if you can get a better rate... how much off MSRP were you able to get.. you should get atleast $3500 off...
A good deal on this car would be $1000ish per month...
The interest rates (MF) are just too high right now and many leasers are purchasing now...
A good deal on this car would be $1000ish per month...
The interest rates (MF) are just too high right now and many leasers are purchasing now...
Leasecompare isn't much better. With a credit score of 800, they are still asking for 5500 down to get a deal with a .00276 mf/6.6% and 28.5k residual on a car with a final price of 71k. This is most likely through USBank so i don't think they have incentives. So that 5500 is gone! Probably why the lower residual.
This was just a casual deal with a dealer. They only gave me 1500 off a car with 500 miles on it. I would certainly expect a bit more. I'm also looking at one that stickers out at 69,860 (has carbon fiber trim). I'm thinking I might try to get that one for 67k. They only have one C63 on the lot and aren't expecting another one until March. so not sure how much they will negotiate.
I can get 5.9 through my bank and I've seen cap one at 5.54 and penfed at 4.75 although I don't know much about penfed. I'll have 26k for a trade-in so I get tax savings as well (6.25% in TX). Obviously wouldn't use that money for a lease.
Dont' really care about mo payments. I just want the best deal for me. I do get out of cars fairly often so leasing is attractive, but at these rates, I'm not sure.
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Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL
2007 Inifiniti G35
ya well there is no real way to make the numbers favorable on a lease for c63.
There is a grey c63 on leasetrader for under 1000/month...
I gotta have the black/beige combo though!!!
There is a grey c63 on leasetrader for under 1000/month...
I gotta have the black/beige combo though!!!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,764
Likes: 9
From: Blasting off!
CLS63 Designo Edition, Hyundai Genesis 3.8 , Veloster Turbo, CLS500(Sold), E320 (SMOKED) R500 (Sold)
I know this debate goes back a nd forth, but general rule is based on time you want to keep the car. My personal experience:
1. I keep cars for about 5 years.
2. Leasing has always cost more than finance with me. Example, to lease a CLS like mine, really with less options than mine it would have been over $300/month more to lease than to buy.
So, financing always worked out better for me. It varies on the situation.
1. I keep cars for about 5 years.
2. Leasing has always cost more than finance with me. Example, to lease a CLS like mine, really with less options than mine it would have been over $300/month more to lease than to buy.
So, financing always worked out better for me. It varies on the situation.
Senior Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 298
Likes: 1
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
2002 CLK55 Cabriolet (DEAD: 1989 300E, 1984 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz Convertible)
Forgive me, I wandered over here from the CLK55/CLK63 forum via a linked posting over there.
I don't understand the whole "I change my cars every 2-3 years" concept. Do you all have ADD or something?
OK, OK - I get it if you own your own business, lease the cars as a tax write-off and thus have short-term closed-end leases that are up after that amount of time. Fair enough.
But if you don't run a business, why get rid of the car that soon?
Especially since we are talking about AMGs here ... not exactly the kind of car that made me suddenly think (after 2-3 years of owning my CLK55 - I've had mine for almost 4 now), "OK, I'm bored with this ridiculously great car already, time to sell it and buy something else"
As for these C63 lease rates ... hoo boy, I guess if you can afford to pay $1,300+ a month for a car payment you must not be putting much away in pre-tax dollars into your retirement funds!
I don't understand the whole "I change my cars every 2-3 years" concept. Do you all have ADD or something?
OK, OK - I get it if you own your own business, lease the cars as a tax write-off and thus have short-term closed-end leases that are up after that amount of time. Fair enough.
But if you don't run a business, why get rid of the car that soon?
Especially since we are talking about AMGs here ... not exactly the kind of car that made me suddenly think (after 2-3 years of owning my CLK55 - I've had mine for almost 4 now), "OK, I'm bored with this ridiculously great car already, time to sell it and buy something else"
As for these C63 lease rates ... hoo boy, I guess if you can afford to pay $1,300+ a month for a car payment you must not be putting much away in pre-tax dollars into your retirement funds!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,579
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From: Brooklyn
'08 BMW 650ci
these leases are HORRIBLE!
thats the reason why i didnt get the C63
i got a 92k '08 650....for 2 years, for less money
and maintenance is included
mb leases on the C63 are horrific!
thats the reason why i didnt get the C63
i got a 92k '08 650....for 2 years, for less money
and maintenance is included
mb leases on the C63 are horrific!
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 497
Likes: 1
SL
This is not a bad rule of thumb, but it does not hold true in all cases. Specifically for the 2009 C63 AMG, the lease rate (from MB) is grossly high. When you lease, you are paying interest on both the depreciation of the car as well as the residual. With MB lease rates at apx 9%, and finance rates at 4-5%, I believe you're better off purchasing the C63.
So whether you buy or lease, you pay for the depreciation. Leasing might make more sense when the lease rate is very close to the finance rate, and when there are other factors that make the leasing equation more favorable (such as higher residuals). Leasing also makes perfect sense if you can use it as a tax write-off for your business.
