Militia

First off, Jerry @ Eurocharged is a great guy to work with, and Cory is also very helpful!


I've had the Eurocharged tune for several months and quite frankly, I just need some more power now. The shop that I will be going to for the install said it'd be around a 12 hour job for the header install, is that approximate? From browsing around the forums, I understand the gains from installing the headers will be 20 HP (with an existing tune). Apart from the gain in power, I also want the car to be a little louder! I have, however, ruled out LTH's because this car is my DD and that much increase in sound will get obnoxious too fast for me. Any personal experiences on the sound from the Kleemann headers (short)? Does it change the exhaust note too much, or just increase it at WOT?

Do you recommend I purchase anything else, or would the headers package satisfy my quest for a slightly louder exhaust and the complimentary increase in HP?

GHAZAN

find a new shop...shouldn't be more than 5 hours for logs

tgoss

Headers are going to do the trick. The cool thing is you can almost do them in 2 stages: stock -> shorties -> long tubes. and feel significant gains down the road.

We have a C63 out here that went from Kleemann shorties and K2 tune (which the car was seriously fast then) to long tubes and it walks all over my stage two anchor all day.

The shop you are contemplating on doing the install is a bit ridiculous to charge 12 hours for the job. I would think 4-5 max would be ok.. Hell if it was Cory himself you could hang out and 2 hours later hear your beast spinning the rollers

Even Money

As it's been said, 5 hours max. You should really consider LTs. I drive them daily, 60mi, and have no issues. Been driving like that for 4 months...and with no cats. Cold starts are loud for sure, but idles down quickly. Obviously WOT is loud. When you crack the throttle it has a nice rumble. You can always install some silencers down the road if you really can't stand the noise.

AMS Performance

Keep in mind ... Kleemann headers are not true shorties, they are technically mid-tube logs. They are not direct bolt on and delete the primary exhaust flange. They have their own primary cats & downtube (which need to be welded in place).

They should make more than 20HP, probably closer to 30HP, but it won't be the full 50+ that long tubes provide. PLM style direct bolt on shorties make about 15HP/TQ @ wheels and those will take only 4-6 hours to install, but Kleemann's are a significantly superior design than the PLM so its important not to mix the two up (even though both are logs)

True shorty manifolds (such as our M113 manifolds), are a direct bolt on and require no modification to install. Typically those are only 4-6 hours for install, but there is a bit more work involved for these.

With that said, even so 12 hours is a bit ridiculous, perhaps 8-10 is more realistic. Occasionally on high labor jobs you can negotiate down the actual labor rate per hour which would be the equivalent of reducing the total hours, so if they don't budge on hours, try to get a lower labor rate. The savings will add up quickly.

Hope that helps,
AMS

Sincity

Book time to remove and install the stock exhaust manifolds is 5.2 for both banks and that includes dropping the mid-pipes. This is an average amount of time it takes and an experienced tech could do it in less time, but nonetheless you should pay 5.2 and not penalize the tech for his/her experience. Also add another 1.0 - 1.5 to cut the stock primary cat(s) and weld the Kleemann cat(s).

AMS: What is your opinion on adding a X-pipe to a K2 setup?

Militia

I think I might have to. They quoted me roughly $1,200 for the labor; that's more than what the headers are costing me.


That's good to know, I'll probably be going this route!


Sounds real good man, but I'm still afraid it'd be too loud for my taste.

Very helpful & informative post, thanks for taking the time to explain!



Nice! Did you already install yours? How're you liking them?


I'm glad I inquired here before pulling the trigger, $1,200 labor on $1,000 parts is indeed a bit confusing. I'll explore my options! Thank you guys for chiming in

Cory @ Kleemann

My best time installing C63 headers, inclusive of cutting/welding from start to finish is 4 hours (keep in mind, I've done a LOT of them). Someone who's never installed them before may require as much as 8 hours. 12 hours is a rip-off if you ask me, unless their technician is perhaps missing an arm.

