Nurburgring 8:13
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2011
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'11 C63, '22 GLS 63, Porsches, M3, M4
Are you kidding me? 8 second different, is like day and night, specially win or lose usually seperated by tenths of a second. It like two totally different class if you look at the times. There's no more excuses for the C63 anymore specially driven by the same driver and the same track. Btw, the M3 light/track version is alot faster then the standard M3.
8:05 BMW M3 E92 Horst von Saurma Sport Auto (12/2007)[54]
8:13 Mercedes-Benz_C63 AMG Horst von Saurma Sport Auto (2/2009)[58]
8:05 BMW M3 E92 Horst von Saurma Sport Auto (12/2007)[54]
8:13 Mercedes-Benz_C63 AMG Horst von Saurma Sport Auto (2/2009)[58]
And even if the M3 really is 1.6% faster on the track in the hands of a pro driver, I'm not sure that's a meaningful difference for a car enthusiast.
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: Canada
C55 AMG, 135i, 911 GT3, GLE43 AMG
Really? 
..... the point is: since when does an M3 come with R compound tires from the factory, with exception to the E46 CSL and the M3 GTS? 
..... It's just funny how you don't believe in factory times with their drivers and setup, but when Horst von Saurma changes the setup to R compound tires that's alright 
..... the point is: since when does an M3 come with R compound tires from the factory, with exception to the E46 CSL and the M3 GTS? ..... It's just funny how you don't believe in factory times with their drivers and setup, but when Horst von Saurma changes the setup to R compound tires that's alright What's your beef here? Not liking that your CLK63 BS didn't do as well you hoped in the Sport Auto Supertest (performed on Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires)?
And it's not about "not believing the factory drivers/setups". It's about using the same driver so that one HUGE variable is taken away when comparing different cars' laptimes around a track like the Ring.
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Joined: Mar 2008
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CLK63 Black Series
Because in Europe, there is the option of buying the M3 with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires straight from the factory. Sport Auto simply tests the cars the way the factory provides to them. They don't "add" or take away anything.
What's your beef here? Not liking that your CLK63 BS didn't do as well you hoped in the Sport Auto Supertest (performed on Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires)?
And it's not about "not believing the factory drivers/setups". It's about using the same driver so that one HUGE variable is taken away when comparing different cars' laptimes around a track like the Ring.
What's your beef here? Not liking that your CLK63 BS didn't do as well you hoped in the Sport Auto Supertest (performed on Pirelli P Zero Corsa tires)?
And it's not about "not believing the factory drivers/setups". It's about using the same driver so that one HUGE variable is taken away when comparing different cars' laptimes around a track like the Ring.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 440
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'11 C63, '22 GLS 63, Porsches, M3, M4
It seems that a key question is how much difference the tires make. If the difference is substantial, cars clearly need to be tested with similar or identical tires to be properly compared, regardless of which tires they come with from the factory. Does anyone have good data showing the difference in track times for different tires, given the same driver, car, track, etc.?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,068
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CLK63 Black Series
It seems that a key question is how much difference the tires make. If the difference is substantial, cars clearly need to be tested with similar or identical tires to be properly compared, regardless of which tires they come with from the factory. Does anyone have good data showing the difference in track times for different tires, given the same driver, car, track, etc.?
The most important thing is what you as the owner of the vehicle can wring out of the car when you take it to the track. Some cars have incredible lap times at the 'Ring driven by experienced drivers, mostly professionals. For instance, a GT3 RS. Up to a certain point, the car handles like a dream. But once you get close to the limit, or at the limit, it's a difficult car to drive unless you get paid. With all the marvelous engineering that went into that car, it's still rear engined and basic physics apply. One of the reason why " inferior" cars can keep up with it at the track when in the hands of a not so experienced driver. The weakest link in the package is still who's behind the wheel and not different equipment ran on the car. Money can buy you technology, but not talent.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 440
Likes: 1
'11 C63, '22 GLS 63, Porsches, M3, M4
Since tires are the only thing that connects the car to the road, the compound of which they are constructed of makes a big difference. But like I said earlier, those lap times are not to be taken too seriously. Whether they were conducted by the factory or any of the magazines. They are nothing more than a marketing tool for the manufacturers, a paycheck for whatever tester and provide bragging rights for the end user. It's all second hand information anyway.
The most important thing is what you as the owner of the vehicle can wring out of the car when you take it to the track. Some cars have incredible lap times at the 'Ring driven by experienced drivers, mostly professionals. For instance, a GT3 RS. Up to a certain point, the car handles like a dream. But once you get close to the limit, or at the limit, it's a difficult car to drive unless you get paid. With all the marvelous engineering that went into that car, it's still rear engined and basic physics apply. One of the reason why " inferior" cars can keep up with it at the track when in the hands of a not so experienced driver. The weakest link in the package is still who's behind the wheel and not different equipment ran on the car. Money can buy you technology, but not talent.
The most important thing is what you as the owner of the vehicle can wring out of the car when you take it to the track. Some cars have incredible lap times at the 'Ring driven by experienced drivers, mostly professionals. For instance, a GT3 RS. Up to a certain point, the car handles like a dream. But once you get close to the limit, or at the limit, it's a difficult car to drive unless you get paid. With all the marvelous engineering that went into that car, it's still rear engined and basic physics apply. One of the reason why " inferior" cars can keep up with it at the track when in the hands of a not so experienced driver. The weakest link in the package is still who's behind the wheel and not different equipment ran on the car. Money can buy you technology, but not talent.
