C63 w/ P31 OE Tuned! Dyno w/ Video!
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From: NY
See Sig
I totally agree that this should be tested again in the real world post tuning (vbox, comparo, etc). The results were great and definitely dispell any truth to "no more power can be made through tuning", myths and beliefs. I have attached a dyno that compares a Regular C63 (xtyper) vs P31 C63 (DD GT3 RD), baseline vs ECU tune, running CA91 pump gas. What can be noted is the lowend Torque of the P31 is stronger tuned and untuned, attributed to light weight internal components (a personal theory). The "top end" is also what is expected of the P31 package. Less limitations to throttle mapping from AMG give the added power up top.
It has been proven that the P31 was underrated and producing more like 500 crank HP stock putting it side by side with an OE tuned non P31 C63. So with that knowledge many imaged there really couldn't be more more to gain.
Going by this tune and dyno and the statement of how the machine dyno's low your saying your standard tune brings the P31 to 535 crank HP? About 35 more HP than a standard Non P31 tuned C63? Same tune as you put on the Non P31 C63?
Should be putting down some amazing tune only numbers on the 1/4 if they translate to the track... Great..Now we need to add another variable to the records books "Fastest tune only P31"
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From: PNW
'15 VW GTI
I always thought there would be more power tuning a P31 to a tune. I thought that with the understanding that the P31 C63 was stock with 480 crank HP.
It has been proven that the P31 was underrated and producing more like 500 crank HP stock putting it side by side with an OE tuned non P31 C63. So with that knowledge many imaged there really couldn't be more more to gain.
Going by this tune and dyno and the statement of how the machine dyno's low your saying your standard tune brings the P31 to 535 crank HP? About 35 more HP than a standard Non P31 tuned C63? Same tune as you put on the Non P31 C63?
Should be putting down some amazing tune only numbers on the 1/4 if they translate to the track... Great..Now we need to add another variable to the records books "Fastest tune only P31"
It has been proven that the P31 was underrated and producing more like 500 crank HP stock putting it side by side with an OE tuned non P31 C63. So with that knowledge many imaged there really couldn't be more more to gain.
Going by this tune and dyno and the statement of how the machine dyno's low your saying your standard tune brings the P31 to 535 crank HP? About 35 more HP than a standard Non P31 tuned C63? Same tune as you put on the Non P31 C63?
Should be putting down some amazing tune only numbers on the 1/4 if they translate to the track... Great..Now we need to add another variable to the records books "Fastest tune only P31"
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From: Massachusetts
'14 911S (garage queen) '13 X3 (family hauler)
Looks like the max hp gain for the p31 tune is roughly 6hp over non-p31 tune.
Maybe that's the internals--honestly, 6hp at these levels is basically irrelevant, no?
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From: SoCal
2013 E63 AMG
That's just the peak horsepower difference. If you look across the power curves, you will see the P31 making noticeably better power, especially in the lower RPM ranges.
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From: PNW
'15 VW GTI
Just my $.02, but if I had a P31, I would only tune it if I got some headers...in which case I'd have to tune it anyway.
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'11 C63 w/ P31
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From: Massachusetts
'14 911S (garage queen) '13 X3 (family hauler)
), not sure about Xtyper's
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From: Philadelphia, PA
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
xtyper's car is actually making more power near redline than DD GT3 RD's, both post-tuning. Most all of the dyno runs (stock and modded) show an unusual oscillation around 6600 rpm, then smooth back out until around 7200 rpm (+/- a bit... eyeballing it). The oscillation coincides with a peak HP number for the P31 car - doesn't appear to also for xtyper's car, however.
What's interesting, is comparing the orange (xtyper tuned) and aqua blue (DD GT3 RD stock) dyno runs. The dynos suggest a meaningful advantage in HP and TQ, throughout the entire rpm range, for xtyper's car. Yet, head-to-head on the street, they experienced identical performance. Curious.
What's interesting, is comparing the orange (xtyper tuned) and aqua blue (DD GT3 RD stock) dyno runs. The dynos suggest a meaningful advantage in HP and TQ, throughout the entire rpm range, for xtyper's car. Yet, head-to-head on the street, they experienced identical performance. Curious.
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From: Desert
02 CLK 55 AMG,09 C63 loaded with P30
Enough of the dyno #s. Lets see some real world times. Its very likely that a tuned p31 c63 is faster then a tuned non p31 because of the different internals.
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From: NY
See Sig
Going by what DD said in his warning in the OP that this particular dyno reads low and that his baseline is more like 420. So if his baseline is 420 then im just adding the HP he says is lost by the low reading dyno.
The confusion part that im having is Xtypers dyno chart with a tune came in at 420 and DD's at 390ish yet they were side by side on the street. So on one hand DD's can say "Well thats because the dyno reads low" but on other hand that would make Xtypers results low as well...
So something is weird with the data. Why is the baseline P31 coming in so low? If its indeed acurate how did he stay side by side with a tuned non P31 with 30 more rwhp....
Also, still havent gotten an answer on if this is the standard C63 tune or a special tune for the P31. My guess from the lack of response is that this is a "better" tune tailored more for this application.
To much wacky data..... need real word results or both cars on a different dyno on the same day.
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'11 C63 w/ P31
Was driving around tonight, picked up my buddy who was in my car before the tune last night...and I definitely feel like there is more power, especially the torque. He also said he felt a good difference.
we shall find out soon
we shall find out soon
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From: Philadelphia, PA
2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
The confusion part that im having is Xtypers dyno chart with a tune came in at 420 and DD's at 390ish yet they were side by side on the street. So on one hand DD's can say "Well thats because the dyno reads low" but on other hand that would make Xtypers results low as well...
So something is weird with the data. Why is the baseline P31 coming in so low? If its indeed acurate how did he stay side by side with a tuned non P31 with 30 more rwhp....