Sincity

LOL

Militia: Not yet. I'm having them done 1st week of May.

NORTH 44 C63

Mine are going on next week. (Tech with all appendages) I had them Ceramic coated on the outside and XMC coated inside to help flow and reduce heat soak.

CELLryuu

You are in luck. I just came back from the shop getting my final adjustments on a Eurocharged tune, Keemann manifolds, downpipes and highflow cats. This set up will put a large dose of jack daniels into an already spiked punch.

My installation of the exhaust was $950. $750 for the install and about $200 for the welding. Is that over priced for the power gain???? YES! But, as a posted in another thread.....I giggled like a little girl all the way home from the shop. The engine sounds stock at idle, just a tad more throaty up to 3,000 to 3,500 rpm and you can really hear a difference above 4,000 rpm. Overall, the install was a pain in the a$$ but I am really happy over all. You can really feel the extra power. So, for $3000 total with Eurocharged Tune, Kleemann Exhaust and 80 extra horses (we havent dynoed yet but they feel confident in it having 530 horses now) I would say its a solid deal that doesnt annoy the S|-||T out of everyone.

And Jerry has a special tune for the Kleemann set up. He had a 10 hour dyno session with this set up to squeeze ever last ounce of power out of it.

btw, I had to go back and get some fine tunning because the exhaust was leaking a bit (try some locking nuts instead of the copper ones if you have problems) and I couldnt stand the noise. Makes me for sure that I dont even want to touch LTH!!!!!! 3-5 thousand dollars to make it sound like a pontiac firebird parked in an unmowed yard of a trailer park?

Cory @ Kleemann

Just to clear things up- KLEEMANN uses 100% factory exhaust manifold nuts ordered from our local MB dealer. These are copper prevailing torque (locking) nuts ($2.20 EACH- that's $35 bucks for a set of 16). I suggest never using anything other than these nuts (that's why we include these specific nuts in our header kits)- they will never back off the stud.

CELLryuu

+1

Im not sure what happened but apparently my situation was the first report of this, so use the nuts supplied with the kit as Cory said. I didnt supervise the install so I cant really comment any further. But we did go to some locking nuts per their recommendation and they said that they would honor any failure that may occur because of it.

Ill keep you posted if I have anything further.

Sincity

Hey North: The coating makes it look like a completely different product. Very nice.

Cory @ Kleemann

I'm glad to hear the installer sorted everything out for you, and you're enjoying the car! Looking forward to seeing your dyno sheet as well!

NORTH 44 C63

Thanks. They really do great work.

The claim is a 50 to 70% heat transfer reduction on the component for the ceramic and an 8 to 10% increase in flow from the XMC inside.

mthis

I installed LTH on my car on jack stands and it took me less then 12 HR lmao. Good luck and happy driving.

Sincity

Corey,

I'd imagine that one of the challenge that a first-time installer face is measuring/cutting/aligning and butt welding the K2 cat to the cut stock mid-pipe. Is it ok to install a Slip Joint Bellow (http://www.spdexhaust.com/pdfs/AccPDFs/Bellows.pdf) to facilitate the ease of installation and give a little flex due to engine movement? Or is there not enough lip on the driver side cat to slip this bellow onto?

Edit: I contacted SPD Exhaust and those bellows are a pricey $186 each! Ouch!

Sincity

I remember the thread. Do you or your friend have small hands?

mthis

Lmao yea my friend had to get his hands in there.
If I would have left the install to my friend to do, it would have been done in half the time it took me with his help.

James@ACG

Militia where are you located?

We will have some sound clips of a K2 C63 with an Akrapovic Exhaust...

Honestly if your concerned about sound volume, I would suggest the kleemann headers, or a LTH with Cats and the Akrapovic exhaust.

MBH tri y's with 300 cell cats, and Akrapovic in my opinion is the absolute ticket!

James@ACG