callmiro

Here you go......and yes i believe everything in that ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krHUE3c0he8

Last time i checked the Brand was built on racing and enthusiasts taking their cars to the limits....hence "THE RACE" commercial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMcmu-YlMLs

LZH: You should be standing up and for the Brand's quality and not shoot down an enthusiast who made it his career to improve all aspects of a sensational car which we all respect and drive with passion....

LZH

That's just the point....perhaps he should have modified the transmission after giving the car an additional ~150bhp. The Black Series only has roughly 50 more hp and the engineers at the Performance Studio deemed it necessary to outfit it with additional oil, steering and transmission coolers becasue they DESIGNED it to be a track vehicle and be able to withstand the tolerences associated with track duty without puking burnt trans fluid all over the ground.

LZH

LOL - first of all regarding your "RACE" video...At no point was the C63 featured in that video....but the SLR was. LOL. Nice try.

And the video of the C63 doing burnouts....again, nice try but that was a STOCK C63. Not one with ~600bhp. And I serously doubt AMG would ever advocate any "responsible" owner doing

Quote:

Originally Posted by C63 Guy

literally hundreds of smoky brake-stand burnouts

Lemme guess.....I bet you also think it's ok to drive your car through a plate glass window and not expect your airbags to deploy....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQpun_wTyu4

Or maybe since they did it on TV, any owner can do it and the damage should be covered under warranty....
LOL

And all G-Class owners should be able to drive through brick walls with no damage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7yRnq7uEXk

chief63

Where are you suppose to go 300KM/h? As far as I know these cars are sold outside Germany too. Considering the speed limits where I live, it should be illegal NOT to track these types of cars...

I do agree that if it's heavily modded, it's not really fair play but this car should be able to handle track days without having to change much more than brakes, tires and some suspension parts. Saying you can't race it under warranty it complete BS.

Any solutions to keep a cooler running transmission? I know of fluid but maybe there is more.

This one can even handle monster trucks (lol) http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/art.aspx

ADDED***
I saw the CLK DTM has a larger "transmission oil cooler", anybody knows of any options for the C63?

LZH

Man, not many lawyers in here or anyone with much experience with "personal responsibility"...

Here's a little story for ya. A long time ago when I first started racing, I had an instructor in the car with me. It was a VARA prepped car, convertable. I was doing about 140 through a long sweeper and the instructor motioned me into the pits. We came to a stop and he turned to me and said, "Are we really racing ?"
I said no.
I then said, "Just becasue you CAN go 140 through there, doesn't mean you should".
I asked why, I have a full cage....
He responded, "because if you loose it in that turn in this car, you will not walk away from it."

That gave me new understanding of "just becasue you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should"

A little COMMON SENSE goes a long way.

MikeG_C63_AMG

LZH

While I agree on numerous points you make in this thread, I feel you should let it go. Unless you own the particular dealership he plans to have his car repaired at under warranty what does it matter to you. I can’t visualize a situation where if his car is repaired under warranty it will affect you personally. Yes I 100% agree on the “personal responsibility” subject as it is constantly on the decline in our country and some people need to wise up.

Personally I feel if Josh can get his car repaired under warranty then good for him. I’m sure he is well aware of the repercussions of extensively modifying his car could possibly result in. In the end, it’s worth a try. It’s my belief regardless if he flashes the ECU to stock, along with returning his stock exhaust. His car is to extensively modified (Headers,Airbox,Pulley) for any tech to simply not notice. If he is unsuccessful he will have to pay out of his own pocket. But making a “stink” in repeated posts why he should just volunteer to pay for the repair isn’t appropriate either in this situation either.

callmiro

You make the most rediculous irrelevant comparisons....

The Race video shows that Mercedes was the first to win a car a race and has a legacy of racing victories and they only way you win races is when your parts don't fail

The whole reason why car makers have warranty's is because they know their parts will fail. End of story

This has nothing to do with you or who you pretend to know or name drop....

The dealership will make the call......

chief63

Why are you still complaining that's exactly my point, if you're going to go fast, go on a track, not public roads when you can endanger other people and possibly go to jail. This is exactly the reason that MB should not make an issue out of people tracking the "super cars" they say they make.