Leasing can make sense, it just depends on the situation.
So whether you buy or lease, you pay for the depreciation. Leasing might make more sense when the lease rate is very close to the finance rate, and when there are other factors that make the leasing equation more favorable (such as higher residuals). Leasing also makes perfect sense if you can use it as a tax write-off for your business.
Leasing can make sense, it just depends on the situation.
my rule of thumb is if you need to do so much calculations and consider so many different options... that means you can't afford it... you ll be better off going for C200
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 48
Likes: 1
From: So.cal
w203
we don't have c200's here.... maybe what you meant is a honda....
Hey there is nothing wrong with that...... i drive a honda civic!!!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,885
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From: S.D Cali
CLS63
So you pay for a car that was not your first choice for two years then buy the car you wanted two years ago that is now out dated Life is to short, drive whatever makes you happy and won't hurt your life style. I own my CLS63 but I just least the wife and kid 2009 C350's under the company name. So depends what you want to do with the car. Buy or Lease just hurry up and get that C63 and wait till you smash on the gas, you'll forget about the payment 
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 497
Likes: 1
SL
I really disagree with the statement. Why would you wait two years for a car you want to enjoy now, just to save a couple hundred bucks a month So you pay for a car that was not your first choice for two years then buy the car you wanted two years ago that is now out dated Life is to short, drive whatever makes you happy and won't hurt your life style. I own my CLS63 but I just least the wife and kid 2009 C350's under the company name. So depends what you want to do with the car. Buy or Lease just hurry up and get that C63 and wait till you smash on the gas, you'll forget about the payment
So you pay for a car that was not your first choice for two years then buy the car you wanted two years ago that is now out dated Life is to short, drive whatever makes you happy and won't hurt your life style. I own my CLS63 but I just least the wife and kid 2009 C350's under the company name. So depends what you want to do with the car. Buy or Lease just hurry up and get that C63 and wait till you smash on the gas, you'll forget about the payment 'Life is too short' could be an excuse for every reckless stupid decision one can ever make... e.g. many people earning min wage decided to own a home coz life is too short and what we see now is a financial crisis going on.... life is already short.. making reckless decisions will shorten it even more..
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,764
Likes: 9
From: Blasting off!
CLS63 Designo Edition, Hyundai Genesis 3.8 , Veloster Turbo, CLS500(Sold), E320 (SMOKED) R500 (Sold)
'Life is too short' could be an excuse for every reckless stupid decision one can ever make... e.g. many people earning min wage decided to own a home coz life is too short and what we see now is a financial crisis going on.... life is already short.. making reckless decisions will shorten it even more..
You sir, are making some very good sense. If people would stop buying and demand better, you get better. Hmmm..I think we are seeing that in some instances as of late, no?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,675
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From: NA
Yes
no one stays rich by giving their money away. if evaluating your options to make a wise financial decision is bad...well, I guess Im out.
Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: Fort Lauderdale, FL
2007 Inifiniti G35
I can afford it, but mentally it hurts going from a $550 payment up to around $1250 payment.
Priority right now is to get into a new house (hoping the real estate market bottoms in mid to late 2009) with a garage to keep my ride...
I think most of us here make pretty good decisions are aren't the same crowd that "phonetics" is speaking of..
Priority right now is to get into a new house (hoping the real estate market bottoms in mid to late 2009) with a garage to keep my ride...
I think most of us here make pretty good decisions are aren't the same crowd that "phonetics" is speaking of..
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
From: Pasadena, CA
C63 / ////AMG
I really disagree with the statement. Why would you wait two years for a car you want to enjoy now, just to save a couple hundred bucks a month So you pay for a car that was not your first choice for two years then buy the car you wanted two years ago that is now out dated Life is to short, drive whatever makes you happy and won't hurt your life style. I own my CLS63 but I just least the wife and kid 2009 C350's under the company name. So depends what you want to do with the car. Buy or Lease just hurry up and get that C63 and wait till you smash on the gas, you'll forget about the payment
So you pay for a car that was not your first choice for two years then buy the car you wanted two years ago that is now out dated Life is to short, drive whatever makes you happy and won't hurt your life style. I own my CLS63 but I just least the wife and kid 2009 C350's under the company name. So depends what you want to do with the car. Buy or Lease just hurry up and get that C63 and wait till you smash on the gas, you'll forget about the payment 1) He would be saving $700+ per month (not a couple hundred) on a E63 versus the C63
2) True, life is short, but that sort of thinking without looking at one's current budget and long term income earning ability is what has put this country in a depression....
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 497
Likes: 1
SL
I can afford it, but mentally it hurts going from a $550 payment up to around $1250 payment.
Priority right now is to get into a new house (hoping the real estate market bottoms in mid to late 2009) with a garage to keep my ride...
I think most of us here make pretty good decisions are aren't the same crowd that "phonetics" is speaking of..
Priority right now is to get into a new house (hoping the real estate market bottoms in mid to late 2009) with a garage to keep my ride...
