Jean Valjean

If you only have one small child and can forgive the transgressions of a little inconvenience, like the performance of the M3, but want a little more, I would act quickly and try to get into a BMW 1 Series M. There are only 400 or so planned for initial production. Theses should hold their value well. Other intriguing choice includes new M5, GTR, or Fiat 500 Abarth.

DuaneC63

If you're thinking about a Fiat Abarth, try this:

IAA-C63

The 1M caught my eye, but two issues: (a) probably too small for the wife to accept, and (b) I believe it's only available with a stick, whereas we need some form of automatic.

The new M5 and GT-R are definitely on my radar.

The Fiat is cute, but not our cup of tea.

khmergod

The dilemma we all have to face.

IAA-C63

I test drove a Panamera again today. It's a really nice car in many ways, but the fun factor doesn't really compare with the C63. Feels more like a luxury car than a performance car, so we've ruled out the Panamera.

On the other hand, the dealer does have a '09 911 Turbo with tiptronic and about 9,500 miles on it for about $110K. Would need to put the daughter in the back seat to see if she can tolerate it. If so, a test drive may be in order. And a plus is that it's AWD.

Infamouz

Sorry I'm not too familiar with the vast amount of tuners for the turbo line up... but what's been done to yours? Aside from performance, the aesthetic point of view looks impeccable!

Aside from my current C63 and E39 .... I'd have to say an Exiege S 260.. What a fun track car that would be

DuaneC63

Softronic Tune, Billet DV valves, Wevo motor mounts, 997 tranny mount, 997 shortshift kit. Speedtech cats/exhaust, Bilstein pss10, TRG adjustable monoball upper rear control arms (dogbones), TRG adjustable monoball rear toe links, Tarret drop links, H&R bars. I really promised I'd leave the car stock but that when out the window as soon as the CPO warranty ran out and I don't even track the thing.

A lotus would be a kick *** track car and fun to autocross since the tracks are so far away from here.

melmanc55

Wish I had my old 911 as my second. Should have never sold it. Great weekend car.

65number1

I have owned a C63 for a short period. And was disappointed---sold it off
I bought a 2005 CL65----- absolutely no replacement for looks,performance and engineering when owning a CL65. IMO the best AMG built

IAA-C63

Out of curiosity, why were you disappointed with the C63?

And with the CL65, are you able to get that power to the ground?

norb

Range Rover Sport S/C.

DuaneC63

I share your pain. My former 993

Jean Valjean

Is the 993 as cool as all the hype that many porschefiles rave about? It seems to be the true enthusiast Porsche. How does it compare to your 996?

DuaneC63

As Porsche continued to improve the original 911, it retained much of its sports car roots as opposed to the GT feeling of the 996 and 997 (excluding the GT2 and GT3 variants). Porsche never did a clean sheet of paper redesign of the original 1967 911. They just kept improving on the base chassis and kept many of its quirks. The 993 was not only the last of the air cooled but the last of the original design with lots of improvements. It retained the visceral feeling of the original car. Very light and nimble. And it smelt like a real car. Always the faint smell of burnt oil and hot exhaust. You knew when the heater was on because you could smell the exhaust system heat exchangers. The car had the original dash board layout since 1967. It still had hang pedals offset to the right of the driver, an HVAC system only the original designers could ever figure out how to work, real nice VDO gauges that cost a fortune, assorted switches and knobs added in strange and unusual places as more options became available. Interior light lifted off the original VW. Radio's (they should have called them Marconi's but that would be an insult to all Italians) sounded horrid. (The first thing I did with all my Porsche was to junk the stock sound system and put in aftermarket stuff.) The major redesign came with the 964 (the predecessor to the 993) but still retained the original chassis design. Gone was the torsion bar suspension in favor of proper coil over and struts. Gone was the rubbery Mack truck gear lever and ancient G15 tranny replaced by a proper short shifter mated to the G50 tranny mounted under a new tunnel down the center of the car to allow AWD. The 964 contained more new parts than any prior Porsche. In fact the majority of the parts in a 993 carried over from the 964. Unfortunately the 964 suffered from an AWD system more suitable for off-roading, less than attractive massive bumpers, and a very poor economy. Porsche almost went broke. Remember in 1990 Porsche was a tiny little company. Ford built as many F150 trucks in a day as Porsche built 911's in a year. Porsche's ill fated forays into 914 (designed as a VW) 924 (designed as an Audi) 928 (designed to replace the 911, (what a Titanic disaster that would have been) and the 944 and it cousins which weren't bad cars at the original price point. The 993 is so revered for many reason. Firstly it saved Porsche from extinction. It was both the zenith and end of the original 911. It had the best handling and the most power ever available. It was offered in many variants. The styling got rid of the ancient high fender VW lights (yes there was a prior slant nose 935 with pop up headlights but so few real ones were built. Most are modified base cars). The back end flares are massive but maintained the skinny waist line of the car. It had an optional AWD system that worked. The Turbo had also been also tamed by standard AWD. (The 996 turbo still used the 993 turbo motor with water cooled heads). The first time I drove the 996 it screamed designed in Japan (as it partially was). Porsche estimated if they had not turned to the Japanese for engineering/design/build support the 996 would have cost twice as much to build. The body was slab sided with no hips. The headlight assembly which held everything from the turn signal, fog lamps and running lamps was know as the broken egg design. The interior, while a very welcome logical layout was a bit too modern for the Porschenistas. (Cups holders in a Porsche..a true sign the end of the world is near). Hence the 996 did not last very long and early models had engine problems. Porsche quickly did a redesign as the 997 which is basically the same car with big rear flares, and a new front clip with headlights like the 993 and a more traditional interior. There was a rumor they were toying with the idea of getting rid of the christmas tree instrument panel and going back to VDO gauges but it was very cost prohibitive.