Also if your instructor stopped you it's because he felt you were driving over your limit, not because of the speed. He'll never stop you if he feels you're in control and comfortable with the speed. Hell all big racing schools would shut down if they kept thinking about the risks of driving fast.

The perfect example is one of my buddies who runs a racing cool and teaches. He'll be driving his car close to the max each time, even when it's not an official race. Why would he take the risk? Cause he knows he has the ability to.

Fast driving doesn't necessairly have to be unsafe driving.

clktoc63

Maybe it’s these scenarios that define Mercedes Benz; that justify the premium. I accidently damaged my windshield on my first Mercedes and the dealership wasn’t able to fix the damage. They did two things…replaced the windshield for free AND made me a lifelong customer.

Common sense says that with all C63 purchases Mercedes Benz takes into account X number of warranty claims at Y dollars that they will have to absorb. C63Guy entered the warranty pool like the rest of us. If he abused the car to the point that MB actually loses overall, that is their problem to solve. Charge more to cover the X and Y factors, or increase the quality. Heck, maybe we should reward him for the stress testing and pointing out potential failures so that they fortify the weak links as they continue to develop the car and new models.

All of that said, I’m a big advocate of personal responsibility and hate to see anyone taking advantage of the system. It simply comes down to whether or not one believes someone is taking advantage. If the Service Advisor doesn’t think so, neither do I. Also, per my previous post, I don’t think anyone would simply move forward on the mere assumption that their mods must have broken the transmission. Would you really do that LZH?

BTW, did we all forget about the AMG-360 videos? The C63 at the oval in Nevada as well as the drag strip. I loved those vids.

Carry on…

callmiro

AMG360 Drag Strip - C63

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbz7v9ry-JU

AMG360 HOT LAP - C63

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuvE8thSLso

C63 Guy

Thank you, Mike. I could not have said it any better, and I probably would have used the word **** a lot more. LoL.

As far as personal responsibility goes, I have no idea how my actions are perceived as trying to avoid this. My car malfunctioned, possibly due to my actions, possibly not, and I was 100% upfront with the dealer about the situation. He said he believes there's almost no way the mods could have caused it, and just to make the changes to avoid any overt attention from people like our "friend". I'm not claiming to be a victim in any way. I'd just like to get my car running again without taking out a loan.

Josh

emericr

There are valid comments on both sides and personal attacks (like you are a moron) will lead nowhere.
I believe we are all interested to see how the dealer will handle this request and we should all hope that it gets handled with due care i.e. some engineers will investigate the cause of the failure and in return make future cars better.
Whether it will be taken under warranty is really up to the dealer and MBUSA. Good luck Josh and keep us posted on the outcome.

rantarC63

There are a couple of things people do not seem to be thinking about. The first is that the warranty work is paid for by MBUSA and not the dealer. So it could be construed as fraud if the SA decides to omit material facts in his discussion with MB. I am sure many dealers make unnecessary repairs and claim them to be "warranty" items so as to get reimbursed by MB while trying to keep the customer happy. How you chose to represent your vehicle to a dealer or if you side with the SA who wants to keep things "quiet" is up to you. I agree with those that think one should be responsible for his own actions but that's just my opinion.

The second thing is that the OP widened his rear fenders and fitted substantially wider tires than stock. The abuse placed on the car combined with the wider tires only adds to the stress that the drivetrain is subjected to. Wider tires mean better grip but that translates to additional stress on all of the drivetrain components. With the stock 255's, the extra power is released in the form of slippage thereby relieving some stress; but fix much wider tires on the car and I would not be surprised to see some sort of failure after repeated and daily abuse.

Even though AMG has a racing heritage and even though that racing benefits the vehicle designs, the C63 is just not a race car. It is a high-performance street car, nothing more. It is naive to think that it can be driven on or as if on a race track and that it will not have any problems. Even race cars are prone to frequent breakdowns - that's reality.

LZH

Excellent post !!!
The fact that some of the idiots on here actually think their C63 is anything NEAR a race car just proves how many of them have actually driven REAL RACE cars.