So something is weird with the data. Why is the baseline P31 coming in so low? If its indeed acurate how did he stay side by side with a tuned non P31 with 30 more rwhp....
If you believe the real-world performance on the street, and assuming nearly equivalent weights of both vehicles when they met up... then something's inconsistent with the dyno results.
Either way, sounds like they'll meet up and roll them again in their current state, plus DD mentioned he's going to run some more VBOX runs, so we'll have some more good info to compare soon.
Gotta hand it to these guys, it's great of them to document everything and share it with the forums. Hat's off to them for that.
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From: Bellevue, WA
'10 C63 AMG P31, '88 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe, '78 Toyota FJ40, '10 Audi Q7 TDi
I think this thread (and testing) needs a mulligan. It just don't compute.
Last edited by cek; Mar 10, 2011 at 12:35 PM.
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From: Melbourne
(a)'12 C63 P/P, LSD, 19" m/spoke,comfort pack. (b)Astra SRI.
There is a lot of confusion in this thread.
Is there no-one on this forum that has an "in" with a M.B. Dealer/AMG etc, that can say FACTUALLY, where does the extra power from P31 come from.
I've heard SLS internals, ECU etc etc, but no-one seems to be able to say precisely how the increased power is obtained.
And of course, there are several other 6.3 variants with power going up around 380KW.....well what are the differences there.....camshafts, cylinder heads etc?
I've not had much experience with M.B. stuff, but a bit more with G.M. V8s, where it's common knowledge where the extra power comes from in the various engines.
Cheers, Pickles.
Is there no-one on this forum that has an "in" with a M.B. Dealer/AMG etc, that can say FACTUALLY, where does the extra power from P31 come from.
I've heard SLS internals, ECU etc etc, but no-one seems to be able to say precisely how the increased power is obtained.
And of course, there are several other 6.3 variants with power going up around 380KW.....well what are the differences there.....camshafts, cylinder heads etc?
I've not had much experience with M.B. stuff, but a bit more with G.M. V8s, where it's common knowledge where the extra power comes from in the various engines.
Cheers, Pickles.
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From: Colorado
2021 E63 S Sedan
There is a lot of confusion in this thread.
Is there no-one on this forum that has an "in" with a M.B. Dealer/AMG etc, that can say FACTUALLY, where does the extra power from P31 come from.
I've heard SLS internals, ECU etc etc, but no-one seems to be able to say precisely how the increased power is obtained.
And of course, there are several other 6.3 variants with power going up around 380KW.....well what are the differences there.....camshafts, cylinder heads etc?
I've not had much experience with M.B. stuff, but a bit more with G.M. V8s, where it's common knowledge where the extra power comes from in the various engines.
Cheers, Pickles.
Is there no-one on this forum that has an "in" with a M.B. Dealer/AMG etc, that can say FACTUALLY, where does the extra power from P31 come from.
I've heard SLS internals, ECU etc etc, but no-one seems to be able to say precisely how the increased power is obtained.
And of course, there are several other 6.3 variants with power going up around 380KW.....well what are the differences there.....camshafts, cylinder heads etc?
I've not had much experience with M.B. stuff, but a bit more with G.M. V8s, where it's common knowledge where the extra power comes from in the various engines.
Cheers, Pickles.
Again, I know you've probably heard this and just want the word out of the engineer's mouth. I am happy with what Cory has told me. I don't believe there is any other physical difference in the engines, other than the titanium internals.
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From: Miami Dade, FL
C63
I've asked this question before but no answer. If P31's can be tuned to make more power, than why can't all C63's be tuned to make as much power as a P31 that is tuned?
They are the same cars, no? Doesn't it all come down to maps in the ECU?
The octane is the same--91 octane.
They are the same cars, no? Doesn't it all come down to maps in the ECU?
The octane is the same--91 octane.
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From: Melbourne
(a)'12 C63 P/P, LSD, 19" m/spoke,comfort pack. (b)Astra SRI.
I know you're looking for documented, factual information here. Talking with tuners like Kleeman, the horsepower variances between different models with the 6.3 are ecu related, primarily. Then the air intakes and exhaust manifolds have different specs, increasing horsepower as well. The SLS internals increase rpm response, but negligible hp.
Again, I know you've probably heard this and just want the word out of the engineer's mouth. I am happy with what Cory has told me. I don't believe there is any other physical difference in the engines, other than the titanium internals.
Again, I know you've probably heard this and just want the word out of the engineer's mouth. I am happy with what Cory has told me. I don't believe there is any other physical difference in the engines, other than the titanium internals.
Cheers, Pickles.
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OE Tuning C63 AMG
There is a lot of confusion in this thread.
Is there no-one on this forum that has an "in" with a M.B. Dealer/AMG etc, that can say FACTUALLY, where does the extra power from P31 come from.
I've heard SLS internals, ECU etc etc, but no-one seems to be able to say precisely how the increased power is obtained.
And of course, there are several other 6.3 variants with power going up around 380KW.....well what are the differences there.....camshafts, cylinder heads etc?
I've not had much experience with M.B. stuff, but a bit more with G.M. V8s, where it's common knowledge where the extra power comes from in the various engines.
Cheers, Pickles.
Is there no-one on this forum that has an "in" with a M.B. Dealer/AMG etc, that can say FACTUALLY, where does the extra power from P31 come from.
I've heard SLS internals, ECU etc etc, but no-one seems to be able to say precisely how the increased power is obtained.
And of course, there are several other 6.3 variants with power going up around 380KW.....well what are the differences there.....camshafts, cylinder heads etc?
I've not had much experience with M.B. stuff, but a bit more with G.M. V8s, where it's common knowledge where the extra power comes from in the various engines.
Cheers, Pickles.
