I am Jeff

You don't want that to happen! You won't ever hear the end of his self proclaimed Factory Freak! Sorry Jon...I'm just messing with you.

ATL_MB

I think that this approach - never go to the dealer until something goes wrong - will ensure that your dealer does not look out for you. Fact is, your relationship with your dealer is like any other. If you want them to take care of you, you need to take care of them. A good customer is much more likely to be taken care of than some guy that just comes in to *****.

This is apparent in M-B's new towing policy for out of warranty cars. If you have had your car recently serviced at a dealer (past 18 months, I think), your tow is free. If not, M-B will now charge for it.

As another example, in Excellence magazine several months ago a guy wrote in to complain that his 911TT broke a timing chain just a few thousand miles out of warranty and ruined the engine. Clearly a manufacturing defect. He had the car regularly serviced at an independent shop b/c he thought the dealer charged too much. So, when the dealer could have made a case to the zone rep for a good customer to get the benefit of the doubt, they said, basically "Rules are rules. Its out of warranty - why don't you get your independent shop to fix it." This is an extreme case, but I really can't blame the dealer.

jvanbrecht

We had this argument over in the blown engine thread, while the act can protect you, it will not protect you from damage caused by any modifications. The ECU controls everything about your engine, changing the ECU will most definitely void the warranty on anything related to engine management, and engine performance, unless it can be proven that a defect was the cause.

Blown63

I am glad someone said something, I was concerned about that. But when talking about "service a" does it apply? If you go in for service can they turn around and say wtf? and void your warrenty just because you have headers and a ECU tune? Am i correct in saying that no, they cant dont that?

c32AMG-DTM

Right; agreed. Tuning any modern vehicle potentially throws the warranty for the entire engine and drivetrain out the window. Magnuson-Moss Act won't logically help much, since the ECU controls damn-near everything. Now, if you blow a motor, and the car is stock except for aftermarket wheels and swaybars - that's different; they can't rightfully deny the claim based on those modifications.

Blown motor, broken tranny, differential, etc. etc. MB can deny the claim, stating "increased output via a non-factory-authorized ECU tune resulted in the damages observed." Sure, you could hire a lawyer and fight back, but at what cost (time/hassle/expense)? And possibly (likely?) still lose. It's a calculated risk owners take, when modifying their vehicles during the factory warranty period.

jvanbrecht

Correct, they cannot void the warranty at all, even if you came in with a modified engine, modified ecu, modified everything, as you are not going in for a warranty repair job, rather just a plain old service.

When or if something does go wrong, under warranty they will look at the problem, then determine whether or not your modifications caused the problem (and sometimes they will try to do that regardless, so stand your ground). If they come to the conclusion that your modifications did indeed cause the problem, they will then reject the warranty claim, and ask you to pay for the repairs. Depending on the dealer, they may also ask you to pay for the diagnostic charges, but sometimes they won't.

SonnyakaPig

Honestly, in practice, I completely disagree with you. Sure, your points are logical and sometimes people may experience good service from a dealership, but that's not my reality... at all.

My only local dealer does not have any SA's who are knowledgeable or even slightly passionate about AMG's. There are no "cool" SA's to buddy up with. There is only one good man at my local dealership and he is the shop foreman and he knows his stuff and I respect him a great deal, but the SA's don't want me to talk to him, because basically when I come in (about 1-2 times a month) I have to deal with SA's who don't know cars and I just ask to speak with the only man there with real knowledge and passion.

Regarding the 911 TT guy, I think that Porsche dealership was wack as can be. They get paid for the work and the manufacturer fits the bill because it's the manufacturer who built the car and warranted it.

I had a 98' Chevy Tahoe that blew an engine right after the warranty expired. I took it to a local GM dealership (btw, I bought the car used in SoCal and the dealership that I took it to was in Norcal) and they got GM to give me a new motor (I don't know, maybe it was rebuilt), but I didn't pay a dime.

My dealership has the following attitude: customer is wrong until proven otherwise.