LZH

Then perhaps you should have thought about that before modifying it and thrashing the ***** out of it. Cause guess what....you could have had the same amount of fun in stock form and kept your warranty intact. Over a thousand views for this thread...best of luck, Josh...keep us posted...LOL

jjb03

Wow.

bhamg

Sorry, I don't buy this line of reasoning for a second. I too remember those M-B ads that stated "That's why we gave it 451hp." They didn't say "380," they said "451." If I put on tires (which I will shortly) that give me a crack at putting 451hp down to the pavement, you better believe that I expect OE drivetrain components to stand up to that. This is the main reason I bought this car. GMAFB.

nrgy

I agree to an extent, as I put on a modest 265 tire in the rear. But we're also not talking about 265 or even 275s. I believe Josh's car is running 3xx width tires, something not possible without the extensive body work done to his car.

In anycase, I am curious to see what they find out. I think we all would like to know the limits of the tranny.

sjhugh

I’m taking the ‘girlie’ way out by sitting on the fence with this, there are some valid points to both arguments with a little bit of silliness thrown in. Performance cars and mods go hand in hand in my opinion, that’s what being an enthusiast is all about. How far you push it, well that’s a risk we take. Good luck Josh, it’s a nice car and I hope MB come to the party for you. It’s a great advert for the C63 in my opinion.

By the way, do you know yet if it’s the tranny that failed or is it something associated with it?

.

MB_Forever

Luke, although you present very valid points, and I agree with you on most of them, I just don't believe the failure was due to the so called abuse by Josh. I've personally seen random failures of 7-G trannies at my local dealership although they were mainly on the S63 and ML63.

Despite popular belief, Josh uses his car on the street (at least 99.99% of the time) as a high performance street car not as a race car. In fact, I believe he has only taken his car to the 1/4 mile track once and to a road course once - two times hardly qualifies as "over abuse" of his car. At the 1/4 mile track event, his tires literally did not grip at all. I actually happened to be at that specific event and have witnessed most of his runs in which he could not get a decent "grippy" launch. In comparison, Juicee63, who happen to have the much heavier CLS63, has almost always used extremely grippy (if not the grippiest) set of slicks (allowing him much more aggressive launches causing more of a strain on the tranny) and has taken his car to numerous road courses and a LOT of 1/4 mile tracks with literally thousands of hard abusive launches and runs over the years while driving the car daily (as a daily vehicle), has not experienced a single issue with his tranny what so ever. Moreover, there are at least 3 MHP C63s and one RennTech C63 with more power than Josh's car that have endured a lot more 1/4 mile "abuse" with very sticky drag radials, and have not had a single tranny issue either not to mention they've been tracked for a lot longer time than Josh's car. Also, Rick's CLS63, which is pushing 612+ whp on NOS in a much heavier platform with much stickier tires and a ton more 1/4 mile track "abuse", has not had any problems either. I can also think of at least two 560 whp E63s with drag radials and a bunch of track miles over the past two years with no tranny issues either. This leaves only the "street abuse" issue, which is mainly smashing the gas pedal from 0 to 100... or 120.... or very rarely to 160 mph (if enough road and conditions allow) from time to time; some could call that abuse while others could call it spirited driving, which in my opinion, should be expected with a high performance street car especially when driven directly on everyday streets.

Josh, I certainly hope you can get to the bottom of this and get your car repaired and back on track as soon as possible. Good luck and please keep us all updated

C63 Guy

I can't believe I'm about to go here, but...

Ok, I get it now. Your Black Series is a REAL race car, and the C63 is not. I guess that entitlement comes along with the $80k premium you paid for a car with the same motor, trans, brakes, front suspension, seats, LSD, etc, etc as my car. I never claimed to have a REAL RACE CAR, and truthfully, unless you've got a gutted interior, racing seats, 5 point harnesses, a full cage, track wheels, a kill switch, a fuel cell, lexan windows, skinned doors, and a pile of data acquisition hardware (just to start with), I wouldn't exactly call the BS anything close to a real race car either. A great car? Definitely, no question about it. A great track car? Yes, that, too. But if you think it's a REAL RACE CAR off the dealer's floor, you're living in la-la land.