I bought my 996TT used as it cost less than a 993TT in the same condition/milage. I always thought turbo charging an aircooled motor was a recipe for disaster. (Porsche must have thought so too as most of their turbo race cars had water cooled heads). So with the water cooled heads I was more comfortable with the design. The Turbo also had the wide hips and traditional split case motor. However it had evolved into more of a GT car. Hence I have done substantial work on the suspension and have some bolt on engine mods (no such thing as too much HP) to get it back to the sport coupe it should be. It is more roomie and comfortable than my 993 (which was also modified). Due to it's weight, it will never handle like my 993. But it sure is fun to mash the loud pedal.

Porsche is a company willing to take chances and willing to fail, but when they succeed it is marvelous.

65number1

I felt with the C63 I overpaid for the car for what it offered..... One reason I also got my 65...... I also own a cls55 030 car...... With the c63 I felt like I was at the bottom of the totem pole on the AMG list.... The car never got noticed... It felt inside like it was not better material wise then a srt8.... There are so many c300's being giving out like candy for $399 a month I felt like it wasn't special....my cls55 felt quicker looks much better and cost me less....and it still looks like a $100k Benz.....my cl65 looks like a true exotic ...lowered with metallic black wheels...a true pillar less wide body supercar.... but I was disappointed in the driving and boring appearance factor of the C63....My CL65 is one of only 180 around and I get compliments everywhere it goes....I never see one. I feel special owning the car and it is insanely quick and has much much more quality in materials in it...I feel like I own something unique with this car....not another rental Benz or high school graduation present for a 18 year old.....and besides getting a $200k car for $40k is much better I realized then owning a $70k car car for $50k... The last model CL and cls has a timeless look...the new c class blends in with everything around it....making it a bad buy and not a cool car to own when there are legendary supercars like a CL65 or cls55 you can own for less money....a real no brainer.... My cls and cl65 can handle as well--- accelerate faster and look good doing it.....IMO.

norb

Porsche always changes the 911. Heck the 993 only lasted 3 years. So just because Porsche changed the 996 doesn't mean it was because they thought it was a failure. It actually outsold the 993 so the public loved it. And for a good reason, by the time the 993 came around, it was getting totally beaten in every performance category and if they didn't embrace modern car building ways, they would have gone bankrupt.

BTW the 993 weighs the same a 996, model for model.

black-clk500

Some good suggestions so far.
A couple other choices "outside the box"

CPO M6 convertible (or coupe, but the convertible may fill that empty void left by the sedan)
Or a 2005-2007 Bentley GT coupe (not sure about $ on the CPOs)

Both nice looking and fast and eye catching.
The Bentley is total baller IMO.

I believe both of these cars have bigger seats than the 911.
I have a young daughter and another one on the way and I looked at the 911, but there is no room in the back for car seats and the kids grow fast.

