C63TT in the near future?
#28
MBWorld Fanatic!
Curves in performance and price is what MB seems to be fixed on now. I don't blame them one bit.
Currently AMG's lowest priced model performs way to close to their hallmark cars stock vs stock. Not good for sales. Dropping a TT in the C63 would have the same result. You want the performance of a TT then shell out another 30-40K.
Currently AMG's lowest priced model performs way to close to their hallmark cars stock vs stock. Not good for sales. Dropping a TT in the C63 would have the same result. You want the performance of a TT then shell out another 30-40K.
#29
My MB tech friend was just in Vancouver for training. He said there was mentions of the 5.5NA going into the C Class AMG. They wont be using turbos on it he explained.
He said the training mentioned that they would be focusing more on the agility and sportiness of the car. Maybe weight reductions?
He said the training mentioned that they would be focusing more on the agility and sportiness of the car. Maybe weight reductions?
#30
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My MB tech friend was just in Vancouver for training. He said there was mentions of the 5.5NA going into the C Class AMG. They wont be using turbos on it he explained.
He said the training mentioned that they would be focusing more on the agility and sportiness of the car. Maybe weight reductions?
He said the training mentioned that they would be focusing more on the agility and sportiness of the car. Maybe weight reductions?
#32
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2013 Chevy 427 Torch Red
I predict that the W205 C63 is about 300 pounds lighter and comes with the NA version of the new M157 motor with cylinder deactivation that was just introduced in the SLK 55. By then it will probably have direct injection, make about 450 horsepower and be good for 20 city and 28 highway.
I doubt this new motor was built for exclusive use in one model, especially the low production SLK.
I doubt this new motor was built for exclusive use in one model, especially the low production SLK.
#33
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I predict that the W205 C63 is about 300 pounds lighter and comes with the NA version of the new M157 motor with cylinder deactivation that was just introduced in the SLK 55. By then it will probably have direct injection, make about 450 horsepower and be good for 20 city and 28 highway.
I doubt this new motor was built for exclusive use in one model, especially the low production SLK.
I doubt this new motor was built for exclusive use in one model, especially the low production SLK.
#35
I do think it makes sense for MB to use the m157 for the 205 platfom C63 in 2014-2016. The engine would be 4 years old and ripe for a new chassis. The engine is an easy setup to make 3 power levels for regular C63's, PP-optioned cars, and a BS version if one was made.
#36
I predict that the W205 C63 is about 300 pounds lighter and comes with the NA version of the new M157 motor with cylinder deactivation that was just introduced in the SLK 55. By then it will probably have direct injection, make about 450 horsepower and be good for 20 city and 28 highway.
I doubt this new motor was built for exclusive use in one model, especially the low production SLK.
I doubt this new motor was built for exclusive use in one model, especially the low production SLK.
If the 3 types of C63's [regular, PP, BS] becomes a trend for AMG, then the NA 5.5L doesn't seem like the best choice of motor.
Obviously, weight reduction can even the scales; not only in performance, but also mpg.
#37
MBWorld Fanatic!
I can see that. The facelifted C63, especially the coupe, handles quite differently than the pre facelift cars. I can't say in terms of outright grip, but turn-in and mid corner stability is improved, without losing a single lb of weight. It'll be interesting to see what kind of tire wear penalty the suspension changes will incur.
#41
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...housing_sizing
A/R (Area/Radius) describes a geometric characteristic of all compressor and turbine housings. Technically, it is defined as:
the inlet (or, for compressor housings, the discharge) cross-sectional area divided by the radius from the turbo centerline to the centroid of that area (see Figure 2.).
compressor housing showing A/R characteristic
Figure 2. Illustration of compressor housing showing
A/R characteristic
The A/R parameter has different effects on the compressor and turbine performance, as outlined below.
Compressor A/R - Compressor performance is comparatively insensitive to changes in A/R. Larger A/R housings are sometimes used to optimize performance of low boost applications, and smaller A/R are used for high boost applications. However, as this influence of A/R on compressor performance is minor, there are not A/R options available for compressor housings.
Turbine A/R - Turbine performance is greatly affected by changing the A/R of the housing, as it is used to adjust the flow capacity of the turbine. Using a smaller A/R will increase the exhaust gas velocity into the turbine wheel. This provides increased turbine power at lower engine speeds, resulting in a quicker boost rise. However, a small A/R also causes the flow to enter the wheel more tangentially, which reduces the ultimate flow capacity of the turbine wheel. This will tend to increase exhaust backpressure and hence reduce the engine's ability to "breathe" effectively at high RPM, adversely affecting peak engine power.
Conversely, using a larger A/R will lower exhaust gas velocity, and delay boost rise. The flow in a larger A/R housing enters the wheel in a more radial fashion, increasing the wheel's effective flow capacity, resulting in lower backpressure and better power at higher engine speeds.
When deciding between A/R options, be realistic with the intended vehicle use and use the A/R to bias the performance toward the desired powerband characteristic.
Here's a simplistic look at comparing turbine housing geometry with different applications. By comparing different turbine housing A/R, it is often possible to determine the intended use of the system.
Imagine two 3.5L engines both using GT30R turbochargers. The only difference between the two engines is a different turbine housing A/R; otherwise the two engines are identical:
1. Engine #1 has turbine housing with an A/R of 0.63
2. Engine #2 has a turbine housing with an A/R of 1.06.
What can we infer about the intended use and the turbocharger matching for each engine?