Are you upset because you paid more than double what we did for a car with the same drivetrain and need a way to prove yourself to be better than us lowly C-Class owners? Don't feel bad, you have those nice carbon bumper vents, decklid spoiler, diffuser, and interior trim, the differential cooler, and those sweet wheels and rockin' coilovers... That's got to be worth close to $80k, right?

Having been more than elbow deep in both these cars, I'm definitely qualified to tell you that the differences you're crowing about aren't exactly as material as you'd like us to believe. Call your BS a race car if it makes you happy, it doesn't make any difference to me because it's not my car, my ego, or my problem. Just like my transmission, mods, and driving style aren't really yours.

Also, if you think we're idiots (you did use the plural, so you're insulting several members, not just me) why do you even bother to check or post on this forum? Get over it. Find a hobby. Go walk your dog or something. Your angry tirades are really unnecessary and definitely unappreciated, and the vast majority of posts here confirm that.

Josh

PS- Mo, you have an incredible memory and attention to detail, my man. Bravo! You're mostly correct, except the car's been to 2 track days, not one. One of them was the Optima Invitational, which I didn't drive in, but my car was raced by a professional driver, who liked it a lot. lol. I guess I implied it was more by calling it "multiple". That's my bad.

Arclight338

HAMMERDOWN: EVOSPORT C63AMG. A 560 HP Super-Tuned Sedan. July 2009 European Car magazine. That cover says it all.

Now how is anyone asking about the condition of the problem car, stirring up the pot, when this car was featured on the cover of a magazine.

Personally, having raced, and spent a ton of money-I've knocked the rods out of a $40K Donovan Aluminum 410CID with less than 50 laps on it because of faulty rod bolts. Oh well, **** happens-no warranty implied. Want to race-go to pay. I didn't buy this car to mod it and run it to death. Kudos to those that do. At least we can know how much abuse parts can take. I don't think anyone short of being an AMG engineer can be ABSOLUTELY certain that ECU flashes can be done without leaving a trace of tampering. Transmissions that have been exposed to higher than normal loads usually show wear. You can't make me believe, that anyone would be able to reassemble that car without it looking like someone was up to something.

SEMA likes to keep bring up the Magnusson Moss Act. It isn't like a criminal case-you know" absolute proof". Its a civil thing. More like the proponderence of the evidence at hand. If AMG is smart enough to engineer it and produce it for sale all over the world-I'm sure they'll know how much abuse they are going to accept before they hand you the bill.And I'm sure they'll only take so much tampering.

No reason to get personal. Do as you wish with your car. Worst case, you'll be buying a $6K trans + labor and other parts. Want to play- be ready to pay.

Being featured in a performance magazine -actually demonstrating smoky burnouts and then claiming the failure was a result of "normal" use- could be a case of fraud.

juicee63

The AMG academy teaches us , advocates, markets this line as A PERFORMANCE VEHICLE.

We go around ovals at 150 mph, we drag race, we do a road course.

Not too long ago at an AMG event a brand spanking new AMG E63 hit the wall at Fontana at 120 mph.... I am certain the driver that "lost it" did not pay for the repair(total).

There are many issues at hand.

Luke you make some good points but your name calling seems a bit irrational.
Why attack the op? Could you imagine if your warranty was voided because the tint you used on your Black Series was found to have caused a transmission failure?

Anything is possible, and there is enough evidence suggesting this failure happens whether Josh's car was stock or customized from Evosport.

Relax Josh is an adult , he is not hurting your future warranty claims by getting his car fixed. AMG needs the cars to handle the image they market period.

C63 Guy

So, I have to make an apology to LZH:

It was inappropriate of me to call you a "judgemental *****" and a "complete douchebag". I was rather taken aback and hurt by being called an idiot, a jerkoff and a liar by someone that doesn't know me in any way and I responded poorly.

I generally try to engender good will, provide positive feedback, and entertain others on the forum and that response to your post was a major lapse on my part. Your motives are your own and really shouldn't affect me the way they did. But they did, and I took offense and I apologize for the name calling.

Josh

LZH

My quote above was meant for the guy who continues to brin up the stupid MB RACE video....and actually, I think the BS is only suited for long fast tracks. I've done both and it's FAR from a true racing car. A real race car only needs to change aero and gears for different tracks...So, I guess we agree on that.