Thank God for AMG sedans!

Roswell

Beautiful 993 Duane!! And thanks for sharing your feedback/experience with the car as a friend of mine is in the market for one. You are right about the price of the 993 being so high & they are so rare to find.

ZephyrAMG

I gotta agree with you on a lot of levels....

Jean Valjean

+1 Duane. The 993 is truly a keeper. Many newer cars will be faster, more luxurious, and more reliable, but only some cars can achieve true cult status for true enthusiasts. A Ferrari 246 Dino was not even originally badged as a Ferrari, it was "only" a V6 Dino that was built to cater to the more common man, rather than the jet set Hollywood star or business tycoon, a poor-man's Ferrari, if you will. It was not a fast or superbly handling car by any measure in it's day, but it has always been considered " beautiful" growing into a true classic. Now they can change hands at 10 to 20 times the price when bought new. Sometimes, there is something special about a car that has little to do with performance data or production numbers. Some day I hope to drive a 993 Turbo, as it seems to truly be a special car.

DuaneC63

The 993 ran for 5 years. (1994 first European model to 1998 last Turbo model). Porsche could not produce them in the volume needed to make enough money for their model expansion plans as they had limited engine production capacity with the split case motor and as I stated were very expensive to build. A 996 motor is half the cost of a 993 motor due to both design and economies of scale. They also realized the aircooled motor could not keep up with ever more stringent smog regulations. The production of the Boxster (1997) was not only to widen the product line, but to prove market acceptance of the new water cooled motor. Most Boxsters were sold to individuals that had never owned or considered a Porsche. The concept of an aircooled engine was an enigma to most of the US public ("it's just a big VW engine"). One reason the 996 could outsell the 993 as production was no longer limited by engine production capacity. The main reason the 996 outsold the 993 was because of new first time buyers of the brand (one lesson learned from Boxster sales). Porsche also had subcontracted out the building of the water cooled motors to meet both Boxster and 996 demand. There were severe quality control problems with the new water cooled motors in the beginning. These have been rectified. Sales of the 996 to existing Porsche 911 owners however were a disappointing failure. (Hence the change to the more traditionally styled 997.) Also the many 996 Turbo, GT2 and GT3 variants became more avaliable as split case motors were no longer needed for the n/a 996. These variants sold very well to both new and existing Porsche owners.

As far as performance, on a road course a stock n/a 993 will eat a stock n/a 996 alive (provided the 996 engine does not blow up from oil starvation first. To save money on the 996 engine the dry sump system found on all previous 911's was deleted). I have plenty of first had experience. All variants of 993's in similar condition to the same variant of 996's sell for more on the used market. Go try and find a 993 Turbo S for the same price as a 996 Turbo S.

I agree, as I have previously stated, Porsche had no choice but to embrace more modern engineering, design and build techniques to survive and expand into this millennium. As you can see the split case motor is slowly being phased out (maybe completely one day). The 997.2 Turbo uses the new water cooled motor for the first time and the PDK tranny was designed only to work with the water cooled motor. If Chevy kept building the original 6 cylinder Corvette, there would be no Corvettes today.

DuaneC63

It is true the C63 or SLK55 are bottom of the current AMG performance pole. I bought mine barely used and thought it was a bargain. I get lots of looks and thumbs up when I drive it and chased on the freeway all the time. A CL65 is clearly a monster in the AMG line up and very rare, so I see your point in that respect.

IAA-C63

I personally consider the C63 to be an outright bargain, and exclusivity doesn't matter to me. I don't care if lots of people have the same car as me - the more the merrier.

But I can see that a CL65 may be something special, and getting one in great condition for only $40K may be an even better bargain than a new C63. Generally, I've found that really high end cars often depreciate quickly, even though they may have low miles on them.

IAA-C63

Since you're a Porsche expert, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the '09 911 Turbo I'm considering.

IAA-C63

I've also noticed that newer models aren't always more fun to drive than older ones. More advanced technology has benefits, but it can also isolate the driver from the car and take away from the driving experience.

For example, I had a circa 1997 BMW 3-series convertible (can't recall the exact year) which flexed noticably, but it was one of the best handling cars I've ever had, and more fun to drive than any of the current 3-series (though the M3 is a different ball game).