Engine#1: This engine is using a smaller A/R turbine housing (0.63) thus biased more towards low-end torque and optimal boost response. Many would describe this as being more "fun" to drive on the street, as normal daily driving habits tend to favor transient response. However, at higher engine speeds, this smaller A/R housing will result in high back pressure, which can result in a loss of top end power. This type of engine performance is desirable for street applications where the low speed boost response and transient conditions are more important than top end power.
Engine #2: This engine is using a larger A/R turbine housing (1.06) and is biased towards peak horsepower, while sacrificing transient response and torque at very low engine speeds. The larger A/R turbine housing will continue to minimize backpressure at high rpm, to the benefit of engine peak power. On the other hand, this will also raise the engine speed at which the turbo can provide boost, increasing time to boost. The performance of Engine #2 is more desirable for racing applications than Engine #1 since Engine #2 will be operating at high engine speeds most of the time.
the inlet (or, for compressor housings, the discharge) cross-sectional area divided by the radius from the turbo centerline to the centroid of that area (see Figure 2.).
compressor housing showing A/R characteristic
Figure 2. Illustration of compressor housing showing
A/R characteristic
The A/R parameter has different effects on the compressor and turbine performance, as outlined below.
Compressor A/R - Compressor performance is comparatively insensitive to changes in A/R. Larger A/R housings are sometimes used to optimize performance of low boost applications, and smaller A/R are used for high boost applications. However, as this influence of A/R on compressor performance is minor, there are not A/R options available for compressor housings.
Turbine A/R - Turbine performance is greatly affected by changing the A/R of the housing, as it is used to adjust the flow capacity of the turbine. Using a smaller A/R will increase the exhaust gas velocity into the turbine wheel. This provides increased turbine power at lower engine speeds, resulting in a quicker boost rise. However, a small A/R also causes the flow to enter the wheel more tangentially, which reduces the ultimate flow capacity of the turbine wheel. This will tend to increase exhaust backpressure and hence reduce the engine's ability to "breathe" effectively at high RPM, adversely affecting peak engine power.
Conversely, using a larger A/R will lower exhaust gas velocity, and delay boost rise. The flow in a larger A/R housing enters the wheel in a more radial fashion, increasing the wheel's effective flow capacity, resulting in lower backpressure and better power at higher engine speeds.
When deciding between A/R options, be realistic with the intended vehicle use and use the A/R to bias the performance toward the desired powerband characteristic.
Here's a simplistic look at comparing turbine housing geometry with different applications. By comparing different turbine housing A/R, it is often possible to determine the intended use of the system.
Imagine two 3.5L engines both using GT30R turbochargers. The only difference between the two engines is a different turbine housing A/R; otherwise the two engines are identical:
1. Engine #1 has turbine housing with an A/R of 0.63
2. Engine #2 has a turbine housing with an A/R of 1.06.
What can we infer about the intended use and the turbocharger matching for each engine?
Engine#1: This engine is using a smaller A/R turbine housing (0.63) thus biased more towards low-end torque and optimal boost response. Many would describe this as being more "fun" to drive on the street, as normal daily driving habits tend to favor transient response. However, at higher engine speeds, this smaller A/R housing will result in high back pressure, which can result in a loss of top end power. This type of engine performance is desirable for street applications where the low speed boost response and transient conditions are more important than top end power.
Engine #2: This engine is using a larger A/R turbine housing (1.06) and is biased towards peak horsepower, while sacrificing transient response and torque at very low engine speeds. The larger A/R turbine housing will continue to minimize backpressure at high rpm, to the benefit of engine peak power. On the other hand, this will also raise the engine speed at which the turbo can provide boost, increasing time to boost. The performance of Engine #2 is more desirable for racing applications than Engine #1 since Engine #2 will be operating at high engine speeds most of the time.
Of course you can't tell, A/R Ratio is only .50.
#42
MBWorld Fanatic!
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...housing_sizing
Of course you can't tell, A/R Ratio is only .50.
Last edited by -=Hot|Ice=-; 11-05-2011 at 06:48 PM.
#43
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'03 E500
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...housing_sizing
Of course you can't tell, A/R Ratio is only .50.
#47
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Carlsson CM60 EX:C36AMG'96
hate to see the NA engines go I hate the a45 with it's 4cyl turbo for example with these turbo's AMG will lose it's soul sure they will be fast, but with a different feeling to it stupid emission rules
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
I know its a marketing thing to the call them 63's when they have 5.5 liter motors in them. Forced induction motors will alway make more power esp when modded (but with the turbo housing integrated into the exhaust manifold this is going to be expensive), but let's call them what they are .....5.5 bi turbos. If he C class doesn't get the biturbo motor, but just a NA 5.5, it will be a huge step down from the 6.3.
Last edited by DuaneC63; 06-29-2012 at 03:33 AM.
#49
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(a)'12 C63 P/P, LSD, 19" m/spoke,comfort pack. (b)Astra SRI.
I don't think anyone knows what will go into the "new" C63.....but whatever it is, I can't see the speed/performance of the car suffering.
I just hope that the new model is not dramatically faster than mine?
Cheers, Pickles.
I just hope that the new model is not dramatically faster than mine?
Cheers, Pickles.