I think most of us here make pretty good decisions are aren't the same crowd that "phonetics" is speaking of..
don't get me wrong.. i am not saying u guys are bad decision maker... i am sure most of us here are quite well off financially... i just don't understand why people keep saying 'life is too short' to justify doing something you might regret later ... i don't think that can ever be a reason at all... maybe it's just me... i am not an american that's why i like cash more than any depreciating assets..
Super Member
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 626
Likes: 19
From: Austin, TX
14 GL550; 14 E63s
Just got quoted a lease through US Bank:
MSRP: 67,360
Neg price: 64,360 (plus a few other throw-ins, so I'm happy with price)
39 mo lease 12K/year
MF: .00285
Res: $32,250
US bank is offering a "paper trade" tax credit so with my trade-in, I'm only paying 300 bucks in taxes (state of Texas). I'm not putting my trade-in in the deal. They would write me a check for my trade.
$1400 due at signing.
$1191/mo.
Same deal with purchasing:
$26k tradein
Financing $40,757 at 4.5% (through my bank)
759/mo.
I plan on keeping the car for at least 3 years. I have no tax advantages through my business. I can probably keep the mileage under 12k per year although it is my daily driver.
I like the sense of owning my car, but I just want to do what makes the most financial sense. I realize that's probably buying a honda civic, but that's beside the point.
MSRP: 67,360
Neg price: 64,360 (plus a few other throw-ins, so I'm happy with price)
39 mo lease 12K/year
MF: .00285
Res: $32,250
US bank is offering a "paper trade"
tax credit so with my trade-in, I'm only paying 300 bucks in taxes (state of Texas). I'm not putting my trade-in in the deal. They would write me a check for my trade. $1400 due at signing.
$1191/mo.
Same deal with purchasing:
$26k tradein
Financing $40,757 at 4.5% (through my bank)
759/mo.
I plan on keeping the car for at least 3 years. I have no tax advantages through my business. I can probably keep the mileage under 12k per year although it is my daily driver.
I like the sense of owning my car, but I just want to do what makes the most financial sense. I realize that's probably buying a honda civic, but that's beside the point.
Super Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
From: Pittsburgh, PA
2009 C63 AMG
Just got quoted a lease through US Bank:
MSRP: 67,360
Neg price: 64,360 (plus a few other throw-ins, so I'm happy with price)
39 mo lease 12K/year
MF: .00285
Res: $32,250
US bank is offering a "paper trade" tax credit so with my trade-in, I'm only paying 300 bucks in taxes (state of Texas). I'm not putting my trade-in in the deal. They would write me a check for my trade.
$1400 due at signing.
$1191/mo.
Same deal with purchasing:
$26k tradein
Financing $40,757 at 4.5% (through my bank)
759/mo.
I plan on keeping the car for at least 3 years. I have no tax advantages through my business. I can probably keep the mileage under 12k per year although it is my daily driver.
I like the sense of owning my car, but I just want to do what makes the most financial sense. I realize that's probably buying a honda civic, but that's beside the point.
MSRP: 67,360
Neg price: 64,360 (plus a few other throw-ins, so I'm happy with price)
39 mo lease 12K/year
MF: .00285
Res: $32,250
US bank is offering a "paper trade"
tax credit so with my trade-in, I'm only paying 300 bucks in taxes (state of Texas). I'm not putting my trade-in in the deal. They would write me a check for my trade. $1400 due at signing.
$1191/mo.
Same deal with purchasing:
$26k tradein
Financing $40,757 at 4.5% (through my bank)
759/mo.
I plan on keeping the car for at least 3 years. I have no tax advantages through my business. I can probably keep the mileage under 12k per year although it is my daily driver.
I like the sense of owning my car, but I just want to do what makes the most financial sense. I realize that's probably buying a honda civic, but that's beside the point.
Ah, here is something to work with.
Finance
-------
* 39 payments = -$29,633.57
* down payment = -$26,000
* Total paid = -$55,633.57
* Value of car is same as lease residual = $32,250
* Net value paid = -$55,633.57 + $32,250 = $23,383.57
Lease
-------
* 39 payments including $1,400 down = -$47,849
* $26,000 making 4.5% interest per year for 39 months ~ $29,700
* Net value paid = -$47,849 + $29,700 = $18,149
So in the event you'll have your car for 39 months, leasing is better than buying IMO based on the above net value paid calculations (which exclude taxes and includes some other assumptions).
However, consider what will happen after 39 months if you buy the car:
Finance
-------
* Net value paid = $23,383.57
* Balance on loan = -$15,316.80
* Net net value = $8,066.77
Lease
------
* Net value paid = $18,149
* Balance on car = -$32,250
* Net net value = -$14,101
So you're better of buying the car from the start if you plan to buy it all along (not a big surprise, as lease-to-buy is rarely favorable).
Conclusion: at a 39 month time horizon, leasing is better than buying in your situation just simply looking at the numbers, and no other personal financial circumstances.
Recommendation: seriously consider what you'll likely do on your 40th month. This will have the biggest financial impact on lease vs. buy.
