propain

The primaries are probably giving you more bottom end torque. Less HP up top though.

Come on the 12th with all the knowledge being passed around no question you will be running 11.4 as long as its not 80 degrees! lol

PetroC63

Really? I always thought it was the opposite, depending on the size
of the motor ofcourse.

xtyper

Oh no, don't tell me that! I just ordered MBH Headers because after all my research I concluded they were a great setup, with no real power sacrifice from the MHP's.

dodger63

Really?

propain

After your research you concluded mbh headers were as good as mhp? What research?

propain

Header primary size has direct effect on where torque peak occurs.

To big and you will lose torque on the bottom.

I never did the calcs for the perfect size header in the c63. This is an example of bigger isn't always better.

xtyper

None of the threads I found showed the MBH header gains to be materially less than those with the MHP headers, apples to apples (midpipes, tune, etc.).

Is there info out there I missed that suggests otherwise?

MBH motorsports

I think its fair to say a tune completely designed for a particular set of headers will give the best results. This is why we offer a tune for our header systems. We've spent many hours on the dyno to develop the tune that we think works best with our header systems. Also if you are not running a mid-section, you will leave some power on the table.

Best Regards
-Mike

xtyper

Exactly what I had concluded from my thread research on the two header setups. That when matched with optimal tunes and the same additional mods (midpipes, etc), both MBH and MHP headers produce similar gains.

dodger63

Dyno smyno we need better results..

Mbh/Mike you are exactly right you need to get petro your tune asap to prove that?? Send it to him if results don't get better takethe tune back if they do get better you gain ground for selling more matching combos.. He seems to be your front runner in the c63 section

MBH motorsports

I agree, If you look at anyother header set set up, they seem to run the best when matched with the makers tune. Granted any tuner can come up with a file that works. However when a company speeds countless hours on the dyno, tweaking every last aspect of the custom tune to work with their product. The results will be better.

MBH motorsports

If that is something he is interested in doing. Problem is. If his car has another file on it. We would need the ECU to be flashed back to stock before we can load our file on it. On another not we don't want any of our customers feeling like they are racing for us. Like they are now some promotional device we will use. It should always be about them and their car.

dodger63

Well we like our cars and race, and it proves the product we have a good day coming up on the 12th let's get it done...

PetroC63

They are great headers.

I love my set up, it's just not fully optimized.

propain

What is your feeling on his concern that the 2" is limiting on the C63?

Do you feel there is more room to go to a 3" without losing low end torque?

MBH motorsports

If you are making a 4 into 1 header and used 2" the whole way. I think that overkill. We did some testing on RARfinancial's car with his old setup. Which was a 2" 4 into 1 longtube header. We were able to beat the gains by a good 10whp and 15wtq throughout the RPM range. At 3600rmp's torque gain were close to 20 over the other header.

Since our primary tubes are not nearly as long as a standard 4 into 1 we are able to see good low end torque gains and high peak power with 2" primaries. With that said, If I was making a Tri-Y that looked like evosports or Burn's stainless Tri-Y's I would not use 2" pipe As the primary tubes on those style of tri-y's are longer.

On another not I'm not a huge fan of having a reducer close to the header flange. Why? The heads of a car shoot out flames. When a reduction pipe is use to transition a 2" port to something smaller, you get hot spots on the transition pipe. This can cause premature header failure as seen on the C63 header below

propain

Great reply. This should really put his mind at ease. I think the logical solution would be a matched tune for your headers. Hopefully he feels the same way.

The payoff will be getting him to an 11.4 and I think with another tune an 11.3 in the right conditions.

PetroC63

I'll try the tune.

Might as well give it a shot before I change hardware too.

What happens if I try your tune and the car runs an 11.5 @ 122
again in ideal conditions, I guess I'm out the tune charge?

I'll be at the track constantly and if the tune works as advertised you
better believe I will post my results for all to see. Seems like a win-win
situation for the both us. You can sell more tunes with your headers
and i'll be happy because the car is faster.

I can have the dealer flash my ECU back to stock.

propain

Considering my car ran an 11.53@122 in ideal conditions with an OE tune only im confident you can do MUCH better with another tune thats either more aggressive or just matched to your headers. You have way more mods that I do.

PetroC63

Agreed.

My car should be at least 2 to 3 tenths faster for the mods I have.

There are only two possibilities I can see:

1. Headers
2. Tune

If I match the tune to the headers than that pretty much rules
out all the possibilities but if I change to a different tune and
the car picks up nothing I'm back to square one.


I just thought of another possibility, I'm a crappy driver.

dodger63

Doubt it's the last one!

MBH motorsports

Whats not talk to much about, even at Dyno-Comp is how many Mercedes records they have had their hands in. From either writing the files them self or working on the files with Renntech's tuner. Or flat out building the whole car. Dyno-Comp has had their hand in many dragtimes record holding cars. The list is as followed. SL65 record, C55 record, G55 record, CLS63 record, SL600 record. All though the SL600 record that lasted years just fell to Clayton. I have to say he deff deserves it. Keep in mind all those car above (other than Rick's) set or broke the record in Arizona. Where the D/A is well in the +1000's

Before track records were even cared about on this forum. DC has set the benchmark for many of the Mercedes platforms.

Mike, I'll shoot you a PM.

Best Regards
-Mike

dodger63

Why are you listing records? G55 record? Naming all these records in segments were no one races doesn't really prove that much FYI,

MBH motorsports

The G55 is just on the list. We actually get a ton of G55 owners who want to race them. I do understand, the G55 is not a race car. In fact you have to be just about nuts to want to run that beast. I will say this. When I drove the G55 down the track. It was by far the funnest and scariest 1/4 mile run I've done. The reason why I posted it is because, Mike had mentioned that he just sees dyno numbers and no real track results. Thought it would be cool to share some track results for Mercedes we've done over the years. I don't want to take away from your thread. I hope you guys have a blast at your event.

dodger63

Who cares about the thread.. Yea mike needs to get down the track faster, I'm sure its not a hardware problem but I'd really love to see him put in different tune to see if he nets any better results.. Even a bad track day to me is a blast I prob. Won't even have my car and I promise I'll be just as excited to see the other guys do there thing and mike will get his 11.49 or better on the 12th,