You know, there is another side to your perspective. When my Service A came time, I had most of the stuff already done, like oil change, in-cabin filter change, etc., so I didn't need a Service A. I asked my dealer to turn the "Service A" reminder message off and my douchebag of an SA told me that they would charge me for that because I didn't get a Service A from them. I disagreed and ultimately, they turned it off for free. But come on.

I'm just saying, I agree with you in theory. But, nowadays with the economy being what it is, dealerships should be more competitive with their service pricing. In fact, some MB dealerships make more from the Service departments than from car sales, so they are really service senters that sell cars. They shouldn't charge crazy high fees for simple stuff.

derspi

^^

Why would it be "wack" that the Porsche dealership didn't go out of their way to help a customer who they didn't make a dime off of? A business relationship works BOTH ways. When the car is technically (& legally) out of warranty, the dealership can't force Porsche to foot the bill - they have to put in a good word or "finesse" it so to speak. We're talking about some major work or a new engine in this case - you think Porsche will just pay the dealership for the work without a good reason/explanation?

I'm uncertain where you get your info from but for the most part, the service department is where a dealership makes most of its profit. Sales is the revenue generator but margins are fairly low.

SonnyakaPig

I said the same thing as you--the part I bolded.

I said the Porsche dealership is whack because if the engine failure was truly a manufacturing defect, then it shouldn't take that much finessing to get the manufacturer to repair the broken engine.

The dealership would get paid by the manufacturer to perform the repair, and if the problem with the engine wasn't the fault of the owner, then why wouldn't a repair center (i.e., dealership) try to get paid for doing work. Everyone wins: Porsche stands behind their manufacturing, dealership gets money to perform repairs and car owner gets car fixed and maybe becomes a loyal customer of the dealership that helped him.

SonnyakaPig

I got my information from W.I. Simonson Mercedes in Santa Monica, CA.

The salesman told me a little tip about getting good deals on cars from MB dealerships. It makes sense to me, so I'll pass it on.

According to this salesman, who doesn't work at that dealership anymore, W.I. Simonson used to be the type of dealership that favored selling fewer cars but each car sale generated high profits. As their service department increased in generating revenue for the dealership, a decision was made to change the trend of their style of selling cars (i.e., fewer cars sold but high prices, so higher profit margins).

Apparently, they decided to start selling more cars while accepting lower prices or lower profit margins because the service department was making them so much money.

So, when looking for a dealership to buy a car, it may be beneficial to find a dealership that has a very large and bustling service center, because they may be the kind of MB dealership that is okay with selling more cars, but with a lower markup from their cost.

Anyway, I think we've gone off topic.

Bottom line, I agree that it would be best to build a solid relationship with a MB dealership. But, sometimes you don't have that option. In that case, you have to do what you have to do.

derspi

Actually, ALL dealerships have been making most of their profit off servicing for a LONG time now - it's not a new business model and/or phenomenon. While having no background in car sales myself, I have many friends and clients who are - from salesman to SA all the way up to financial controller. They will all tell you the same thing - sell as many cars (sometimes at little to no profit) in the hopes that these customers will come back for servicing.

I see your point in regards to the Porsche dealer but, as I said earlier, this is where the business relationship comes in. Looking at it from the dealer's perspective - it just isn't worth it to go above and beyond to help out a, historically speaking, non-customer. Sure, if they were hard up for business then I can see how this may be a win-win situation but in the dealership's opinion it's probably not a good gamble seeing that this customer hasn't given them any business in the past and doesn't foresee that to change any time soon. This is a Porsche dealership reeking of money we're talking about here, not some out of the way, near bankrupt GM dealership.

It may be snotty, but business is business.

SonnyakaPig

Your points are valid. There may be a difference between a Porsche dealership and a GM dealership. (this is me slapping my face)

However, when I had the problem with the Tahoe, it was in 2001, so I'm not sure if they were near bankruptcy at the time.

derspi

Probably not but it could also be part of the reason for GM's eventual downfall - all of the out of warranty repair bills they were footing! How does it feel to have contributed to the downfall of one of America's oldest and biggest car corporations?! lol j/k

SonnyakaPig

I freaking bankrupted GM! hahahha

Jons95c36amg

From now on not going to waste my time with instigators.

propain

Lets do the next ATCO together. It will be fun.