LZH

I really don't think Evosport cares much at all...it's not like they are making a ton of $$ reselling PC tunes....and believe it or not, the percentage of sales generated from these forums is very small considering their total revenues.

Mr. Vanos

Of course you can, so long as it's not complete misinformation and untruths!

LZH

Oh come on....Because everything posted on here is 100% accurate and true??? As "founder and administrator" of this forum....With all due respect, if that is the precedent you want to set, then I suggest you start holding your sponsors like PC to the same high standard you hold the regular members to.

Sincity

Why does he even care unless he is a distrubtor of Cargraphic products in AUS or of similar capacity. But, from what he has posted (source of replica header) it doesn't seem like it.

transferred

Yea, this is almost unbelievable....I've seen their name mentioned negatively a lot of times but wasn't quite ready to jump aboard the hatewagon but this latest episode will ensure Powerchip never seems a dime of my money...

-Rob

badblackbenz550

haha good jobs lets see if this will last

Sincity

But I have to thank Wayne. I made contact with the manufacturer in Taiwan and they are in the process of getting a distrubutor setup in the US and we will soon know how much we can get these for. Not sure if they are made in Taiwan or China. Doesn't matter to me as long as the welds and stainless steel they use is of the same grade as what MHP or MBH uses.

_AMG_

I think you guys should read this.

http://www.hptuners.com/pressreleases.php

HP TUNERS TAKES ACTION
HP Tuners LLC commenced a proceeding in the Federal Court of Australia on June 9th, 2006 against Powerchip Australia Pty Ltd claiming copyright infringement and breach of end user license agreement. That proceeding was settled between the parties and on June 21st, 2006 the Federal Court made orders by consent to the effect that Powerchip Australia Pty Ltd be restrained from infringing HP Tuners copyright and breaching HP Tuners end user license agreement, that it return all HP Tuners products in its possession to HP Tuners and that it pay HP Tuners an agreed sum for costs. HP Tuners has many software and hardware protection measures in place to protect its products, and will continue to actively pursue those who deliberately or blatantly infringe against the company in future.

RNS-11Z

i hope only a positive effect comes out from this thread.

h.

brad @ evosport

It's not that.

It is the simple fact that the product that they give us works. In large part it is tuned specifically for our stages/mods. We have worked with PC for 8+ years and in that time built a lot of tunes. It would take a long time to replicate that - it is not easy.

Net/net - why would it matter to the customer if the tune they get is from PC if they buy it from us? They are not dealing with PC and would never have to be put in this situation.

I am a bit taken back by some of the situation. However, I will say 100% that I agree that replica/copy cat products should never be allowed or promoted on this or any other site. All they do is hurt the industry and thereby the consumer - as it will cut down on the amount of money that companies like evosport spend. Just think, especially in times like these, R&D is expensive. If we don't get return on our development as someone copies it overseas with no overhead costs (ie: no R&D costs), then why would we continue the same cycle. So in the end, the consumer is hurt as there is no innovation.

Thanks
Brad

RNS-11Z

As a business owner myself, i totally understand and agree with what you are saying. I dont believe any one should stop dealing with PC but be aware of the behaviour its own MD shows. I may well have been sold a replica product, but to be honest, in todays economy, money talks. And if the product is the same quality, people will pay the lesser amount if they are getting the same thing. As much as it hurts the industry it also benefits the industry by providing competition in regards to pricing. BUt no one can take away your companies achievements and people will know, if they want a great product with great rnd they will still come to you directly.

h.

bhamg

Really? You would buy this product over the two that you mentioned? Really? Pretty short-sighted.........IMHO.

MB_Forever

I agree with you 100% in regards to companies copying other company's products and I do believe such companies should NOT be allowed to sell those products on the forum.

In regards to Powerchip, I think their PR campaign has been going down hill big time for (at least) the past year or so. Many people have not only been unhappy with their products, but with their customer service as well - an area they should've mastered a long time ago especially for a company that's been in business for a good amount of time. And honestly, if they've treated customers this badly, it is not inconceivable that they may start treating you guys like that as well I think you should have a backup in terms of tuning just in case the ship goes down.

i_am_amused

downward pricing pressure due to competition helps the consumer and hurts industry (the manufacturer(s)) by driving down revenue. Competition also increases costs to industry by forcing industry to innovate or fall behind and lose market share. This innovation helps consumers, but at a cost of increased expense for industry. Catch-22, chicken-and-egg, etc.

bootlegged copies, unlicensed copies, fakes labeled as authentic, etc, hurt the manufacturer (creator) by depriving them of revenue

fakes can hurt the consumer by providing them with poor quality, and potentially dangerous, products.

replicas labeled as replicas seem to be just a hazard of doing business, like paying taxes. I've never read a post by someone b!tching about replica wheels being unfair to manufacturers (i have read posts questioning their quality)

brad @ evosport

I hear you on the costs, but if we were to just copy someone it would be a lot cheaper to sell things too. Then how would there ever be new products?

Cost of an item is comprised of the Material Cost + Labor + Overhead + Profit. We cannot compete on material or labor in the US as it is so much cheaper in China. And if our competitors have much lower overhead (as they are just copying and not designing/developing/testing/warrantying anything), then there is NO way to be price competitive. So the business model fails and companies like ours, Renntech, Kleeman, Cargraphic, Brabus, etc will all stop innovating.

See the bigger picture?

YES, I like a deal too. However, if you look at the issue past the one great deal you got today, it is a pretty large problem.

Thanks
Brad

_AMG_

There is a reason why products from China are cheap. In short, You get what you pay for.

SMP

You might want to re-phrase this part

MB_Forever

I understand what you're saying, but in regards to the statements in bold above, I don't think it is necessarily true that we'll be better off if companies start making replica products of other companies' work (at least not for the long run).

Imagine this scenario: company X and company Y spend a lot of time on research and development to produce a few products that are safe, high quality, and gives a good boost in performance. Then a few companies enters the market, copies those products (same or lesser quality) and then sell them much cheaper to the consumer. Even though the consumer benefited this time around, the long-term effects maybe devastating because now look what happens the next around.... company X along with company Y, learn from what happened in the past, and so they start producing products without any research and development in order to compete with replicas. Now the consumer starts getting products that are not well researched or well tested so they themselves become the test bed for new products. And in the Mercedes world where parts and labor are so expensive, a few consumers will end up paying maybe a great deal of money.

EDIT: Brad beat me to it

MB_Forever

Not really.... although they may have many satisfied customers, I know of many unsatisfied as well. I have PMs, e-mails, and personal testimony as proof It's only lately that things started getting really bad for them

_AMG_

I have a feeling this is gonna be a long thread...

SMP

Read your post again, maybe this time you'll get it ....... hint: it's in contradiction of your answer to me.

MB_Forever

Got it.... just wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic

RNS-11Z

I know what you all mean in regards to copy products and etc. Hence why we have copy right laws and laws to stop fake items being made and etc.
I would like to know, what has me selling my headers got to do with Powerchip?

C_DirtyTwo

Powerchip's customer is right next to my dinner from last night, in the toilet. It's quite possibly some of the most ****tyy customer service I've had.

brad @ evosport

I only was involved as people brought up our company in the thread!

Thanks
Brad