PC Valkyrie

Haven't seen this posted here before, but the German magazine "Sport Auto" peformed their "Supertest" on the C63 in their February 2009 issue. They are one of a few magazines in the world which independently test cars on the Nordschliefe circuit using the same driver all the time, making the comparison in laptimes more reasonable than using times from the factory.

The C63's laptime was 8:13 minutes, making it the king of the C-AMG cars (not surprisingly, as each successive generation of C-AMG cars has gotten faster and faster).

Now, I'm sure most of you will wonder how this compares to other cars out there, so I've listed some cars of interest from previous Sport Auto Supertests and their laptimes on the "Ring".

BMW M3 (E92): 8:05 (on R-compound tires)
Audi RS4 (B7): 8:09 (on R-compound tires)
BMW M5 (E60): 8:13
Lexus IS-F: 8:18
MB C55 AMG: 8:22
BMW M3 (E46): 8:22
BMW 335i (E92): 8:26
Audi S5: 8:26
BMW M5 (E39): 8:28
MB C32 AMG: 8:37
MB C43 AMG: 8:51

Hard to know whether the C63 compares favourably or not to the E92 M3 and RS4, as the M3 and RS4 were tested on R-compounds and the C63 was not. What can be said is that the C63 is about the same as the E60 M5 on this high speed track (where power and handling both matter), about 5 seconds faster than the IS-F, and about 9 seconds faster than the previous C55 and E46 M3 (all with street tires).

SebringSilver

Interesting info.

Thanks!

alumar

i would love to see what my car would do around the ring professionally driven. It would be almost worth shipping it over to see what a Kleemann S7 tuned /w brabus suspension and upgraded brakes would do.

BerBer63

Wow, a worth while thread. I forgot what these were like.

I previously thought the C63 got it in at 8:11 and I've always wondered if that was with PP or not.

clktoc63

+1.

I'd really like to know if the test car was PP. I want to know if a PP car can out-do the CTS-V on the ring. I had my car upgraded from partial to full PP and notice a tremendous difference.

PC Valkyrie

The C63 used by Sport Auto had the performance package (meaning the stiffer suspension and the mechanical LSD).

Below is a brief summary from someone who translated the "summary" of the Supertest (from German). Great motor and gearbox, but not totally impressed with the suspension/chassis tuning.

"they are HUGELY impressed by motor and gearbox. They say the motor is the hot point of the car, totally impressive, and that the gearbox allows to enjoy it to the max. This motor is in its top shape in the small C-Class.
So the motor-gearbox belongs to the most impressive offers in that market.

The high fuel consumption is the only minus.

The current trend at AMG to focus more on driving dynamics is to be saluted, but in the C-Class it's not fully convincing. The PP of this car features a suspension that is too hard for everyday use. It allows to use the potential of the car a bit more on perfect road, but significantly reduces the driving pleasure on normal conditions.

Without this suspension, the end result would've been hardly affected, but everyday comfort would've been greatly improved.

The use of sport-tyres would've had a higher influence in that respect, than this stiff suspension. (So, obviously no R-tyres)"

BerBer63

Sweet, thanks

C43AMG

Hmmm.......no comments about the brakes,I am surprised.

bigwheeler

Good info!!

LZH

Was this with Horst von Saurma behind the wheel ? If so, take those times with a grain of salt...Horst von Saurma tested the CLK BS there and turned an 8:05 lap time while the factory driver, Bernd Schneider, ran a 7:45. All this tells me is that Mr. Saurma should stick to his day job as editor-in-cheif of a magazine.

SeattleBum

Why would Sportauto even bother testing the M3 and RS4 on R-cmpds if their goal was to give more "accurate" times in which to compare all of these cars? Also, I believe the RS4 time is on a European version RS4 which, I believe, weighs a couple hundred pounds less than the version we get in the US.

Nontheless, great time for the C63!

Man, that S5 time is horrible. Good thing it's at least sexy.

yooker

The New Camaro SS does it in 8:19.

LZH

Who gives a ***** ? We're talking about AMG's, not Chevy's, dude...

PC Valkyrie

No, I think you should take the 7:45 minute time for the CLK63 BS with a grain of salt. MB has never formally published in their press materials or promotion of the CLK63 BS that it ran the ring in 7:45. The only "source" for that time is a quote from a Car & Driver article, where Mercedes revealed to C&D the following:

"More important, though, is the footwork, which Schneider is exploiting on the Ring's endless succession of blind corners, decreasing radii, and flat-out doglegs. Lord, this baby can dance. The lap times? Below eight minutes for sure, with Mercedes officials suggesting as quick as 7:45."

To my mind, that is pretty non-specific statement reported by C&D and Mercedes.

Even if Bernd Schneider can manage a sub-8 minute run on the Ring in the CLK63 BS, that is irrelevant when trying to compare times because I have no idea how fast Bernd Schneider can drive other cars on the Ring.....like a M3, GT3, GT-R, etc, etc. Also, why do you think there is fuss about Nissan's GT-R laptime around the Ring?? It's because no other independent tester can seem to come close to the time claimed by Nissan.

If you're objective about things (rather than see things as a passionate CLK63 BS owner), you'll appreciate that Sport Auto is the best published source of independent tested laptimes for cars around the Ring because they do use the same driver all the time. Horst von Saurma doesn't have to be as good as Bernd Schneider.......he just has to drive all the cars so driver skill is taken out of the list of variables when looking at laptimes of various cars. It's not perfect, because these tests are done obviously on different days, but it sure is better than looking at times claimed by manufacturers and making comparisons.

The use of R-compounds on some cars and not others is also not ideal in making comparisons, but Sport Auto tests cars that are provided to them by manufacturers (like any other car magazine). Some cars do come from the factory in Europe with R-compounds, so that is what they test.

LZH

Glad you like your subscription. I trust professional drivers and factory specs.

PC Valkyrie

hahaha......don't have a subscription....I don't even read German.

Yes, trust your "factory specs" from a C&D article......
"...with Mercedes officials suggesting as quick as 7:45....."

On a different note, Mr. Horst von Saurma and Sport Auto has just tested the SL65 AMG Black Series on the Ring as well. I made a thread about it in the SL65 BS forums. Have a read if you're interested:
https://mbworld.org/forums/sl65-amg-...-lap-time.html


Finally, apologies for taking this C63 thread a bit off topic. The results clearly show improvement from one C-AMG generation to the next. And yes, the S5 (4.2L V8 quattro version) was a big disspointment for me too.

DaGS1800

+1

LOL

LZH

My point is; while Saurmas times are good for comparison between different vehicles, they are not a good representation nor a true measure of the vehicles maximum performance.

AMGC60-3

Bernd Schneider is amazing, I have met him and Klaus Ludwig on several occasions at the "Ring".Got to see them both while in the AMG pits testing and running laps for the DTM.

qship5

R Comps and KW V3s on the C63 and it is below 8 minutes for sure!

C43AMG

+1...amazing drivers , nice people.

yooker

Honda CBR1000RR does it in 8:12

LZH

Dude, you need to quit trying so hard.

hooleyboy

I'm a bit late to the party but, I think the CLK BS could do it in 7.45 Its got good suspension from those KW coilovers in disguise.

lyotomachida

Compare Saurma's time with different vehicles too. He seems to be about 15-20 seconds slower than what the best times for each vehicle was. For example the guy gets much slower time with LP 560-4 then some cars that it should be easily. And the C63 is not the easiest car to drive around the track.